private vs public tssaa needs to seperate

[Indian]

@Indian probably knows more about the different school sizes and locations than the rest of us. I would like to see what things would look like with a total public/private split and three classes in each division. You would still have six champions in football (3 private and 3 public). You might still have to combine A and AA in some sports. If you could come up with 5-6 team districts in each Division and Class, teams could still play across public/private lines during the regular season as out-of-district games to cut down on travel and continue established rivalries.

I don't like the "warnings" being thrown out on possible reduction of teams making the state and the like, when it would be unnecessary. It reminds me of the same propaganda that helped prevent a full split to begin with, scaring the small private schools into thinking they may have to play a Brentwood Academy etc in football.

 

Four classes would work well, across football basketball baseball and softball (down from six football playoff classes). With three you could have much wider ranges of school size within classes than now.

 

I have those lists of breakdowns by class, will post later.

[confuciuschang]

confucuis say...numbers don't lie.....http://murphyfair.com:8080/mfs/servlet/contentpagemfs?1,49,Public/Private%20Split

[Indian]

You could divide them in several different ways. What I prefer in football is four classes, using only football schools in the figuring, leaving out schools without football.

 

The groups based on the last school counts would be Class A, to Scotts Hill at 502; Class AA, to Giles County at 841; Class AAA to Columbia at 1306; Class AAAA to Blackman at 2381. That's a wide range for the Class A schools but the positive tradeoff is the private schools in Division II. With about 72 in each class, I think only 12 districts could be used. If you go with 8 regions, the average district is 9 teams and that can kill non district money games. If you go with 16 districts, it's about 4.5 teams, too small. 12 districts would require an extra week of playoffs, but with non-district games not counting in playoff standings, you could probably cut out week zero with little problem.

 

Four classes including non-football schools would be to Hampton at 429, to Crockett County at 782, to Knoxville West at 1244, and then to Blackman in AAAA.

 

Three classes, you could still go with 16 districts. With only football schools, Class A would go to Lewis County at 587. Class AA would go to Jackson Northside at 968, then Blackman.

 

With basketball schools included, go to Manassas at 544 in Class A, Class A to Tullahoma at 1081, then go to Blackman in AAA.

 

These are all very rough counts, and more recent enrollment figures would change things too.

[Indian]

One more quick possibility, 5 classes, football-only schools. There would likely be 8 regions with about 7 teams each on average-but this goes back to the travel problems that ended the five class group previously. Class 1A would go to East Robertson at 424, Class 2A to West Greene at 667, Class 3A to Macon County at 953, Class 4A to Gallatin at 1381.

[silverpie]

With respect to the soccer example, the real issue isn't a private/public one--it just looks that way because the privates all happen to be urban, and it's urban schools that have the huge advantage in soccer due to access to high-quality off-season play. This is every bit as true in AAA (which has been all-public with the brief exception of Knox Catholic) as in A-AA. Here are your boys' champions for those same years:

 

2014 Collierville or Franklin

2013 Franklin

2012 Brentwood

2011 Hardin Valley

2010 Hendersonville

2009 Farragut

2008 Brentwood

2007 Farragut

2006 Bearden

2005 Brentwood

2004 Farragut

2003 Farragut

2002 Bearden

 

And for girls:

 

2013 Houston

2012 Brentwood

2011 Franklin

2010 Houston

2009 Houston

2008 Siegel

2007 Bearden

2006 Bearden

2005 Collierville

2004 Houston

2003 Franklin

2002 Franklin

 

Only two from outside of just three counties (Shelby--and only the suburbs at that, Williamson, and Knox). And neither the 'Boro nor Hendersonville is exactly rural... heck, even going back all the way to the beginning of TSSAA soccer, all but four of the 56 boys' finalists in the largest class came from either a big 4 county or a large neighbor of Nashville (the exceptions were Oak Ridge, Dobyns-Bennett, Science Hill, and the only one to win it was Clarksville).

 

On the girls' side, again only five finalists in the largest/only class have come from outside the same seven counties (Oak Ridge, Sullivan South, Tullahoma, and twice by Dobyns-Bennett, including the only win).

 

[trebs]

I understand your point about urban/sub-urban schools.  In A-AA, it doesn't quite pan out.  Urban/sub-urban A-AA schools (including White House, Kingsbury, Signal Mtn. Hume Fogg, Murf. Central, Merrol Hyde and Paige) have not won a championship in 13 years.

[silverpie]

Point taken, but I think I should point out that several of your examples are skewed (Signal Mountain has only existed for six years, Central has only been a high school for four, and Kingsbury was a AAA school for all but four of those years). And the winners almost all come from two of the same three areas (Williamson and Knox--you don't have east Shelby represented, because all the privates in that area went D2) that dominate AAA--in other words, the likes of Jackson and Nashville-proper haven't been any more successful at one level than another.

[Indian]

Discussion of going back to five classes in football is supposed to be on the upcoming agenda, again. It would solve some problems-the sometimes confusing playoff format, multiplied teams not all moving up where they should be-but you'd have the same old problems with teams being spread out in regions and some having to cut out non-region rivalries due to lack of space on the schedules.

 

They would go by this fall's school sizes but based on the last count, cutoffs would be roughly 420, 650, 925 and 1350.

 

This seems like an attempt to avoid a full split. "See, we're doing something!"

[Solomon]

*wades into discussion*

 

How many privates are there currently playing football in D1?  I'm thinking something through and just wanted to know.

[Indian]

Knoxville Grace, Boyd-Buchanan, Silverdale, Chattanooga Grace, Goodpasture, MTCS, Clarksville Academy, Nashville Christian, Columbia Academy, Jackson Christian, Trinity Christian, CAK, Knoxville Catholic, Chattanooga Christian, Notre Dame, Lipscomb, CPA.

[ReitzFan]

So if the TSSAA moves 17  schools out of Division 1, everyone will be happy as a lark?

[tradertwo]

So if the TSSAA moves 17  schools out of Division 1, everyone will be happy as a lark?

pretty much...yeah.