OT: Youth Wrestling

[shaner10]

This is a little off topic from the norm of rankings and so forth but I'm a little curious.  There are many clubs in TN, GA, etc. that are focusing more on youth wrestling.  Is this a trend to grow the sport or simply build established programs?  I'm all for both.  The reason I ask is because I know of several high school programs that are really good and have weak/non-existent club programs or vice versa! There are several that have both, good HS and club.  I always hear many say it starts with a good feeder program. Is that really true? Or are there really coaches out there that can develop kids at the Middle School/HS level? I have two that wrestle and both started fairly early, one was 9 and the other was 4.  They love the sport of wrestling.  I grew up in a community that didn't have wrestling so I feel this is good for my kids because they get to choose their own path.  On the flip side I hear other coaches say "Just bring them to practice, if they want to compete then let them, if not then don't." I must say I agree with this because I don't want to push any sport on my kid.  We play multiple sports to break up the seasons. They will eventually figure out what they want to do.  So, lets look at the big picture.  Baseball has become a year round sport, does it take playing year round to be successful? I don't think so, but many parents believe it does, especially baseball.  I personally am not in that baseball boat.   I played collegially and turned out ok.  Not perfect but I get by.  So, lets get back to wrestling, for example; Cleveland is sending 2-4 teams to wrestle in the Dixie Duals.  My son from Nashville, TN will wrestle from a team out of GA.  Cleveland is a very good program that has a well established feeder program.  Why isn't Father Ryan sending a dual team? Do they put that much emphasis into their club program? If not why? Is it because of Div. II, Or simply Ryan truly believes they can coach kids up when they are older? All my questions are ones that i thought of.  This thread is by no means to bash another club.  It's simply a thread to get opinions on youth wrestling and their effect on future programs.  All feedback is welcome. Fire away!

[Nainten]

There are many clubs in TN, GA, etc. that are focusing more on youth wrestling.  Is this a trend to grow the sport or simply build established programs?

I hope it’s a trend to grow the sport.  A rising tide raises all boats. 

 

I always hear many say it starts with a good feeder program. Is that really true? Or are there really coaches out there that can develop kids at the Middle School/HS level? 

There are definitely talented coaches out there who can develop good wrestlers at the high school level, but that doesn’t in any way diminish the importance and benefits of a feeder program.  The data demonstrating the benefits of feeders is undeniable.  Feeder programs not only make the overall quality of HS wrestling better but they can bring more people into the sport of wrestling than high school programs do.  Feeder programs = GOOD!

 

Baseball has become a year round sport, does it take playing year round to be successful? I don't think so, but many parents believe it does, especially baseball.

This is the “when to specialize†question, if I understand it right.  In my mind the benefits of specializing at an elementary age are marginal and the potential for burnout is always there.  I tell kids and their parents that if you want to be part of a team and just enjoy wrestling with its highs, lows, and the occasional dramatic sports moment, then wrestle in-season, maintain a  form of strength and conditioning  year around, and enjoy other things off season.  If you are, however, committed to be the very best on the mat…then specialize as a freshman.  I have observed that a lot of kids do this anyway after their freshman year anyway.

 

Why isn't Father Ryan sending a dual team? Do they put that much emphasis into their club program? If not why? Is it because of Div. II, Or simply Ryan truly believes they can coach kids up when they are older?

I would not draw too many conclusions about the philosophy/approach of any program based on a snap shot of their schedule.  Nashville Catholic has historically been a very strong program.  Here is a somewhat rhetorical question:  Are there what may be considered elite level youth programs out there that do not have their kids compete at national level events each year?  

Edited December 19, 2014 by Nainten

[shaner10]

Great feedback. Thanks for posting.

[Sommers]

I have witnessed in many states (including Tn) that "on occasion" you can break into the top 10 D2+AAA/AA state even combined without an established feeder program, but if you want to remain in the top 10 and especially in the top 5 you must have a future pipeline of experienced middle schoolers along with decent HS coaches to bring them up to the next level.

[durdon]

There are many clubs in TN, GA, etc. that are focusing more on youth wrestling.  Is this a trend to grow the sport or simply build established programs?

I hope it’s a trend to grow the sport.  A rising tide raises all boats. 

I've been involved in the youth wrestling scene in TN for 7 years now and it has grown dramatically in TN since I've been involved but this year especially the amount of kids wrestling and the interest in youth wrestling in TN is double if not triple what it has ever been.  

 

I always hear many say it starts with a good feeder program. Is that really true? Or are there really coaches out there that can develop kids at the Middle School/HS level? 

There are definitely talented coaches out there who can develop good wrestlers at the high school level, but that doesn’t in any way diminish the importance and benefits of a feeder program.  The data demonstrating the benefits of feeders is undeniable.  Feeder programs not only make the overall quality of HS wrestling better but they can bring more people into the sport of wrestling than high school programs do.  Feeder programs = GOOD!

In all sports, feeder programs can be and are a difference maker for High Schools that put the effort into them.

Because of the specialization and the development of the club scene in all sports it gotten almost impossible to develop athletes once they enter high school or middle school if those athletes haven't participated extensively in that sports club scene.  Wrestling is actually further behind most sports as Basketball, Baseball, volleyball etc started strong club circuits much earlier than wrestling did in TN.   But, if there was no AAU club circuit in TN then yes, High School coaches would be able to still develop kids through their Middle and High School programs but the AAU Club circuit is now producing 6th graders that are more technically advanced than most high schoolers were just 8 years ago. 

 

Baseball has become a year round sport, does it take playing year round to be successful? I don't think so, but many parents believe it does, especially baseball.

This is the “when to specialize†question, if I understand it right.  In my mind the benefits of specializing at an elementary age are marginal and the potential for burnout is always there.  I tell kids and their parents that if you want to be part of a team and just enjoy wrestling with its highs, lows, and the occasional dramatic sports moment, then wrestle in-season, maintain a  form of strength and conditioning  year around, and enjoy other things off season.  If you are, however, committed to be the very best on the mat…then specialize as a freshman.  I have observed that a lot of kids do this anyway after their freshman year anyway.

 

I am not sure anyone knows that exact formula for individual success.. If you look at most of the top high school wrestlers in the state today, I think that you will find that most started training year round about 7th grade.

 

Why isn't Father Ryan sending a dual team? Do they put that much emphasis into their club program? If not why? Is it because of Div. II, Or simply Ryan truly believes they can coach kids up when they are older?

I would not draw too many conclusions about the philosophy/approach of any program based on a snap shot of their schedule.  Nashville Catholic has historically been a very strong program.  Here is a somewhat rhetorical question:  Are there what may be considered elite level youth programs out there that do not have their kids compete at national level events each year?  

 

Father Ryan is probably the worst example that you could have picked.  Nashville Catholic(father Ryan's feeder program) has historically sent their middle school team to more of the top tournaments than any other program in the state including Higher Calling.  Today, Father Ryan had a tn all star team at big middle school tourney in Union County Ky along with an team from Beach that also picked up some other top kids from TN..   Father Ryan is also sending as they have for a number of year a TN All Star team to Philo Electric which is one of the top 10 Middle school tourneys in the US.  They are even taking a couple of our Higher Calling wrestlers with them...   

 

This is really the first year that Higher Calling has taken any teams on the road to some of the bigger tournaments in the country.   This is our first trip to Dixie as a club, last year there were 2 TN teams at the Minion Dixie duals.   Memphis Elite and an all star team out of Nashville.  Memphis Elite is going back again this year and they are taking 2 teams, one 4-6 and one 7-8. They are going to have a lot of TN all star kids on their team.   We are taking 1 Higher Calling team in all 3 age groups but our teams are going to be just our club kids.   We have picked up a couple of kids in few weights but i think it is less than 4 kids for all 3 teams.  There is also supposed to be a â…ž middle school team out of that middle tn middle school conference made up of just their Middle school conference kids. I hope more teams will get on this bandwagon and start sending dual teams on the road...  This will dramatically improve youth wrestling in this state once we start sending kids on the road.

Edited December 21, 2014 by durdon

[cbg]

If you look at the past several years the schedule for Nashville Catholic is much the same. During the early part of the season NCW Middle School Team will wrestle dual matches against most of the teams in the HVAC League (MBA, Harding Academy, Lipscomb, Brentwood Academy, BGA, Ensworth, etc...) before going into the tournament schedule. The tournament schedule is as follows:

MBA Duals

North Harding (KY)

Ocoee Invitational

Cartersville Invitational (GA)

Battle of The Brave (Union County, KY)

Walton Verona Invitational (Northern KY but most teams from Ohio)This is the old Blue Devil Duals tournament out of Cincinnati, OH

Philo Electric (Zainesville, OH) Best in season middle school tournament in the country. NCW has only ever had one wrestler make the finals and they got killed in the finals.

TN AAU Region

TN AAU State

NHSCA Middle School Tournament (Virginia Beach, VA)

 

**In past years NCW has sent a team to the Dixie Duals and wrestled in the individual tournament. IMO, the dual tournament is great but you basically wrestle the same kids in the individual tournament that you faced in the duals. At the present time NCW is forced to forfeit most of the upper weights and gives up 30 points before a dual match begins. It's not fair to the other teams to attend a dual tournament and not have a full team. In the future if NCW returns to Dixie look for them to enter the duals or individual but not both tournaments.

 

April 1: For the wrestlers not participating in other sports, NCW turns it's focus to 100% Freestyle & Greco Roman during the Spring and Summer months. My best estimate would be that 90% of the NCW middle school wrestlers participate in multiple sports through the 8th grade so they only focus on wrestling a few months of the year.

Edited December 21, 2014 by cbg

[anotherback]

The thing about have youth programs is like any other sport it exposes more kids to the sport. Now unlike other sports where at an early age the smaller more coordinated kids can dominate then when they get passed by kids who just for the lack of a better way of putting it out grew them, wrestling you can remain small or grow bigger and if you put in the work will have success to some level. Kids can and do get passed and develope in highschool but many wrestlers who are good when they are young remain good. To me it's about getting the kids to overcome the fear of being beat by another person with nobody to blame. Taking responsibility for your own actions the earlier they can accept that is a plus few other sports can offer. Now like all sports you have parents with unreal expectations dreams of state titles and scholarships. They are missing the greatest thing about the sport. You man up get on the mat knowing you will lose and still giving your best. Your a winner. All of them. And every once in awhile, You beat someone you shouldn't cause you out manned him that time. It's about that time. That time.

[shaner10]

Thanks everyone for replying. I'm not partial to one club or another. Great feedback from everyone. I chose Father Ryan and Cleveland because they have been good over the years past and seem to take different approaches to building their programs. That's my opinion though. Higher calling(Cleveland feeder) seems to really build their (k-5) program where as Nashville Catholic doesn't really start hitting heavy until 5-8 grade! I just found it interesting that both are very good and take various approaches at being successful!