Coaching ethics question. Or am I just over thinking this?

[crazzyness]

Just a question I would like yall's opinions on. What would you think if your local HS coach who threw a kid 14 innings in about a 45 hour period?

 

Let's not call people names, throw accusations around, etc.

[Fourpointplay]

Most pitchers recover best on 4 days rest. Seems like this one went on 1 day of rest. One, don't think he could be very effective and two, it's not physically good for a pitcher to do that. Too much can go wrong. I think it would be wrong to throw a power pitcher on one day rest if they threw a full game.

[tradertwo]

Just a question I would like yall's opinions on. What would you think if your local HS coach who threw a kid 14 innings in about a 45 hour period?

 

Let's not call people names, throw accusations around, etc.

 

There's no situation worth a permanent injury. Muscles go through a "healing" process after strenuous use, and a two day cycle isn't enough time to complete it. Chances are that nothing negative comes of it, but in my opinion, it was reckless misuse of a kid who is placed in the coaches care and he should have known better.

 The above comment about a "power pitcher" has no bearing either...fastballs place less torque on the muscles and joints than "junk" pitches where the arm/hand is twisted to affect the ball spin rather than releasing in a natural motion. In a typical seven inning game, pitchers throw between 70 and 100 pitches...go out in the yard and lob 100 pitches to your kid and see if you're sore tomorrow...that's lactic acid inside the muscle and joint, preventing the strands from bunching smoothly (friction) when flexed, and increasing the probability of tearing fibers and/or ligaments where attached to the muscle.

 There's a reason that pitchers (even major leaguers, who are mature) have to have more than two days rest...it's too dangerous to risk.

Edited May 25, 2016 by tradertwo

[eyeintheskytn]

I think it's really dangerous to do this. I also hate when someone says that their kid has a "rubber arm". No, your kid cannot throw every day, sorry. The problem is that we've got a system in which the coaches reward for winning is greater than the risk for a kids injury, especially at the College level.

 

I think these coaches need to be held accountable for some of these decisions.

[thegreatwhite1]

Until the 1990s, pitchers threw on 3 days rest regularly. Going back beyond that,  pitchers threw on 2 days rest.  Society has gotten soft, and it's trickled down to sports (baseball, football, hockey, etc.). No one forces athletes to play.  EX: If a guy playing football in the NFL doesn't want to risk CTE, don't make millions.  Apply for a job at FedEx and make 50k a year like everyone else. Give up the millions and be a regular guy.  No one is pointing a gun at the players to do what they do.  Pitch or don't, simple as that. 

[catsbackr]

Only one in probably a million have a chance to make millions of dollars. So, what difference does it make if some kid throws on 1 or 2 days rest?

[tradertwo]

Until the 1990s, pitchers threw on 3 days rest regularly. Going back beyond that,  pitchers threw on 2 days rest.  Society has gotten soft, and it's trickled down to sports (baseball, football, hockey, etc.). No one forces athletes to play.  EX: If a guy playing football in the NFL doesn't want to risk CTE, don't make millions.  Apply for a job at FedEx and make 50k a year like everyone else. Give up the millions and be a regular guy.  No one is pointing a gun at the players to do what they do.  Pitch or don't, simple as that. 

 

Refer back to the original post...high school coach, and a kid...on one day rest,and I don't think that kid made a million to pitch either.

   Back when pitchers threw on two days rest, cigarettes were advertised as good for your health...society was segregated...and Adolph Hitler was a world leader.

[ksgovols]

Yeah.  If we're not smart enough to learn by our past mistakes we're destined to keep on repeating them.  The definition of insane.

 

I might agree that alot more goes into it than a one size fits all number of pitches or days rest, but I guarantee there's a bell curve out there somewhere that correlates injuries versus these parameters.  It's just smart to be safe with someone else's kids arm if you're a coach and if you're a parent that's got stars in their eyes, somebody else probably needs to make these decisions in your stead.  In this lose/lose scenario, prescribed innings and days rest and a post season format thats logical would seem to be in order.  I'd like to know how many #1's that threw on Monday in Regions and Friday in Substate.  We're just riding arms to get to state in Tennessee before we have to figure out who has a pitching staff instead of one arm.

[VeerCoach]

This topic is the reason I think the T$$AA needs to look at their post season baseball structure. Keeps the District Tournament Double Elimination, but make the Region a 4-team Double Elimination, Top 2 Go to Sectionals Best of 3, Then State needs to be pushed back and start on Wednesday and End on Saturday. Also I would shorten the regular season by 1 week and put in at least a 2 day rest period for pitchers that pitch more than 50 pitches. I know pitch count is hard to monitor, but not impossible.

[ksgovols]

I wouldn't shorten a season that's already too short.  Basketball boys and girls should play state at the same time like every other sport does and gain a week on the front end.  There's no set way that district baseball tournaments are run either.  In 9AA they kicked out the last place team in a 7 team district and then split into 2 3 team 'tournaments'?  The team that wins the 2/3 game turns around and plays the 1 seed and uses up 2 arms, then turns around and plays the team they beat the day before to use up a 3rd arm while the team they beat is going with their #2.  It's obvious to me that even the coaches in a district can be clueless when it comes to setting up a post season.  This district is tailor made for an 8 team tournament with one bye no matter how many sites you decide to play it.

 

That's before the state folks get their hands on it and screw it up further.  There's any number of ways to have double elimination tournaments at each level and limit pitch counts and days rest so that everybody is playing on the same level field and the kids arms are not on the line.  But TSSAA has to have the gonads to do what's right and the coaches that are winning with the old ways at kid's arms expense need to be willing to play the game the right way.

 

And it is a question of ethics.

Edited May 27, 2016 by ksgovols

[tradertwo]

There's a fine line when discussing reformatting the tourney. One great arm shouldn't carry an average team, and bunching the games into a small window of time in order to avoid teams ability to ride one or two pitchers pushes coaches into overusing the kids. I think that pitch counts with allotted mandatory rest periods would work best.