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Smyrna's coach should be ashamed


taketop
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word to the wise... If you don't see something, There is no purpose on giving your opinion on it.

Further, he wasn't DQ'd because of the slam. He was DQ'd because his coach told him not to wrestle (even though the trainer and the wrestler said he could continue). There are illegal holds and potential dangerous calls in many matches in tournament. If the wrestler can continue, the referee breaks them up and the match goes on. So to say that the Smyrna coach didn't cause this is 100% inaccurate.

 

Word to the wise.... if you're not the one who was slammed, don't make assumptions about ability to continue the match.  A body slam is illegal if the referee says it is illegal - simple as that.  I understand that it may be hard for some of you to believe, but a person sitting in the stands has no say in the call.  If a wrestler lifts his opponent off the mat, he is then responsible for placing him back on the mat without slamming him.  If he fails to do so, then any resulting  dq is on him, not on anyone else, regardless of what you wanted to happen.  I wish both wrestlers and their coaches well - time to move on. 

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And more to the original point. Has the Smyrna coach issued a statement apologizing for his decision or has he been reprimanded?

If the Coach truly believes he saw something the trainer missed and didn't believe his wrestler could go on and believed his safety was at risk  and truly believes in his decision then he has nothing to apologize for. I know the trainer said he cold go but Ive been coaching for almost 30 years and ive seen trainers more wrong than they are right.  They are basically making judgement calls and most times in 2 minutes or less , I  have a hard time ordering lunch in 2 minutes or less let alone access a possible serious injury.  just last year I had trainers telling me and my son he just pulled something  in his shoulder and just need physical therapy next Friday he goes under the knife to hopefully repair it. A few years Back I had a kid that if he went out of bounds he fell to the ground as if he got shot by a sniper ,  you really never know. I  feel bad for Russo and  Im not saying the Coach was right or wrong but in his eyes he was right.  As far as being reprimanded - for what?  He didn't break a rule. the only illegal thing was the slam,  deemed so by the ref.  What Administrator is going to reprimand a Coach making a personal decision for the safety of a student/athlete.  An unfortunate tragedy but no matter how much people complain and debate the issue, you cant go back in the past and change what has already been done. I congratulate Mr Russo on his ability to shake it off and continue wrestling to third.  A lesser man would have walked away from it all after he had blown a fit, swore, thrown head gear , kicked over a chair etc..  Russo made a mistake and then faced adversity and overcame with class.  Even though he is not a three timer that young man is going to go far in life

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If the Coach truly believes he saw something the trainer missed and didn't believe his wrestler could go on and believed his safety was at risk  and truly believes in his decision then he has nothing to apologize for. I know the trainer said he cold go but Ive been coaching for almost 30 years and ive seen trainers more wrong than they are right.  They are basically making judgement calls and most times in 2 minutes or less , I  have a hard time ordering lunch in 2 minutes or less let alone access a possible serious injury.  just last year I had trainers telling me and my son he just pulled something  in his shoulder and just need physical therapy next Friday he goes under the knife to hopefully repair it. A few years Back I had a kid that if he went out of bounds he fell to the ground as if he got shot by a sniper ,  you really never know. I  feel bad for Russo and  Im not saying the Coach was right or wrong but in his eyes he was right.  As far as being reprimanded - for what?  He didn't break a rule. the only illegal thing was the slam,  deemed so by the ref.  What Administrator is going to reprimand a Coach making a personal decision for the safety of a student/athlete.  An unfortunate tragedy but no matter how much people complain and debate the issue, you cant go back in the past and change what has already been done. I congratulate Mr Russo on his ability to shake it off and continue wrestling to third.  A lesser man would have walked away from it all after he had blown a fit, swore, thrown head gear , kicked over a chair etc..  Russo made a mistake and then faced adversity and overcame with class.  Even though he is not a three timer that young man is going to go far in life

 Coach, you miss the point, even if he truly thought his kid was hurt, the honorable thing to do is start-stop the match and Russo be allowed to continue to the quarters.

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Oh how we miss the day's of Tim Garrett (Overton) being injured with an illegal move against defending state champion John Crowley (Father Ryan) in the 1978 region finals.  Overton coach Ronnie Carter had official Joe Wiggins start and stop the match so that Crowley could win.  Pure class by both Tim Garrett and Ronnie Carter.

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 Coach, you miss the point, even if he truly thought his kid was hurt, the honorable thing to do is start-stop the match and Russo be allowed to continue to the quarters.

I agree.  But being devils advocate here.  He has only been coaching a short time ,  couple of years.  He may not have even realized he could do that.   I started Coaching when I was very young - Head coach at 20 and I can tell you there was a lot I had to learn throughout the years.  Its been almost 30 years and I still learn things each year that I didn't know or may have forgotten,  At this point the best thing we can hope for is  this is an experience everyone can learn from

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Oh how we miss the day's of Tim Garrett (Overton) being injured with an illegal move against defending state champion John Crowley (Father Ryan) in the 1978 region finals.  Overton coach Ronnie Carter had official Joe Wiggins start and stop the match so that Crowley could win.  Pure class by both Tim Garrett and Ronnie Carter.

Do we not create a ethical dilemma by rewarding a "superior" wrestler with a victory after injuring an opponent with an illegal move causing the "inferior" wrestler to not be able to continue competing? The rules allow for the injured wrestler the victory due to an ILLEGAL hold. I agree with Coach Kramer and his opinion. The Smyrna coach owes no one a apology. He, I am certain, did what he felt was best for his wrestler and made the decision to not continue wrestling. Russo responded in order and continued to wrestle for 3rd and completed the tournament in a honorable fashion. Kudos to him for not going down the wrong path as some others on this thread obviously would have. The move contrary to some opinions was an illegal slam. The correct call was made IMO.Had the rule not been broken the dilemma does not exist. Normally an injury resulting from an otherwise legal move does not penalize the non-injured wrestler by rule. Would have restarting the match in order to allow the offending wrestler a chance to move forward in the tournament despite injuring and therefore denying the injured wrestler the opportunity to move forward been a class move? No IMO, rewarding that becomes a slippery slope and denies the intent of the rule to be fulfilled.

Edited by BoroRef
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Do we not create a ethical dilemma by rewarding a "superior" wrestler with a victory after injuring an opponent with an illegal move causing the "inferior" wrestler to not be able to continue competing? The rules allow for the injured wrestler the victory due to an ILLEGAL hold. I agree with Coach Kramer and his opinion. The Smyrna coach owes no one a apology. He, I am certain, did what he felt was best for his wrestler and made the decision to not continue wrestling. Russo responded in order and continued to wrestle for 3rd and completed the tournament in a honorable fashion. Kudos to him for not going down the wrong path as some others on this thread obviously would have. The move contrary to some opinions was an illegal slam. The correct call was made IMO.Had the rule not been broken the dilemma does not exist. Normally an injury resulting from an otherwise legal move does not penalize the non-injured wrestler by rule. Would have restarting the match in order to allow the offending wrestler a chance to move forward in the tournament despite injuring and therefore denying the injured wrestler the opportunity to move forward been a class move? No IMO, rewarding that becomes a slippery slope and denies the intent of the rule to be fulfilled.

If he was injured then he should not have competed anymore.  It sure appears that the Coach saw it as a way to advance and take a win over a 2time defending state champ.  It is a morals and ethical situation.  Did he do the right thing?  It could have been dealt with easily by starting and then stopping match.  This same thing happened to a Wrestler at Regionals several years ago.  The opposing Coach had the kid get up and start then stop the match all due to an Illegal Slam Call, but wanted the better wrestler to advance.  This could and should have been handled the same way.

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If he was injured then he should not have competed anymore.  It sure appears that the Coach saw it as a way to advance and take a win over a 2time defending state champ.  It is a morals and ethical situation.  Did he do the right thing?  It could have been dealt with easily by starting and then stopping match.  This same thing happened to a Wrestler at Regionals several years ago.  The opposing Coach had the kid get up and start then stop the match all due to an Illegal Slam Call, but wanted the better wrestler to advance.  This could and should have been handled the same way.

So what you are saying is that Wrestler A slams Wrestler B illegally AND no matter what, he should get the win?

 

If your wrestler took that slam and you had to decide in 2 minutes if he was ok, you're saying that if you thought he couldn't continue, you would forfeit the match?  What if your wrestler was Russo or maybe Chalifoux and he was the one getting slammed?  Would you still have the same opinion?

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Do we not create a ethical dilemma by rewarding a "superior" wrestler with a victory after injuring an opponent with an illegal move causing the "inferior" wrestler to not be able to continue competing? The rules allow for the injured wrestler the victory due to an ILLEGAL hold. I agree with Coach Kramer and his opinion. The Smyrna coach owes no one a apology. He, I am certain, did what he felt was best for his wrestler and made the decision to not continue wrestling. Russo responded in order and continued to wrestle for 3rd and completed the tournament in a honorable fashion. Kudos to him for not going down the wrong path as some others on this thread obviously would have. The move contrary to some opinions was an illegal slam. The correct call was made IMO.Had the rule not been broken the dilemma does not exist. Normally an injury resulting from an otherwise legal move does not penalize the non-injured wrestler by rule. Would have restarting the match in order to allow the offending wrestler a chance to move forward in the tournament despite injuring and therefore denying the injured wrestler the opportunity to move forward been a class move? No IMO, rewarding that becomes a slippery slope and denies the intent of the rule to be fulfilled.

So is it better to have a double forfeit next round? I believe the intent of the rule is to keep wrestlers safe. If the move is illegal and doesn't injure the wrestler then 1 point is given for an illegal move. No big deal. If the wrestler is injured and can't continue, but the injured wrestler (and opposing coach) feel it was UNINTENTIONAL then why not let the other wrestler advance? I certainly don't see it as a slippery slope. Anyone that has wrestled long enough has, at one time or another, been guilty of an illegal move.

Edited by Newestguy
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So what you are saying is that Wrestler A slams Wrestler B illegally AND no matter what, he should get the win?

 

If your wrestler took that slam and you had to decide in 2 minutes if he was ok, you're saying that if you thought he couldn't continue, you would forfeit the match?  What if your wrestler was Russo or maybe Chalifoux and he was the one getting slammed?  Would you still have the same opinion?

Russo and Chalifoux would have kept wrestling no matter the injury or what the coach said.
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So what you are saying is that Wrestler A slams Wrestler B illegally AND no matter what, he should get the win?

 

If your wrestler took that slam and you had to decide in 2 minutes if he was ok, you're saying that if you thought he couldn't continue, you would forfeit the match?  What if your wrestler was Russo or maybe Chalifoux and he was the one getting slammed?  Would you still have the same opinion?

If your are able to go, then you go. If your hurt your hurt.  It is wrestling not basket weaveing.

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