Knox Catholic requests move to D2

[HTV]

9 hours ago, Gambler said:

I personally think this catholic situation shows something I wish TN had tried.  Leave the privates and public’s together for regular season then split for playoffs.  Privates could play each other in non conference for seeding.  Public schools get a close travel game and good gate.  Most public schools wouldn’t mind playing a private school if it didn’t impact the post season.  The game vs private school wouldn’t count toward seeding for public schools.  Now the travel issue is solved.  

The issue is that many of the publics won't play the privates in large part because of lack of gate the privates bring when the game is at the public's home stadium.  In the Knoxville area that is especially true.  The privates are just too small to bring many paying fans, and in this day and time every dollar counts.  

[atrisk]

I think private education is great. As stated I've had private education. I aiso believe most of the public educators do an outstanding job. Parents send their children to private schools for a number of reasons. We/they are not compelled to mix education philosophys, so why athelics? If a public wants to schedule a private, that's great. However 5he public schools should not be made to be a convenience to the privates. IMO this was done with the 1.8 rule. Public schools were made a convenience. 

[Indian]

How do you determine playoffs, together for regular season and split playoffs,  when some teams may be in a region with 3 or 4 private schools, some none.

[Booger]

3 hours ago, HTV said:

The issue is that many of the publics won't play the privates in large part because of lack of gate the privates bring when the game is at the public's home stadium.  In the Knoxville area that is especially true.  The privates are just too small to bring many paying fans, and in this day and time every dollar counts.  

gate money may b the case in Knoxville.....but you can b assurd that ant the case around the chattanooga area.....its all bout what happens on that scoreboard 

Booger just sayin 

[atrisk]

Indain, are you reasoning that the more privates a public plays the more of a disadvantage  (loses) they will incur? And yes, the scoreboard has alot to do with it. What's that telling us.

[Indian]

I'm reasoning there would be huge negative feedback if different teams had playoff routes thought to be too different. Remember in the z system, three regular season classes but some districts had more 2A, 4A, or 6A playoff teams than others, causing some coaches to demand it be ended.

[atrisk]

I don't remember the z system per se, bit I can see the difficulties there. Making everyone happy is never easy and mostly impossibe. Making everyone happy should not be the end result......... a level playing field should be the goal.

[Indian]

I think it could have worked had the process been more transparent. Some didn't seem to get at all how the playoff brackets were made though it really wasn't too tough. Teams were judged and placed statewide, not just in their own regions, and strength of schedule played a part which was a positive.

Edited January 15, 2018 by Indian

[osunut2]

41 minutes ago, Indian said:

I think it could have worked had the process been more transparent. Some didn't seem to get at all how the playoff brackets were made though it really wasn't too tough. Teams were judged and placed statewide, not just in their own regions, and strength of schedule played a part which was a positive.

Totally agree. There were elements of that system that were very promising. Unfortunately, TSSAA utilized an over-simplified ranking system (glorified spreadsheet) to determine playoff seeding, which was a disaster. The bastardized ranking system wasn't ideal, but what made it even worse was the muddied process of binning teams in each "fluid" quadrant.

I like the idea of non-homogeneous regions in order to reduce travel and minimize scheduling issues. The problem is how to fairly determine playoff seeding in that system. I don't think there is any way to avoid a "computer" ranking system, if we are going to utilize non-homogeneous regions. However, that ranking system has to weigh more than an opponent's strength (W's/L's). States like Ohio also assign value to an opponent's classification; for example, a win versus a 6A team is worth more than a win versus a 3A team. Therefore, the OHSAA ranking system is composed of two factors - quality of wins (based on an opponent's W/L record) and an opponent's classification.

http://ohsaa.org/sports/football/computerrankingsinfo

[HTV]

16 minutes ago, osunut2 said:

Totally agree. There were elements of that system that were very promising. Unfortunately, TSSAA utilized an over-simplified ranking system (glorified spreadsheet) to determine playoff seeding, which was a disaster. The bastardized ranking system wasn't ideal, but what made it even worse was the muddied process of binning teams in each "fluid" quadrant.

I like the idea of non-homogeneous regions in order to reduce travel and minimize scheduling issues. The problem is how to fairly determine playoff seeding in that system. I don't think there is any way to avoid a "computer" ranking system, if we are going to utilize non-homogeneous regions. However, that ranking system has to weigh more than an opponent's strength (W's/L's). States like Ohio also assign value to an opponent's classification; for example, a win versus a 6A team is worth more than a win versus a 3A team. Therefore, the OHSAA ranking system is composed of two factors - quality of wins (based on an opponent's W/L record) and an opponent's classification.

http://ohsaa.org/sports/football/computerrankingsinfo

The biggest issue with the Z plan was having your playoff seed, or even if you made the playoffs at all, determined by a team not even in your own classification.  Having 2 classifications in the same regular season "districts" just never made sense.  For instance Scott Cummings publicly talked about it several times, and many accused him as whining, but he was correct.  His school - a 5A school - was knocked out of a potential #1 seed a couple of times with a loss only to a 6A school,  Games against other classifications shouldn't have any effect on playoff qualification or seeding, IMO.  

[osunut2]

10 minutes ago, HTV said:

The biggest issue with the Z plan was having your playoff seed, or even if you made the playoffs at all, determined by a team not even in your own classification.  Having 2 classifications in the same regular season "districts" just never made sense.  For instance Scott Cummings publicly talked about it several times, and many accused him as whining, but he was correct.  His school - a 5A school - was knocked out of a potential #1 seed a couple of times with a loss only to a 6A school,  Games against other classifications shouldn't have any effect on playoff qualification or seeding, IMO.  

I agree, losing to a team in a higher classification shouldn't keep a team out of the playoffs, and we know that happened throughout the Z-plan era.

My biggest beef under the current 9(!) class system (and even the pre-2009 system) is that no two regions are created equal, which leads to multiple teams with losing records making the playoffs. Much of that could be remedied by simply reducing the number of classes, but I doubt we'll ever see T$$AA do that.

I think we can all agree that regardless of the system in place, it will never truly be "fair."

[HTV]

27 minutes ago, osunut2 said:

I agree, losing to a team in a higher classification shouldn't keep a team out of the playoffs, and we know that happened throughout the Z-plan era.

My biggest beef under the current 9(!) class system (and even the pre-2009 system) is that no two regions are created equal, which leads to multiple teams with losing records making the playoffs. Much of that could be remedied by simply reducing the number of classes, but I doubt we'll ever see T$$AA do that.

I think we can all agree that regardless of the system in place, it will never truly be "fair."

You are preaching to the choir.  There are too many regions with only 5 or 6 teams, and for 4 of those teams to make it is pretty much a joke.   Less classifications and more teams in each region would keep teams who have no business being in the playoffs out, and it would solve scheduling problems in the process.  That just makes sense.  

But it's all about generating the $$$, sense be darned.   

Edited January 15, 2018 by HTV