National Team Lineup

[cbg]

36 minutes ago, ObserverW said:

Again you make the point that started the whole conversation.  Kudos to you for coaching soccer, we need more soccer coaches.  And you prove my argument--"you made no decisions at all on what kids are on the team."  Unfortunately, this is not what happened with our National Teams!  King Green chose the team and ended up putting several of his own wrestlers on the team.  Daddy ball in it essence.  I'm certain many other coaches in the state would jump at the opportunity to coach the National team if they knew it meant a golden ticket for several of their wrestlers. 

ObserverW

The real point is that Tennessee already has enough coaches and parents putting together teams to benefit themselves.  What Tennessee needs is those individuals to coach the teams that do not have any kids involved and are merely coaching to help whatever kids are on the team.  You have some parents coaching in youth wrestling that have never put on a pair of shoes at the high school level much less a quality college team and people are convinced they know what they are doing.  With the "Daddy Ball" parents, 99.9% will be gone the minute their child walks across the graduation line.  The problem is that another group will be right behind them wanting to take their place.  It's a vicious cycle that seems to never end.  

[ObserverW]

2 minutes ago, cbg said:

ObserverW

The real point is that Tennessee already has enough coaches and parents putting together teams to benefit themselves.  What Tennessee needs is those individuals to coach the teams that do not have any kids involved and are merely coaching to help whatever kids are on the team.  You have some parents coaching in youth wrestling that have never put on a pair of shoes at the high school level much less a quality college team and people are convinced they know what they are doing.  With the "Daddy Ball" parents, 99.9% will be gone the minute their child walks across the graduation line.  The problem is that another group will be right behind them wanting to take their place.  It's a vicious cycle that seems to never end.  

We agree on this.  My last sentence was intended as sarcasm to make this point.  There should be a better system for selecting both wrestlers and coaches for the National teams. 

[mjgIII]

Has the date been set for next year?

 

[Sommers]

Really simple...

Team qualifiers... Wrestle offs 1st {2 of 3}; then as an option, a bit more invitational and conditional based on... medalling 2nd, head to head 3rd, common opponents 4th and finally record in season and off (considering quality match wins and losses).

[cbg]

6 hours ago, mjgIII said:

Has the date been set for next year?

 

If the date for 2019 has been established that would allow ample time to begin making the necessary decisions.

[cobrakid8]

11 hours ago, ObserverW said:

Again you make the point that started the whole conversation.  Kudos to you for coaching soccer, we need more soccer coaches.  And you prove my argument--"you made no decisions at all on what kids are on the team."  Unfortunately, this is not what happened with our National Teams!  King Green chose the team and ended up putting several of his own wrestlers on the team.  Daddy ball in it essence.  I'm certain many other coaches in the state would jump at the opportunity to coach the National team if they knew it meant a golden ticket for several of their wrestlers. 

Well CBG and Ow, pretty sure NEItHER of you have a child wrestling right now so this should be ever so simple! It's either put up or shut up it's that simple, if you want to whine put together the perfect way of putting together the team including setting up places for wrestles offs and whatever else needs to be done, I am dang sure you two can put those huge brains together and get this done, so I say hey Mr Kramer you have your coaches for next year! So enough of the daddyball excuses for the two of you if you aren't really to make sacrifice of doing the coaching yourself, instead you two want to talk on here like a bunch of little teenage girls just like you supposedly talked to so many kids that weren't on the team but yet your phone still works!  Thinking the problem with TN wrestling is we have a bunch of whining little babies that when they don't get their way would rather cry instead of getting stuff done themselves! Again if  King Greene had a full time to get this done it would be on him, but if someone wanted to wrestle this all they had to do I am sure is call Coach Kramer and he could have told them who was putting the team together and I am pretty sure all the ones you two are whining about didn't make that call and I am pretty sure king Greene wouldn't have turned down some state champ s and such for his own kids if they had made themselves known to even be available! 

 

also CBG, someone doesn't have to have ever wrestled to be a good coach, I know two coaches back in the 70's and 80's that won state championships that never wrestled in their life they just spent the time learning how to coach the sport and coaching takes a special person, I never played soccer in my life, but my teams have done pretty well! 

[JSamson7]

On 4/7/2018 at 10:55 PM, cobrakid8 said:

Well CBG and Ow, pretty sure NEItHER of you have a child wrestling right now so this should be ever so simple! It's either put up or shut up it's that simple, if you want to whine put together the perfect way of putting together the team including setting up places for wrestles offs and whatever else needs to be done, I am dang sure you two can put those huge brains together and get this done, so I say hey Mr Kramer you have your coaches for next year! So enough of the daddyball excuses for the two of you if you aren't really to make sacrifice of doing the coaching yourself, instead you two want to talk on here like a bunch of little teenage girls just like you supposedly talked to so many kids that weren't on the team but yet your phone still works!  Thinking the problem with TN wrestling is we have a bunch of whining little babies that when they don't get their way would rather cry instead of getting stuff done themselves! Again if  King Greene had a full time to get this done it would be on him, but if someone wanted to wrestle this all they had to do I am sure is call Coach Kramer and he could have told them who was putting the team together and I am pretty sure all the ones you two are whining about didn't make that call and I am pretty sure king Greene wouldn't have turned down some state champ s and such for his own kids if they had made themselves known to even be available! 

 

also CBG, someone doesn't have to have ever wrestled to be a good coach, I know two coaches back in the 70's and 80's that won state championships that never wrestled in their life they just spent the time learning how to coach the sport and coaching takes a special person, I never played soccer in my life, but my teams have done pretty well! 

Don't know if I share the same opinion on your last statement. Can you be a good coach and never wrestled? Maybe, but it's definitely not the 70's or 80's any more so I'm not sure if your 2 examples would work today. As much as TN has grown in the sport these days I'd give a coach who never wrestled 0% chance of winning a state championship over any coach who had previous wrestling experience. Without a stud assistant on his staff filling in the gaps, the coach with no wrestling experience might win a district or region title but probably never sniff a state title.

[wristbar]

On 4/7/2018 at 9:55 PM, cobrakid8 said:

Well CBG and Ow, pretty sure NEItHER of you have a child wrestling right now so this should be ever so simple! It's either put up or shut up it's that simple, if you want to whine put together the perfect way of putting together the team including setting up places for wrestles offs and whatever else needs to be done, I am dang sure you two can put those huge brains together and get this done, so I say hey Mr Kramer you have your coaches for next year! So enough of the daddyball excuses for the two of you if you aren't really to make sacrifice of doing the coaching yourself, instead you two want to talk on here like a bunch of little teenage girls just like you supposedly talked to so many kids that weren't on the team but yet your phone still works!  Thinking the problem with TN wrestling is we have a bunch of whining little babies that when they don't get their way would rather cry instead of getting stuff done themselves! Again if  King Greene had a full time to get this done it would be on him, but if someone wanted to wrestle this all they had to do I am sure is call Coach Kramer and he could have told them who was putting the team together and I am pretty sure all the ones you two are whining about didn't make that call and I am pretty sure king Greene wouldn't have turned down some state champ s and such for his own kids if they had made themselves known to even be available! 

 

also CBG, someone doesn't have to have ever wrestled to be a good coach, I know two coaches back in the 70's and 80's that won state championships that never wrestled in their life they just spent the time learning how to coach the sport and coaching takes a special person, I never played soccer in my life, but my teams have done pretty well! 

I think you misunderstand a big part of why people have a problem with this. If you are trying to put together a true team Tennessee, then it should be a true team Tennessee. The wrestleoff idea was a great idea and fair but not feasible. If you want the best that you can get in TN you go through the results and reach out to coaches and wrestlers. They will come. I can remember about 15 to 20 yrs ago coach Henry put an incredible team together of the best wrestlers in TN and I’m pretty sure they walked through the best of PA, MI, IL and OH down at camp Jordan. I know for a fact that he didn’t put any preference on his own kids because it was a who’s who of TN wrestling. Keller, Ward, Blackmon, Yost, Simpson’s, Dunning’s, K James, Cordell, D McKnight, Q Gibson, hvy from Greeneville, etc. I watched that team and it was incredible. It was put together by inviting the best kids that would come....no preferences. Kids love to be a part of things like this.  This thing turned into a mess from the get go. 

[cobrakid8]

8 hours ago, wristbar said:

I think you misunderstand a big part of why people have a problem with this. If you are trying to put together a true team Tennessee, then it should be a true team Tennessee. The wrestleoff idea was a great idea and fair but not feasible. If you want the best that you can get in TN you go through the results and reach out to coaches and wrestlers. They will come. I can remember about 15 to 20 yrs ago coach Henry put an incredible team together of the best wrestlers in TN and I’m pretty sure they walked through the best of PA, MI, IL and OH down at camp Jordan. I know for a fact that he didn’t put any preference on his own kids because it was a who’s who of TN wrestling. Keller, Ward, Blackmon, Yost, Simpson’s, Dunning’s, K James, Cordell, D McKnight, Q Gibson, hvy from Greeneville, etc. I watched that team and it was incredible. It was put together by inviting the best kids that would come....no preferences. Kids love to be a part of things like this.  This thing turned into a mess from the get go. 

What part of not enough time do people on here not get? And also how about some kids that were invited turned down that invite because it was Easter weekend and for some it was spring break and they already had plans. So do we now blame this on Kramer since he maybe should have put the team together long ago before he found out he wouldn’t be able to coach it? Now I could see that more than King Greene being blamed on not putting together a team when pretty much being a QB of a team given the ball on 4th down 10 seconds left and 80 yards to go! Also that Henry team was hellacious, I know because Henry was my coach, but also that team was put together months in advance of the tournament and also it was pretty easy to put together the best of the best when they were all within 2 hours of Soddy, it was made up of a ton of Chattanooga kids, had none from Memphis which now someone would complain about and the private school kids wanted to take part while this time around some were asked but had other plans! Also the fact of it being 2 divisions instead of 3 now someone would be left out. No one is ever going to be happy with these teams unless there was a wrestle off which again was not feasible especially with the time it was put together. I mean if it was made up of every state champ from AAA the private school and A/AA people would be complaining, if made up of private school kids AAA and A/AA would be complaining and if made up of a mixture we would still have complaints if it wasn’t done by wrestle off because as we saw with the mock GC not everyone agrees with who is the best at each weight!

 

And Samson, you don’t have to agree with my premise but it’s happened plenty of times and in many other states not just in TN! Heck Henry wrestled but he will tell you himself he wasn’t very good he was better in track and cross country but he is also a hall of fame wrestling coach, attention to details, having a good feeder system are as important if not more important than being a stud coach, there are many stud coaches in the state that can’t get anywhere because of not having the foundation built!  Mike Leach is another example of never playing the sport but learning a sport and being a dang good coach at it!

[JSamson7]

14 hours ago, cobrakid8 said:

What part of not enough time do people on here not get? And also how about some kids that were invited turned down that invite because it was Easter weekend and for some it was spring break and they already had plans. So do we now blame this on Kramer since he maybe should have put the team together long ago before he found out he wouldn’t be able to coach it? Now I could see that more than King Greene being blamed on not putting together a team when pretty much being a QB of a team given the ball on 4th down 10 seconds left and 80 yards to go! Also that Henry team was hellacious, I know because Henry was my coach, but also that team was put together months in advance of the tournament and also it was pretty easy to put together the best of the best when they were all within 2 hours of Soddy, it was made up of a ton of Chattanooga kids, had none from Memphis which now someone would complain about and the private school kids wanted to take part while this time around some were asked but had other plans! Also the fact of it being 2 divisions instead of 3 now someone would be left out. No one is ever going to be happy with these teams unless there was a wrestle off which again was not feasible especially with the time it was put together. I mean if it was made up of every state champ from AAA the private school and A/AA people would be complaining, if made up of private school kids AAA and A/AA would be complaining and if made up of a mixture we would still have complaints if it wasn’t done by wrestle off because as we saw with the mock GC not everyone agrees with who is the best at each weight!

 

And Samson, you don’t have to agree with my premise but it’s happened plenty of times and in many other states not just in TN! Heck Henry wrestled but he will tell you himself he wasn’t very good he was better in track and cross country but he is also a hall of fame wrestling coach, attention to details, having a good feeder system are as important if not more important than being a stud coach, there are many stud coaches in the state that can’t get anywhere because of not having the foundation built!  Mike Leach is another example of never playing the sport but learning a sport and being a dang good coach at it!

Mike Leach a good coach?!?! Okay, you just lost me there... 

[WrestlingGod]

On ‎4‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 11:21 PM, wristbar said:

I think you misunderstand a big part of why people have a problem with this. If you are trying to put together a true team Tennessee, then it should be a true team Tennessee. The wrestleoff idea was a great idea and fair but not feasible. If you want the best that you can get in TN you go through the results and reach out to coaches and wrestlers. They will come. I can remember about 15 to 20 yrs ago coach Henry put an incredible team together of the best wrestlers in TN and I’m pretty sure they walked through the best of PA, MI, IL and OH down at camp Jordan. I know for a fact that he didn’t put any preference on his own kids because it was a who’s who of TN wrestling. Keller, Ward, Blackmon, Yost, Simpson’s, Dunning’s, K James, Cordell, D McKnight, Q Gibson, hvy from Greeneville, etc. I watched that team and it was incredible. It was put together by inviting the best kids that would come....no preferences. Kids love to be a part of things like this.  This thing turned into a mess from the get go. 

You threw out so many names in that post I had to go back and see if it was Soms that posted that.

[cobrakid8]

11 hours ago, JSamson7 said:

Mike Leach a good coach?!?! Okay, you just lost me there... 

well, sorry but he has won at 2 schools at a much higher rate then they have historically, but nah he isnt a good coach, hahahaha wow you really need to look at some good coaches! I mean Nick Saban wasnt Nick Saban at Michigan State or Toledo, he had to go to LSU and have all their resources to win it all, but I am sure you would have said Saban sucks as a coach when he was at Michigan State.  Saban was .592 at Mich State while historically State is .599, Leach was .661 at Texas Tech historically they are  .557 at terrible Wash State .500 historically they are .489. Leach is a great coach, would love to see him where they actually have winning programs, obviously you need to stick with I am thinking Alcoa high school football because you dont know a thing about college football!