tnsmokediver

Initiating without an attempt to finish is stalling. It appears after his first shot and takedown that if the points didn't come easily, that he was creating a stalemate in order to get a fresh start. I have had this argument thrown at me before after calling stalling...."My kid has shot and he has not." While this may have been true, the wrestler had ceased to shoot and was blocking the other wrestler out without an attempt to score. Thus stalling at this point. The rule book makes no reference to shot counts. Saying that a wrestler should not be hit for stalling because he does not finish or creates the stalemate situation as seen in this match would be as wrong as saying that the other kid should just assume the defensive starting position because the other kid could not score a takedown with his shots.

Ok...just watched the match. Just my opinion and observation.... 1. Stalling could have been called against Mosely earlier. However, I am looking for it in the video now after all the talk and debate. Looking at this match without the benefit of hindsight might make a difference. 2. After his first shot and takedown, it appears that he gives up on the attempt to secure the points if the takedown did not come easily. While he is taking a lot of shots, he is not making the effort to finish and score with it. There was no attempt to move the head to the outside, no attempt to drive in or pull the leg in. The argument of "what can he do?" is null and void because every move or hold in this sport had a counter. Otherwise, everyone would learn that one move/hold etc and nothing else. (Also reference reftn's post quoting the case book on this situation.) 3. If the stalling was called earlier (again with the benefit of replay) this match would have never made it to overtime giving Mosely an opportunity to win it there. (Frankly speaking, if anything the officials delay in calling stalling early on favored Mosely more than Bertz.) 4. The argument that it was the official who "wanted to insert himself into the outcome of this match" is a little off. More so, it appears that the folks who did not agree with the call want to put him in this situation, rather than face the fact that it was the kid who lost the match due to his unwillingness to attempt to score. I realize he did take more shots but I refer you to point 2 in my post. 5. Having officiated matches with Coach Simpson in the corner, I can attest to the fact that if he felt that the wrong call was made, he WOULD be at the table to discuss it. At a minimum, he would be discreetly chewing some butt from the chair. The official in this match is one of the best I have worked with. I learn from him every time I work with him as well as every other official I have worked with in this state. Tater Vineyard is ABOVE board on every match he calls. Period! He loves this sport and the kids who participate in it as much or more than those of us who work and have worked with him as an official. Right call.

SHHHHHH! You'll let the secret out and they will start charging the same price it would cost you to go to Franklin in person. LOL!

Agreed. I was working this weekend and watched the finals online. It that this is the same ole song and dance every year. Usually from the same people who claim to be experts but do not offer their services for the betterment of the sport. Instead they post to complain about those who do give back to a sport that has made them better human beings. Every year kids across the state give their blood, sweat and tears for a sport that is unforgiving as it is rewarding, without any promise of how it will end. The only thing that can be guaranteed is that the harder they work and sacrifice, the better chance they will have at determining the outcome on their own.

Per the NFHS Rule Book: Out of bounds occurs when a supporting part of both wrestlers is on and/or beyond the boundary line. New this year was a change that now includes the line as in-bounds. In previous years, a wrestler's supporting part was out if it were touching the line (just like the sideline in football). There are times when we officiate in places that have the facilities to support additional out of bounds space and we have to call out of bounds early for the safety of the wrestlers. Hope this answers your question about the definition of the rule. I did not see the match so I can not give an opinion as to if the rule were misapplied.

The true lack of maturity is for fans and parents who blame officials for their kid "getting screwed" by the "incompetent official" calling the match. Just kinda sick of those pointing fingers at all the wrong but yet do not try to do what we do. Yes, I will take up for my brother as I will ALL my brothers who put on a grey shirt and hit the mat. I have spent the better part of 27 years (20 as an official) in this sport and this is the only sport where officials get the biggest blame for a kid losing. It is the nature of the sport. It is our cross to bear and those of us love this sport will continue to do what we do, regardless of your feelings about how well we do it. Let me respond.... First, I didn't know what match or two kids you were referring to. I could care less. That was really not message. My message was in general about the blame that is frequently thrown around on CoachT about the "shoddy" officiating. Second, I respect your right to log on to CoachT and complain about your feelings. We "all" do not think there is a problem. Example, the call you referred to prompting your post, that you feel was incorrect, may have been the best call of the day in the eyes of the fans of the other kid who was the beneficiary. Thirdly, as it is your God given right to throw around blame and and complain, it is also my right to disagree and tell you to get out of the stands and get involved if you think officiating is that horrible. There are times that officials don't agree with each other. (hearing a huge gasp across the state) However, when we talk about the situation later, we DISCUSS what took place and sometimes our opinion will change because of what the official saw on the mat from his perspective. We are not perfect nor do we claim to be. We are just trying to do a job the best we can for a sport that we obviously love or we would not be out every year listening to folks #### and complain about the job we do. Not sure who made the comment about us being "well paid" but let me address that. ARE YOU FREAKIN' SERIOUS? Having said that, I won't even dignify your silly remark by commenting on it anymore. Everyone who posts their displeasure about officiating here feels they are absolutely correct when the post about bad officiating but seem to get extremely defensive when we as officials voice our displeasure with the inability of the fans to do the job from the bleachers. These same people get even more upset when we as officials suggest that you remove your butt from the stands and join us on the mat to make the same calls for real. REFTN, Due to the numbers who believe we walk out on the mat uninformed, educated and clueless, with the intent of "screwing" certain kids, next year before the season we need to post to CoachT how many and which kids we "intend" to screw over. The heck with us being impartial anymore....let's just choose sides before the season and give these people what they want, partiality. That's what they're looking for. I can't believe it's taken me 20 years to figure that out. We just need to figure out which kid, team, family or coach we need to be partial to so that everyone will be happy. Cause that's what we are here for....to make EVERYONE happy. (sarcasm)

Actually, that is what everyone was hoping you would do.

This was awesome....my first day back to work after deployment and I was able to watch the finals. Very cool!

Gotta love coacht.com during wrestling season.....always someone complaining about officiating, how it can be done better, how some kid got "screwed" by an official, blah, blah, blah. Yet each year our numbers do not grow in proportion to the number of folks who seem to be able to officiate better from the stands and post about it on coacht.

This is exactly the point I was making. I have had some coaches argue that a wrestler had to be in control in order to earn a pin. I have quoted that to many coaches at the table. I had one read it and still argue the point after reading the words "either wrestler" out loud at the table. We use the term defensive pin as wrestling jargon.

I will answer any question to the best of my ability when asked. However, this post started out with the bad mouthing of officials as seen below. If you want a question answered, ask it. Starting out the conversation by telling the people who will most likely give you the answer that they suck at what they do will most likely lead to the conversation taking a downward spiral right out of the gate. That is much of what happened here. BTW, I called two of those defensive pins. Those were the easiest to call because they put their backs completely flat on the mat without having the other kids arms, hands a so forth in the way. Defensive pins are always a sore subject for some but still a part of the sport no matter how controversial. A few years ago the number 1 seed in Region I pinned himself in the first round of the tournament. (I called that match as well.) As stated earlier, if this job was easy, everyone would be doing it. I have just returned from a deployment in early January and all I thought about was getting back near a wrestling mat for the last two months I spent in country. Even with all the sneering, heckling and pissed off parents, I loved being back to do the one thing I love more than anything, being around wrestling. I will continue to put on my gray shirt and occupy the best seat in the house for the most awesome sport on the planet knowing that not everyone will be happy about the result at the end of the day. Being upset, mad and so forth shows that these people have passion for the sport and that's what makes wrestling so great!

Thanks Coach! It's because of your attitude that we as officials respect you and those like you. We may not always walk away from the mat agreeing with every call made but we do respect each other when we do. Perspective is everything on a wrestling mat. Not every view of situations will look the same and that's what makes this sport so great!

It is relevant to the point that fans, parents, etc seem to ignore what we as officials or the rule book ask except for when it will not benefit you or your wrestler.

It was made clear before the finals started who was allowed on the floor. As to officials being all around you, that is incorrect. The officials who were not on the mat for the finals or consolation finals are sitting down in the background of your video. Once again proving my point of the ignorance of the rule book as there is to be no one within 10 feet of the table except for scorekeepers and clock operators. We as officials can only do so much for crowd control because our main focus has to be on the mat. The administrators of the host facility are responsible for crowd control per the rule book. BTW, your previous post states you didn't take the video but you now indicate your were beside the table. If you were in two places at once, you obviously have a talent we could use next year if you are willing to purchase a gray shirt.

This person got it. I find it even more humorous that a coach in our region officiated an AAU tournament, walked off the mat and apologized to a couple of officials in our region after "walking the mile" in our shoes, for things he had said or done as a coach with us on the mat. There is not one official in this state that I know who walks onto the mat with the intention of throwing a match one way or the other. I do get frustrated at times with parents, fans and sometimes coaches who think that they are experts on the rule book but only have a general knowledge. While I do not claim to be perfect, my job is to protect the well being of the kids and enforce the intent and spirit of the rule book. Knowledge of the rule book is to me what the ability to teach is to a coach. This sport is not as popular as say football which makes some of the more intricate parts of the rule book very vague for the untrained. An example....a coach argues a defensive pin because his kid was in control when the book does not specify that a wrestler has to be in control to earn a pin. Those of us in the sport for any length of time will know this but someone with little knowledge will be convinced that his kid just got screwed.