On 11/1/2020 at 6:50 PM, ObserverW said:

HAHAHAHA!  I hate to be the one to point out how ridiculous you sound--actually who am I kidding, I don't mind at all, but as Joe would say C'mon man!  You must have been locked away in the wrestling room with no windows and no internet access for the past year.  So let me get this straight, you are going to take your ONE returning 6th place medalist and move from 29th to the top 5?  Or I guess I should say, "close to the top 5."  Maybe its different out here when we say close to something we mean its reasonably attainable whereas it seems that your version of close means something entirely different.  

I will say I enjoy your blind optimism but using state qualifier as a determination of success from a region where each weight class had an average of 6 wrestlers and one win would therefore earn you that prestigious title of state qualifier, that might just be a bit of a dangerous assumption.  But good luck with that.

If Cleveland doesn't win the dual 84-0, you should call it a successful season and start building for next year.  

On 11/2/2020 at 9:29 PM, JSamson7 said:

We'll see, just outside of the top 5 could be anywhere from 6 to 9 and that's not "illogical" for us to be there at year's end. Next time I'll dumb it down for you more so you'll understand a little better.

Remember in November when I told you to open the window and look out?  I know we're not finished yet, but I think it's safe to say top 6 to 9 is not only illogical, it's just downright insane.  HAHA!  We're over here pulling for you though, maybe you can make a run and jump into the top 25, it will be tough because you will have to jump over Siegel and McMinn with their crew of 2 wrestlers.  @JSamson7 You should have taken my advice bro.  Maybe next year....right??

33 minutes ago, WrestlingGod said:

Whether or not he deserved it then really isn’t the topic. And tbh, nobody dogged Calvin for getting it like you are dogging Pete right here. We’re saying THIS YEAR there was no competition as to which coach should’ve gotten the award. There was a case to be made for multiple kids getting it, Calvin just shouldn’t have been one of them. 
 

It’s just a little weird that one of the awards went where it should and the other didn’t. 

Ok, so let me use your phrasing.   I wasn't dogging Pete, I'm simply saying there were about 25 other coaches who deserved the award but he wasn't one of them. 

It's just a little weird that daddy might have had influence over the vote.

3 hours ago, Midtnwtrestling said:

Finished 3rd at state. Finished with 277 points, beat Brentwood by 100 points, 7 champs, 9 qualified. Ehhh maybe someone else deserves it. Not much to see here. 

yes I’m being sarcastic 

To be fair, Miller has certainly been the beneficiary of the "popularity contest" so I don't think anyone could be upset if he didn't win.  In 2016 when he was "voted" as TN Coach of the Year, his team finished an unimpressive 27th at State and did not qualify for State Duals.  The prior year Summit was 0-2 at State Duals.  So you might want to save your sarcasm, logic is not used for awards in the state.  

On 10/31/2020 at 12:34 AM, JSamson7 said:

We have you guys pretty early and hopefully do better than last season! We're deep in spots with some weight classes having multiple state qualifiers (except for 106), but as usual we'll be missing some starters until football is over. My guess we'll be close to the top 5 by year's end.

We did get a super nice transfer from GA (Trion-Grindhouse kid), I'll be anxious to see him more once he's done with football...

HAHAHAHA!  I hate to be the one to point out how ridiculous you sound--actually who am I kidding, I don't mind at all, but as Joe would say C'mon man!  You must have been locked away in the wrestling room with no windows and no internet access for the past year.  So let me get this straight, you are going to take your ONE returning 6th place medalist and move from 29th to the top 5?  Or I guess I should say, "close to the top 5."  Maybe its different out here when we say close to something we mean its reasonably attainable whereas it seems that your version of close means something entirely different.  

I will say I enjoy your blind optimism but using state qualifier as a determination of success from a region where each weight class had an average of 6 wrestlers and one win would therefore earn you that prestigious title of state qualifier, that might just be a bit of a dangerous assumption.  But good luck with that.

If Cleveland doesn't win the dual 84-0, you should call it a successful season and start building for next year.  

On 1/2/2020 at 1:02 PM, Mason422 said:

Well said Sir.  I don’t personally know Mason, but the couple times I met him he was very respectful and seemed like a fine young man.  
 

It absolutely blows my mind how people will put down kids and hide behind user names.  If you are gonna speak bad about someone on a forum like this at least have the guts to say who you are.  I don’t have any respect for keyboard tough guys. 
 

Sid Mason 

I was going to let this go but you guys couldn't let it drop.  I am sorry if my opinion hurts your feelings but I guess you will just have to deal with it.  Putting your head in the sand and pretending like someone deserves the medal of valor because they were a great wrestler does absolutely nothing to improve character or our sport.  Everyone goes on and on about how wrestling, like no other sport, builds character, etc, etc, etc.  Yet we turn a blind eye when some of our best wrestlers act like a fool and get away with it because they are winning gold medals.  And while we are on the subject there are coaches from certain "top level" programs who also get the same treatment.  We gush on and on about them on message boards and newspaper articles when they hoist the trophy but conveniently forget when they are kicking chairs, getting ejected from tournaments, etc. etc.  

Before you jump to defend, take a look at the facts.  One quick and easy example:  The AAA State Championship team lost 16 points (among 3 wrestlers and the coach) in the 2019 State Tournament.  

So rather than blindly hero worshiping, maybe we should hold everyone to the same standard regardless of the number of gold medals on their wall.  

3 hours ago, Rasslinking said:

Hahaha a person posting who obviously knows nothing about wrestling, nor knows these kids very well.  ObserverW your knowledge on masons character reassures anyone who knows this sport you are lost. Continue to post you guarded and inaccurate posts. 

Being a great wrestler does NOT automatically equal great character.  The two are not one in the same.  One who "loves" the sport as you claim needs to learn to show some humility.  I see the same as everyone else.  Your Chattanooga rose colored glasses are strong.

If he expects to make the Cornell lineup, he needs to get to work.  I was right in front of his mat today and watched him blow a 5 or 6 point lead in less than 2 minutes by being out of shape and trying to stall out a match.  He took an injury timeout for nothing more than to get a breather.  

23 minutes ago, Rasslinking said:

He’s a kid and your obviously a old man whose son or kid on your team got beat by him. Mason is a GREAT kid!!! Very respectful and loves the sport. He’s at Cornell.... if he never starts, he will still be winning ha. 

You must be confused.  Reiniche and respectful have probably never been said in the same sentence before.  I hope Cornell can help him mature but he has a long way to go.  Great wrestler, but hes the only one I have ever witnessed sitting down on the mat during State finalist introductions.  A cheap shot artist and conveniently takes injury timeout when hes in a bad spot/tired.  

On 10/26/2019 at 12:18 PM, durdon said:

Cornell is a top 5 program so they recruit the very top level kids and not just Prep. 
 

You also just lost all credibility when you said UWW wasn’t number 1.  There is ZERO debate that UWW is the toughest tournament in all of High School wrestling.  NO DEBATE! 
 

Let’s look at 2015 UWW Cadets

Find me another High School tournament with this level of talent in every single bracket???

 

See, there you go again spouting off your opinion as fact.  Just because there is ZERO debate that UWW is the toughest tournament IN YOUR MIND, doesn't make it true.  

Also I find it interesting that you had to go back to 2015 to find the talent level at UWW sufficient to attempt to prove your argument.  But since you asked, I quickly pulled up the results of Ironman.  They have a list of former place winners who were All American.  The last year it was updated was 2016 so I just pulled 2016, 2015, & 2014.  I will note that I am not advocating Ironman as the toughest tournament, in fact, I would probably lean toward S32 and Powerade.  It is also important to note that Ironman is an in season tournament so the pool of potential entries is very limited.  Even given these limitations, Ironman still have more talent than UWW.

12 hours ago, oceansize42 said:

Kodiak Cannedy should get a mention at 138/145.  I get to see him on the regular and he is going to beat a lot big school kids regardless of their big school status.  Hopefully he gets a chance to prove it.

7th at 2019 tournament of champions

7th at 2019 nhsca

3rd at 16U SE Regional Freestyle

Won three matches at 2019 Super 32 at 138 lbs and both his losses were by two points. 

 

 

 

 

Why hello Kodiak Cannedy's Mom & Dad, welcome to the board!  I love your confidence in your son.  However TOC is trash.  SE Regional is trash.  Super32, ok, that's good but we all know a good draw at S32 can get you a few wins.  7th at NHSCA freshman division, respectable.  

No disrespect towards your son but since you opened the door and want to throw him in the spotlight, let me throw out a few other statistics (all easily verifiable on Track).

• Noah Horst over Cannedy - MD 14-1 (ok, national level wrestler but 14-1...)
• Braxton Mann, Science Hill over Cannedy - TF 18-2 (Braxton who?)
• Beast of the East record 1-2 (meh...)
• 3rd at Bill Brimer's Brawl in the Hall (majored 14-4 at a backwoods local event?)

Those who we consider to be Tennessee's top 10 wrestlers should not be getting majored and teched.  Keep grinding.

Durdon-I appreciate your knowledge of wrestling but you have a loud voice and type massively long posts so I think people assume your opinions are facts and others therefore build on your faulty assumptions and self-serving statements.  I don't have the time or interest to research too much but just from memory I am going to toss out a few names that debunk your statement about Ivy Leagues recruiting "almost exclusively from Prep Nationals."  Dake, Yanni, Max & Gabe Dean, Peppleman--not at Nat Preps.  I am sure there are many others but those quickly come to mind.  Your opinions are completely skewed by your own experience.  Just because a couple of Baylor kids ended up at Cornell because they competed well at PN does not qualify your statement.  And the funniest part is I KNOW you want to list it higher on your list but you are trying to pretend to be humble.  

UWW & Fargo, while certainly tough tournaments, are not 1 & 2. The population of wrestlers who compete at these events is a fraction of the talent throughout the United States.  I know you try to fly the freestyle flag but deep in your heart you know there are kids who are sitting at home watching Fargo who would blow through many of those AA's.  Comparing freestyle and folkstyle tournaments and determining a kids "ranking" in folkstyle because of how many AA's they have in a freestyle tournament is pretty close to idiotic.  That is akin to saying Jeff Gordon should be ranked as a top 5 motorcycle racer.  Both sports are racing and he was amazing at one so he therefore must be amazing at another racing sport.  That argument only works if you are a NASCAR fan and trying to prove your own opinion.  Kind of similar to someone who touts the private school wrestlers and those who perform well at freestyle events as the best.  In the end its all about perspective and you seem to have lost it.   

13 hours ago, durdon said:

11. Aiden Bowers - 8th at both Flonationals and National Prep. Clearly,  he isn’t living off his brothers reputation. 

12. There isn’t another kid that I can find that has multiple National Tourney wins this year but we have a bunch that have placed at major nationals. Brayden Ivy 4th at NHSCA, Kodiak Kennedy 7th at NHSCA, Parker Peterson 7th at NHSCA, Conner Duffy 6th National Prep, Jackson bond 6th National Prep, Emory Taylor 2X national Prep AA 5th this year. Daniel Uhrochuck 8th at NHSCA last year.

I'm sure you did it because you didn't want to be accused of being biased toward your kid, but how do you put A. Bowers over Emory?  Head to head should trump any comparative results.

24 minutes ago, PurpleWrestler said:

Isbell is overrated? And you base that on one match, one score? Wow, ok. 

And help me here, how is it that  Bowers is living on his "brother's" reputation? 

 

Just one example.  Not saying Isbell is bad but there are others in the state pfp who are better.  

My fault on Bowers.  I misread because he is listed as a Junior.  I actually think Garrett should be above Isbell.  

19 hours ago, NotSurprised said:

1) GARRISON DENDY- SOPHOMORE 138 (RANKED 19TH BY FLO, WITH WINS OVER THE 4TH AND 5TH RANKED GUYS THIS PRESEASON)

2) HORST- SENIOR 132 (CAN SOMEONE TELL ME IF HE'S EVER LOST A MATCH TO ANOTHER TENNESSEE KID?) HOPE TO SEE HIM AND ISBELL THIS YEAR.

3) TREY MCDANIEL- JUNIOR 113 (CONSISTENT NATIONAL RESULTS)

4)ALEX WHITWORTH- JUNIOR 160 (ON THE ROAD TO 5 TITLES)

5) DAVID HARPER- SOPHOMORE 195 (FREAKY ATHLETIC UNDERCLASSMAN)

6) SKYLAR COFFEE- SENIOR HWT (RANKED 7TH BY FLO) I HOPE HIM AND HOWARD COMPETE AGAINST ONE ANOTHER SOMETIME THIS SEASON.

7) JAMES HOWARD- SOPHOMORE HWT (DOUBLE FARGO ALL AMERICAN IN CADETS THIS SUMMER) I GIVE THE EDGE TO COFFEE ON A WHAT HAVE YOU DONE FOR ME LATELY BASIS.

8) CHRISTIAN ISBELL-SENIOR 132 (TOUGH SENIOR)

 

HONORABLE MENTION NO ORDER

JACKSON BOND (10) BAYLOR

TREY BATES (11) BEECH

GARRET BOWERS (11) CBHS

CONNOR DUFFY (12) BAYLOR

BROOKS SACHARCZYK (12) BLACKMAN

HUNTER MASON (9) GREENVILLE - IN MY OPINION THE TOUGHEST KID IN THE FRESHMAN CLASS. I BELIEVE HE WILL BE HIGHSCHOOL READY IMMEDIATELY AND POTENTIALLY THE BEST WRESTLER IN A-AA THIS YEAR.

My main criteria are who I believe would actually win a match at the same weight class, and strength of wins/national placement. Thoughts?

I might argue the order of some in your top 7 but at first glance, generally agree.  I think Isbell is overrated.  He was a SC last year but 32 was one of the weaker classes.  He only beat Kerns by 2 in the finals.  There are other, more dominant wrestlers who should be in the PfP.  And Bowers keeps getting his brother's legacy vote.  

Lots of hype around Mason.  But we might never know how good he really is since he chose to compete in the small school division.  I'm never one to shy away from controversy so might as well go ahead and say it--with the occasional exception, 4 small school state championships equal 1 AAA championship.

1 hour ago, cobrakid8 said:

also go through the results and show me how many 3rd and 4th place wrestlers scored more compared to those that placed 1st or 2nd? Let me know the answer to that one. First because the BIGGEST points that can be scored are those for quarterfinals winners because they get their placement points, so as we saw with a few we had some tough matchups in quarters that did not allow a pretty dang good wrestler to earn those placement points that are more than those they get fighting their way through for 3rd.

Well that was easy - the first two I looked at!

AAA 106 Chris Calvin - 2nd place - total points 25.5

AAA 106 Braden Ivy - 3rd place - total points 25.5

AAA 120 Andrew Artiles - 2nd place - total points 24

AAA 120 Jacob Haney - 3rd place - total points 25

Cobra- you are a moron.  Just because you spew it doesn't make it fact!

1 minute ago, DaBears1976 said:

I also believe that other regions are catching up, but at the same time, when they do, they also lose their kids to either tranfers to privates or graduation. 

I wonder where they might be transferring to?    I love your enthusiasm for Cleveland but then you gotta come out here and throw them under the transfer bus. 

How could we forget to have a Region 4 discussion without mentioning Soddy who was 48th with no placers!  And by the way, once upon a time, The Cowboys won a Superbowl.  

2 minutes ago, PurpleWrestler said:

all ya'll listening to yourselves? You sound like grade school kids arguing on who's daddy can beat up who's.

I bet Jones' daddy is BA 

Again, no one is questioning Cleveland's dominance this year, but Region 4, as a whole, is no longer the envy of all others.  A team championship is great but from a region standpoint, Region 6 took home the leadership honors and the cool thing is, there isn't just one team that collects all the good kids and wins.  Region 6 has organically grown their programs and the high level of competitiveness in the region will soon lead to team championships.  Its coming.  Region 4 brace yourselves, you can keep those doors open on Sunday but unfortunately one school cannot keep your region atop the leaderboard.  

But I will agree that Cleveland most certainly won Most Salty this year.  

1 hour ago, DaBears1976 said:

Cleveland wrestlers are not bad. I don't even know Jones at all, but i got to meet him one night at an mexican restaurant before the Cleveland bradley match. One of the greatest kids i have ever talked to. Smart kid. As just like any kid in the country, sometimes you let your emotions overrule your thinking. I'm not saying being cocky and unsportsman like is right, but when you're on top of the mountain, it's gonna happen. 

My youngest son is in 6th grade and last night he was reading in his Civics book about laws.  Have you ever heard of the Three Strikes Law?  Its a law that severely punishes those who have repeatedly ignored the law as if there are no consequences.  It was enacted because some kept committing the same crimes over and over.  These same guys would come to court with character witnesses telling how the offender was one of the greatest people they know and made a mistake and let their emotions overrule their rational thought. 

Not that it applies to anything here on the message board, I just thought it was interesting and wanted to share.  

Region 4 is spending too much time looking down over their kingdom and didn't notice Region 6 coming over the back wall to take their place!  

24 minutes ago, Bigpopper71 said:

 With that attitude is a target. Things that happen in every match might be ignored but because it’s a Cleveland wrestler it gets called. 

Laughable!  I would argue just the opposite.  Jones was given way too much latitude.  He should have been ejected after the first flagrant punch to the back of the head.  He then missed on an intended crossface/punch and proceeded to try to twist the other wrestlers knee to hurt him.  I feel that wrestlers from 99% of other teams would surely have been ejected after the second incident.  I believe he was given way too much rope because of the singlet he was wearing.  

6 minutes ago, JIII said:

I suppose you think we should be ok with losing a match? Kids that compete at a high level are not ok with losing. It’s an emotional sport and sometimes that comes out in a negative manner. Character is developed at home and relying on a coach to do that is wrong. Winning Championships is what they put in all that work for year round. Cleveland practiced Sunday and the room was full of State Champs both returning and graduating and kids that came up short.So yeah maybe it just matters more in our town. 

There were 31 wrestlers that came up short of their goal at the state tournament.  So your argument is all 31 of those should be overlooked if they decide to throw a temper tantrum because their coach hasn't taught them how to respectfully handle a loss?  Or is it only the Cleveland wrestlers who deserve to be overlooked for bad sportsmanship because they came in to practice on Sunday?

2 minutes ago, JIII said:

Cleveland lost 16 points for unsportsmanlike conduct. 13 of those belong to Mr. Jones. What he did was unacceptable. The remainder  involve two of the best young men I know and Coach Knox. The suggestion that there is a fire is laughable. Look at the team score difference between 1st and 2nd Place. heck you might want to start your own fire.

Taking a quick look, I see no other teams that had 4 members of their team penalized.  I am not discounting the fact that Cleveland dominated the event, I am simply stating that winning a championship seems to be the only goal for the Raiders and when things don't go as they want, maybe they haven't figured out how to properly express their displeasure.  I thought wrestling was about more than winning medals.  Teaching sportsmanship, building character, etc. etc. etc.  But I guess that's none of my business.  

9 hours ago, fooseball95 said:

nobody is taking up for him lol. You don’t take a shot at the whole team because of what he did. 

Very true. If it was only one wrestler losing points for his actions, it would be unfair to "take a shot" at the whole team. BUT when several wrestlers and the coach all lose points because of their lack of sportsmanship, as they say, where there is smoke there is fire. 

Fiery is one thing. Out of control is another. That was 100% uncalled for and you're a fool for trying to take up for him, make excuses, and condone it. It's a disgrace to our sport and the others in it who act with respect.