ObserverW

HA! The officials in our state would revolt. They never make mistakes.

Key word, "MIDDLE SCHOOL" and you make my point even stronger. Two years ago or even last year McDaniel would not tech Ivy, but McDaniel has one high school season under his belt wrestling some very good wrestlers. Yes, Ivy travels and sees good competition but he is still wrestling on the Middle School level. McDaniel just took 2 AA from Fargo against High School wrestlers. When Ivy places at Super 32 in high school I will be impressed. And this is not a dig at Ivy, I believe he is a great wrestler, my point is that placing in Super 32 Middle School is not comparable to the HS tournament. You cannot extrapolate that a S32 MS placer will be a HS placer. I think Ivy will do well, again I believe he is a great wrestler, just not on the level of McDaniel. I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news here, but being in Morristown is a handicap to a wrestler like Ivy. He absolutely does not have the same quality partners that some in other areas do. Morristown might get there but when was the last time they had a state medalist? And I get that he has traveled all over as a middle school and youth wrestler, but once the high school season starts, he will only wrestle his school's schedule. I have no idea what type of schedule Morristown (I'm not even sure which Morristown school he is attending) wrestles but I hope to see them at some big tournaments so we can all see how this shakes out.

Ha!!! I would take that bet all day long. We are talking about the same Fargo All American McDaniel, correct?

From last year's group, 5 of the 14 were runner up in small school and like it or not, being a state finalist in Tennessee small school does not make you a national contender. 7 others placed in their respective divisions at 106 & 113. Many of the upcoming freshmen you spoke about in your original post will be 126 and above. This makes a huge difference. When you enter the middle and upper weights, you begin wrestling young men and are no longer dealing with pre-pubescent highly technical wrestlers. Some of these freshmen with high level talent WILL lose to less talented wrestlers due to strength, maturity, and psychological factors. And I stand by my statement that some will stagnate due to the level of competition in their high school room.

You are missing my point. It is not about the wrestler or their talent level, its about the team, coach, and room they are stepping into. In youth they have the ability to travel and choose all of the above, once you enter a high school room, those options are severely limited for the most part. For example, I agree that Sammy is top level talent but, with all due respect, Rossview has not proven to me yet that they can foster a freshman State Champion. Especially if he is at 120 or higher. There are so many factors that go into a championship that are out of ones control in the high school room. The quality of your practice partner is one of those variables that an individual cannot control. Maybe Shires will have a room full of studs to push him to the limit each day but if so, I haven't seen them around Rossview. Another example is Braden Ivey. I have only watched this kid a few times, but he is very good. Unfortunately he is stepping into a room (assuming he is at Jefferson Co?) that absolutely does not have the talent to push him to be better. He and McDaniel were very close a few years ago, my money now says McDaniel techs him. And McDaniel is only going to grow further and faster while kids like Ivy, at no fault of their own, will stagnate in a non-competitive room. Rooms like those at Beech where Noah had Palmer and Bates had Noah and they all had each other to push them to be better each day, those are the programs that can foster a freshman state champ. That being said, if it can be done, 106 and 113 are the best opportunities.

Several talented kids here but I think Durdon is chugging the Kool Aid. There have been many talented wrestlers come out of middle school and as CBG stated, circumstances dictated less success. Some of these young men will be very successful but I think you are setting some up for premature failure with unrealistic expectations and hype. Time will tell. Please save this post and revisit in February.

We agree on this. My last sentence was intended as sarcasm to make this point. There should be a better system for selecting both wrestlers and coaches for the National teams.

Again you make the point that started the whole conversation. Kudos to you for coaching soccer, we need more soccer coaches. And you prove my argument--"you made no decisions at all on what kids are on the team." Unfortunately, this is not what happened with our National Teams! King Green chose the team and ended up putting several of his own wrestlers on the team. Daddy ball in it essence. I'm certain many other coaches in the state would jump at the opportunity to coach the National team if they knew it meant a golden ticket for several of their wrestlers.

You nailed it CBG. This is a problem in all sports including wrestling in Tennessee. Those who fail to recognize it have their heads in the sand, either because they don't want to believe it (as it seems with Corbra) or because it conveniently suits their needs (as it seems with Norse). Will calling them out on CoachT fix it, probably not but if enough people are aware then maybe we can move in the right direction to change. And don't give me the line about last minute, not enough time, etc. etc. They had more than ample time to make phone calls and ask the most deserving wrestlers. If they received a decline and had to take their own team by default, then so be it, but I know for a fact this is not the case. As for volunteering to coach. If you believe there is an open invitation by Tennessee AAU for anyone who wants to help, then you have had your head in the sand much longer than I thought. If you haven't noticed, TN AAU is a very tight knit fraternity and just because someone, as you suggest, is willing to volunteer to coach does not mean they are open to allowing it. I don't know you or your son but it is obvious you have a wrestler on the team and I get the feeling you are taking offense because you are inferring that someone believes maybe your kid specifically wasn't deserving. Lets be clear--I'm not bashing your kid. I wasn't talking about one wrestler in particular and moreover, I didn't say anyone was undeserving. I said there are wrestlers who had earned the right and were MORE deserving than some chosen. But you strengthen your message even more with your foolish comment about someone having a good day. HAHAHAHA! So is this your message? The wrestlers that earned a state medal must have gotten lucky at the state tournament and the non-medalist "may have just been off a bit on that particular day"? I see now, the whole NorseFlake ideal that everyone deserves to participate regardless of their results. You keep sticking your own foot in your mouth, maybe its time you power down the computer and let the adults have a conversation.

Norseflake, I hope you are not a defense lawyer because you would have several clients in jail. You are basically confirming everything we are saying about how the team was chosen. NO, we were not around when the teams were put together. My point exactly. No one is berating the coaches for not putting in their time and effort, we all appreciate the fact that coaches are volunteering. But just as you say, none of us were asked to coach the team. The issue lies with the fact that not having a coach on the team should not eliminate a wrestler from consideration for the team. I don't think any of the wrestlers on the team felt that they didn't deserve to be there, those who felt slighted were the ones who had beaten others on the team or finished ahead of them at region/state and are sitting home because they didn't get a chance to wrestle-off for the spot. If logistics wouldn't allow for a wrestle-off (which is an invalid excuse, wrestlers would have made the trip, if there is one thing wrestling parents don't mind its a road trip for wrestling) but lets just say it wasn't possible, at the very least, an email to all the coaches in the state could have been drafted to determine interest. At that point go from top down. Medalists get first right of refusal. It is pretty simple. Or, there are only 14 weight classes, beginning with the top placing freshmen/sophomores, it might have taken 25 phone calls/text messages to get the MOST deserving wrestlers on the team. And yes I said it! There were wrestlers who were MORE deserving who were not given the opportunity. Its obvious that your son was chosen for the team and very peculiar that you are so quick to defend the selection method. Lets assume your son is one of the medalists who was the top freshman/sophomore in his weight class, if he was left at home would you be on here defending the selection method? I hope that my non-inclusive statements do not force you to your safe place.

I wasn't the one who named anyone specifically but I 100% agree that there were wrestlers who were left off the team, that were never asked to participate, who finished higher at state than others who were on the team. Does that make anyone not deserving to be on the team, no BUT it was a disservice to those who were left off! Call it semantics or whatever you please, but if it hurts your feelings by saying someone who finished ahead of another in the state tournament is more deserving, then maybe you need to get out of your snowflake bubble. If I finish with a state medal and you do not, then I DESERVE to be offered the spot before you do. Sorry if you feel that is negative but that's just the facts bro. I think it is great that all our National teams had success in Iowa, but again I MUST be left to wonder what might have been IF we had given ourselves the best opportunity to win with the best available wrestlers.

Cool story bro...timeline seems a bit off given there "was a very short window," but ok. What would I say makes one more deserving? How about the fact that there are wrestlers on the team who lost to others who are not on the team. Wrestlers who were more than willing to represent TN given the opportunity. Not my kids but seems I have touched a nerve by speaking truth. As for the team's success, I'm very happy to see both teams successful but one can only wonder if we could have pulled off a win against Iowa if the best available wrestlers were on the team.

PatCoach - When I saw you defending your fellow coach and his team selection method I originally thought you were just being nice, but NOW that the full lineup is available on Track, I see exactly why you were doing so. You also have kids on the team that were obviously selected using the daddy ball method. Good for your team's kids that were "selected" because you are coach and too bad for other wrestlers who might have been more deserving from a results standpoint but don't have a coach in the AAU preferred circle. Another hard lesson taught by wrestling: life is not fair and not everyone gets the same opportunity, many times its all about who you know. I'm sure no one from TN AAU or the coaching staff will respond because I'm certain they cannot offer a valid explanation why this team was assembled in the manner it was. And that's fine, I just hope everyone gets to see an example of how wrestling in Tennessee works. It appears this is just the way it is done, the Jr/Sr team is somewhat better but there are kids who were left out to put coaches' kids on the team there as well. But really, we shouldn't be surprised, this is after all, a Tennessee AAU based team and TN AAU has always operated as if the state stops at Nashville.

Bottom line, the communication around and assembly method of this team was bad. There is a statewide coaches email list that could have been used to get the word out to everyone to allow the opportunity for those most deserving the opportunity to participate. There are some very good wrestlers on our team but also appears some that were placed on the team because of the selection process. Nothing against KG but I feel like since it was his responsibility and opportunity to represent the state by coaching this team then the issue is his to own. Hopefully we can learn from this and in the future our National Team coaches will do a better job putting together a more representative team to include the whole state and not just the eastern half.

I'm not mocking you KG and I'm sorry that your feelings are hurt but sometimes truth stings. Nothing said in my message was untrue. I've personally talked to 5 coaches from Regions 7 & 8 and have heard secondhand from a few others that NONE of them were ever contacted about this opportunity. I think it is a great opportunity for those who were chosen to go on the trip and never did I say any of them were unworthy. I DID however, say that there are others who, given the opportunity, might have earned a spot on the team but your method of selecting the team deprived other well deserving wrestlers an opportunity. Is it coincidence that the two organizers of the team have almost half of the represented wrestlers?

Are you serious? Point being that the best freshmen and sophomores in the state should have had the opportunity to participate or AT LEAST the opportunity to wrestle off for a spot rather than a few coaches hand picking a team based on who is on their team or their buddy's team. If this was a privately supported team like Higher Calling has sent in the past then choose who you want but I'm pretty sure this is a TN AAU sponsored team and should be representative of the entire state.

I'm a bit confused as to why the wrestle offs are cancelled and a team representing the state was hand picked instead. All coaches do not monitor CoachT and there are several I've spoken with who had wrestlers (that finished ahead of some on the team) that would have been willing to make the trip but had no idea wrestle offs were being cancelled and the DADDY BALL METHOD of choosing a team was taking precedence. Six wrestlers from WC/SH and no one from West Tennessee, something seems amiss. I'm not sure who made it, but this seems like a very very poor decision.

The coach was asked to stay on the mat as the official went to the head table. Once Mike Parker came back to the mat and told the decision was final, the coach left the mat. I don't think the head coach did anything wrong, he stated his case for his kid. The fans and the assistant coach, on the other hand, were out of control. Cleveland has a great group of above average wrestlers who win the majority of their matches but they do not currently have any Chris Debiens. Their consistency wins. No one has the level of consistency top to bottom and until that is found, no one will challenge. Beech seems to be getting there quickly by scoring tons of points with a few studs. I'm not sure any of their top points scorers graduate this year (I know Rippy graduates but he only scored 15 by forfeiting out). If Beech can fill in the uppers with a few top 6 wrestlers they will be contending.

Touche!

I agree that Region 2 needs to be revamped. It seems there are some very good wrestlers out that way but some have no business in Franklin. And before you jump on me, Region 8 also has some very weak weights-it appears we will send some kids to state with losing records. The whole state could benefit from a region reshuffle.

I'm not arguing your seeding method MyBoyBlue. I was just using your Region as an example since it was the largest and Fargo was saying a region with more wrestlers would be tougher to advance through to state. My point is when a 7 seed places 3rd it is probably not the toughest region to advance through, even if it is the largest.

This is a very interesting analysis but more numbers don't necessarily mean harder competition and therefore toughest to come out of. Without studying all the 145 brackets for every region, I would say Region 4 was the toughest. Region 4 only had 6 wrestlers but the chances of a 5 or 6 seed coming out of this regions was very slim. Region 7 had 16 wrestlers but a 7th seeded wrestler placed 3rd.

145 - 6 returning medalist 120, 126, 132, 138, 195, 285 - 5 returning medalists 220 - 4 returning medalists 170, 182 - 3 returning medalists 113, 152 - 2 returning medalists 160 - 1 returning medalist 106 - 0 returning My best guess is 145 will be the toughest to place given the number of returning medalists and the layout of the bracket. 106 as would be expected has the fewest returning. 160 is VERY weak. I'm not sure why but 160 cleared out in January. I can see at least 3 wrestlers at 152 not including Rippy or Graham moving up to 160 and being finalists. I can see the tournament's outstanding wrestler award coming from 126, 132, or 145.

How would you all suggest they seed the tournament if not by using Region results? Maybe the "rankings' you are using to base your argument are invalid - 4 of the top 6 in pin-tn did not even win their own Region, yet they are top 6 in the State? Harrison Phillips, a returning medalist AND Region Champ will most likely see the winner of Wilson/James in the quarters. There are 4 returning medalists in the bottom of the bracket and only 2 up top. How would you spread it out?

Stay in shape and get in position to make the right call? You obviously have not been to a match in a while! These are the two biggest complaints I hear about officials.