stevescarb

No one has to accept a dual. The rules as they stand right now, allow a Center to be demanded by either coach. The other ref goes to one line and stays there acting as an AR, and a club person is picked to be the other linesman (not an AR). This is far preferable to a dual, but it appears that either no one in TN reads the rules, or no one is willing to step up and start protecting the players.

I disagree with anyone who thinks soccer players act worse or evan as badly as other sports. There's no data suggesting any such thing, nor is it my anecdotal experience, having attended nearly every home basketball and football game at my son's school. What I have seen is inept officiating and failure to control games from some officials. When officials fail to protect players from repeated fouls, the level of aggression increases. Thinking back on every card our team received in the last couple of years, only one was for a player initiated reason. Our team had one red card which was improperly given for what should have been a yellow card substitution proceedure foul. When contacted, TSSA refused to review the rules and forced a senior player to miss his last ever high school game. If TSSAA wants to clean up Soccer, clean up the officiating by raising their level of expertise. Increasing penalties will do absolutely nothing except make a knowlegable official LESS likely to issue a straight red. TSSAA should immediately rescind it's action and call soccer coaches and officials together to: 1: Determine if there is actually a problem that needs to be fixed or if it is artificially generated by TSSAA officials' lack of knowlege about the game and its rules. 2: Determine what can be done to raise the level of officiating, with coaches, officials, and administrators acting in concert. Officials take a beating at games and, unfortunately at times, deservedly so. 3. Discuss realistic behavioral standards. Using red card ejections as a guide would be the same thing as using Technicals Plus Foul outs as a guide to behavior in basketball. If Football players were ejected for personal fouls, soccer stats would make soccer players look like a bunch of boy scouts. Which a lot of them are, by the way. Kingston had four eagle scouts, two valedictorians, and seven players with GPA's over 4.0 this year. TSSAA is so off base on this it will give them another black eye if something isn't corrected. Steve

If a player is ejected in any other sport they have to sit out. Fouling out of a basketball game is not being ejected. There is a pervasive ignorance of the game of soccer by TSSAA, school officials, and apparently by some folks here. Knowlegeable folks understand cards in soccer can be for any number of fouls and red cards can be for physical play or unsporting behavior on some other level also. Committing a foul on a player with a clear goal scoring opportunity is a red card offense in a soccer game. It does not rise to the same level as cursing a ref or fighting but gets the same card. This is not a problem until you overlay the irrational response by TSSAA. Refs make split second decisions that are sometimes in error. ( I know this because I've done it) A classic example occurred in a Lenoir City v Oneida game where a player took a dive as if he'd been punched and another player was red carded. Video of the incident showed conclusively that there was no foul period, much less a red card foul. The card remained and the School issued a two game suspension without talking to the student. That travesty was corrected when the video was shown to school officials but TSSAA, as far as I know, never recanted the red card. Tssaa is putting itself and the referees in a position that is legally that of school administrators. This should complicate their position in at least one lawsuit they are currently defending. To treat a person who is a Soccer player differently from a person who is a basketball or football player will get TSSAA sued... It will be because there is no other remedy at this point in time and that is unfortunate. And HOYA...What you said! Truth.

This might be the worst decision yet by TSSAA, although the bar is pretty high in that regard. Are they determined to prove to everyone that they know nothing about the game...and simply don't care? Will basketball players who foul out now have to sit out two games? The use of cards in high school is so arbitrary, inconsistent, and often incorrect. There is no viable review process or viable appeal in the case of obvious error (and yes, I can document several examples). Now we are put in the situation of allowing a ref to remove a player for up to three games (the one being played and two more). Not even a school administrator has that power. Why does the TSSAA want more lawsuits?

There are several ways for a manager to get slackers to fulfill their obligations. Perhaps your repeated emails could be worded differently and sent to different recipients? Peer pressure works. Could folks pass on the news when and if the local paper publishes the tiny results?

Boy did I call this one wrong...My assessment of this game pretty much follows what has already been said, with shims4 rising to the top of the analyst pool. Farragut's guns couldn't put anything on frame through seven defenders and the great play of Bearden's keeper, although they had their chances. Bearden made hash out of Farragut's defensive plan, which Farragut stuck to right to the bitter end. Bearden's first goal was a brilliant shot from way out in the suburbs into an empty net. It seemed to fly forever. I was on the Bearden end at the time and the crowd reaction will be a fond memory. Adam made some great saves against far far too many Bearden chances, and got punished for a couple of serious mistakes. As for Bearden's offensive mvp, I can't figure out whether it should be Beaden's keeper, Brian(?), whose massive punts gave his three forwards a ton of 50-50 balls at the Farragut 30, or the Farragut defensive formation...Where was the fourth horseman? He missed the Apocolypse. As for the officiating...it made no difference in the outcome and was pretty good overall, but... Farragut lost two goals on offsides calls. I was hanging with several club coaches who thought Farragut got robbed on the first one, and so did I. I was well out of position on the second call and so was the AR. Those two calls going the other way would have made for a much more interesting game. The non-call on the handball looked correct to me also, and anyway, I think Mr. Compton has already given out his pk award for this year. The game was physical but, other than a couple of muggings, was pretty clean. The Bearden yellow card was fairly earned and fairly given. Lots of no calls on pushing and shirt tugs. It's dangerous to let that go in a heated rivalry like this one. Both teams played with the intensity we expect from these great rivals. I think there will be one more meeting this year.

Well, dangit....I picked the wrong game to go to. Glad you folks had it covered. I predict there will be one more meeting between these two teams, in spite of my record of prognostication for tonight's games. Let's go All Knoxville at finals. Steve

Now don't go all defensive on me, Hoya. The school names are the school names, nothing implied beyond that. I think these are all great teams, and I have to make my predictions based on the games I've seen...Apparently there are some undercurrents and unspoken rivalries that I'm not aware of living out here in the sticks. I think if you re-read what I posted, I didn't say anybody was "Clean or Not clean" and certainly didn't mean for anybody to infer such. It's no secret that I don't much like the high school game as allowed by most of our local refs, though I've seen some good officiating at times. (Kingston's regular season game with CAK, for instance, was a picture of solid officiating so I know there are refs out there who "get it".) Almost all players will get as rough as they are allowed to, which is not always a good thing. We have far too many injuries that should never happen. There is a difference between physical play and rough play. I just want them all to finish the high school season happy and healthy. And I want to watch some good soccer at the same time. update: Hey now that I re-read my post I do see how Hoya could think I was implying a particular team. sorry, my bad. Wasn't thinking along those lines so I missed it. But Hoya, "clean" is "clean" and it may vary in the eyes of the ref but there is supposed to be an absolute standard. We don't see nearly enough yellow cards at this level.

There's no way to resolve the public private debate. Some think they are simply unequal, some disagree, and there's no sense in arguing that here and now. Give it a rest and move on. As for the business at hand... Farragut over Bearden, even though I love Bearden's game. Turner does more with less but it's not enough if Farragut's defense stays home. The Gorgeous Game of the Christians vs the Wrecking Crew of the Catholics is harder to call. The ref crew could have some bearing on this one. The refs keep it clean and CAK plays their game, I give them the edge... but then I thought they would win District. At this point I get to sit in the stands and cheer for everybody. Which ever way these games go, the rest of the state has a problem if we can keep 'em all healthy. (You listening, refs?)

I simply meant that Karns had the better Coach and Farragut had the horses. The original post on this thread implied as much. Please don't read anything into what I wrote that wasn't there. I could have chosen more specific wording. I'll try to be more specific in the future, given the tendency to look for fault on internet forums. Nothing more was intended so the somewhat defensive reactions aren't warranted... Particularly the name calling, OTP. I don't denigrate Coach Culbreth's commitment, but I do understand that a champion is the sum of all the parts. And, After all, I did just pick Farragut to win the title.

I don't feel overly confident in calling this one, but I have to say that it's close but Bearden takes it. I like the West style of play but in the end I don't quite see them containing Bearden. I could be totally wrong and this is the game I would like to see if I didn't have obligations.

Karns has by far the better coach in Mike McClean, but that just won't help against a team dominated by his own club players. Knowing a player's weaknesses won't help you if you don't have the power to deal with his strengths. Farragut wins this one in spite of their severe disadvantage in the coaching department. Farraget's players will take the team the rest of the way, too, I predict. Enjoy it, Boys!

Ok, look. We have two sets of rules that do pretty much the same thing. In FIFA USSF, etc. the clock never stops. the ref just decides when the game is over and I guarandangtee you it never ever is ended before a penalty kick is taken and it is never advised that it end on a viable attack unless the attacker is ahead. In NHSF rules, the clock stops when the ref calls for it to stop. Cards, subs, injuries, etc. happen off the clock, and so would a penalty kick. it is a semantic game but amounts to the same thing. It's all about the "spectacle" as I've heard it referred to. You folks must be thinking it's about who wins the game but that's not the tradition, nor is it the rule. It's about entertaining the fans...something we haven't quite realized or gotten around to in this country.

A game ends when the ref blows the final whistle. The question is when should the ref blow the final whistle? When he feels like it. Very few refs will end a game on an attack... Seen it done... I've never done it. The ref is supposed to be managing the time for subs, injuries, and other stoppages, but they rarely actually repay the game for every second of stoppage. Because of the inherent inaccuracies of time keeping, It is customary to allow an attack to end before announcing end of play. If a goal is scored the ref can allow a few seconds after the ensuing kickoff before the final whistle, but all of this is at the discretion of the ref. If a contest situation has limited the ref's discretion and the ref plans to end time at a certain point no matter what, a smart ref will manage this situation by announcing the remaining time to the players. you feel slighted because the whistle sounded on your attack but if the ref had said "Ten seconds" and then blown the whistle accordingly, you would have still been bummed out but you would have accepted the call more easily.

I'm in DC and missed the game. I, too, was surprised but I celebrated. I got several calls telling me about it and I boil it down to something like: In the first half, Karns controlled the ball and Kingston scored the goals. There were some Senior night activities at the half, Kingston came out less focussed, and Coach McClean "made some adjustments" for Karns. The Karns attack took advantage of a tired Kingston defense and tied the game. The deciding goal was a pk but there was no question about it being a penalty kick. (at least according to the Kingston folks ;>) It had to be interesting for Coach McClean see from the other side what it's like to try to contain Thomas Scarborough. Mike has done so much to develop Thomas's game on the U19 Impact and then gets two goals scored against him by Thomas as a thankyou.

Tough job ranking teams like this. some small input on A/AA Region 2: Alcoa seems about right. Kingston played them in a scrimmage and they were doing good things. Admitted that both coaches were moving players around and several starters were missing but it was a good game. Stone Memorial should be above Seymour by a good bit. (Watch SM over the next few years. They seem to have brought in an actual soccer coach) Too bad there's not enough interplay between the two districts in our region during the regular season. Kingston is 7-1 in District play. Thomas Scarborough tweaked a knee at Loudon Friday so that could dash their hopes of catching CAK asleep at the wheel but they will still finish 3rd in District no matter what. Stone Memorial and Kingston both deserve to move to Region play but with two powerhouses like CAK and Catholic in the same District...Oh well. The good news is that ranking teams is getting harder and harder because their is no longer a clear divide between Best and Second Best. I like that.

I have been looking for the NFSHSA Soccer rules online and can't find them. Apparently you have to buy them or buy a membership in an organization that then lets you into a members area where they can be viewed. Why aren't high school rules available to everyone? USSF rules certainly are. What gives? Or maybe I'm wrong and someone can direct me to a site, please...

"i if put karns than south-doyle people will throw fits " Now there's a lesson in logic. After I checked the scores for both teams against powerhouse opposition...why aren't they both on there? I know you got it tough, MJ but you set yourself up. No Worries, though...We know Kingston should be right below Alcoa. And yes...McClean coaches the U18. (I had to ask my kid to be sure. it changes every year, you know.)

To the "Worthy" their due. Though I have different thoughts about his "playing at the next level" thread, let him remain as anonymous as he wishes.

That's correct but not quite what I am thinking. A few years back it would have been difficult to fill a teaching position with someone who was qualified to coach a HS soccer team. Now there are a ton of soccer players and potential coaches with teaching certificates. maybe not with the credentials of Coach Pifer or Coach G or Coach McClean, but certainly better than the Varsity football coach's nephew who had never seen a soccer ball in person before. (True, but don't get me started) I think it's time for School admins to give the students who play soccer the same consideration they give football players. The offseason noncontact rules are inane at best and probably illegal. I understand the potential for abuse but it's not much greater than the actual abuse of the off season conditioning rules in football.

Time to either notice Karns or take Oak Ridge off the top 30. I'm thinking Oak Ridge deserves to be there, so... The Karns coach is new this year. Coach Mike McClean is the Impact U19 coach who has taken the team to consecutive state championships and Championship of the Premier League. No fair hiring a real soccer coach, Karns! Is it time for all other schools to follow that lead? Congratulations, Karns. Mike is a great coach who actually likes his players.

I've heard that from other schools. I don't know about everyone's situation but we set a budget for the year and have fund raisers to meet spending requirements. We know how hard it is to raise money and would help if asked. If any school hasn't asked for three refs because of financial dificulties, I strongly suggest they let the visiting teams know the situation in advance and see if the visitors would be willing to pay for the third ref. I guarantee Kingston would be glad to help out.

I would put more stock in being named coach of the year by the players.

I was curious about that, too. If anybody is open to a lawsuit, why isn't it TSSAA for allowing a ref system that is considered unworkable in the rest of the world and most of the USA? I have a ref friend who says,"Duals make good refs go bad." I agree that there's more here than we know about. I don't like the fact that a lawsuit is involved because that probably means very few people who know much about soccer are going to be involved in the resolution. I stand by the football chop block analogy. It's not about football, it's about a foul that causes lasting harm to a player.

I think you meant "Aren't always caused on purpose" but that isn't the point of the lawsuit. Aggressive play in a manner that can cause harm isn't supposed to be allowed. the refs are supposed to decide what is and isn't play in a manner that can cause harm. Having said that, I'm dissappointed in having soccer involved in a lawsuit such as this one and criminal charges being brought against a player. What do they hope to achieve? Money? If it's help with the medical bills, I can see that but why sue the coaches? I suspect that will be tough to win, but a lot of harm can occur in the meantime. The assault charges are even worse. If they bring charges for a soccer foul, I guess every down linesman who commits a chop block in American football will have to go to jail from now on.