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I agree Huntsville volleyball is ahead of Nashville volleyball.  They should be.  They have at least two strong club programs, NASA and RCVC, and maybe one or two more in the area.  In addition, those girls go straight from their club programs into high school programs where the coaches are, in many cases, the coaches from NASA and RCVC.  In addition, McGill Toolen's (great team from Mobile) coach was the coach at Spring Hill College.  You can't hardly compete with that.  I only know three programs in the Nashville area, Franklin, BGA and Harpeth Hall, that have coaches with strong volleyball coaching background.  As far as club programs in Nashville go, their weakness lies in the lack of great coaches available in this area.  There are only a handful of quality coaches for a large number of teams. 

You are right about Alabama volleyball getting closer to Louisville volleyball.  I believe one reason is that volleyball is appreciated, respected and reported on in both those states.  Great athletes are attracted to the sport.  From what I've seen, only the Chattanooga papers do a decent job of following high school volleyball in Tennessee.  I rarely see articles in any Tennessee newspapers about our college and university volleyball teams.

You do need to do a little homework on one comment you made.  Huntsville High School volleyball is not made up mostly of NASA's 14 year old team. That makes for interesting reading but is simply not true.  They have one 8th grader, one freshman and four or five seniors and the rest juniors and sophomores.  Their junior setter is injured.

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Ivolley is right about the coach's. Being a college coach does not equate to knowledge. Siegel's coach coached in college for 4 years and I have watched a lot of small school volleyball where the coaching was average at best.

 

For example in district 7AAA almost every coach atleast played in college, which makes a hugh difference.

 

The difference in players is starting age and talent...in my opinion.

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Friday Pool Play:

Pool A - 1 Sacred Heart, 2 Huntsville, 3 Hoover, 4 Homewood

Pool B - 1 Grissom, 2 Vestavia, 3 Manual, 4 Cordova

Pool C - 1 McGill, 2 Germantown, 3 Oak Mtn, 4 Harding

Pool D - 1 Bob Jones, 2 Brentwood, 3 Bayside, 4 Spain Park

 

Saturday Pool Play:

Pool AA - 1 Bob Jones, 2 McGill, 3 Grissom, 4 Sacred Heart

Pool BB - 1 Huntsville, 2 Brentwood, 3 Germantown, 4 Vestavia

Pool CC - 1 Oak Mtn, 2 Bayside, 3 Hoover, 4 Manual

Pool DD - 1 Harding, 2 Homewood, 3 Cordova, 4 Spain Park

 

1st Round:

Bob Jones def. Spain Park

McGill def Cordova

Sacred Heart def. Harding

Grissom def. Homewood

Huntsville def. Manual

Brentwood def. Hoover

Germantown def. Bayside

Vestavia def. Oak Mountain

 

Quarter-Finals:

Bob Jones def. Vestavia

McGill def. Germantown

Sacred Heart def. Huntsville

Grissom def. Brentwood

 

Semi-Finals:

Bob Jones def. Sacred Heart

Grissom def. McGill-Toolen

 

Championship Match:

Grissom def. Bob Jones (a bit of a surprise)

 

Well, this was a killer tournament indeed.  The top 4 teams were identifyable early.  The next 4-5 were noticeable too.  But any of the top 8 could be interchangeable on any given weekend.  It was truly a showcase of great teams.  Brentwood lost in the quarter-finals to Grisssom, which was the third Huntsville area team to give them a loss.  BHS also lost to Huntsville High and Bob Jones.  Bob Jones may have been the best team in the tournament (although losing in the finals), beating McGill, Grissom, and Sacred Heart respectively.  Bob Jones, Huntsville, and Grissom are stocked full of NASA kids whose 14 and 15 yr old club teams both faired well in Open at Salt Lake, and whose 17 yr old team won SRVA Regionals and made it to Salt Lake as well. 

Clearly, the best Huntsville volleyball is a step ahead of the best Nashville volleyball at this point, and I might dare say is well within reach of even Louisville's top teams.
Huntsville's team is comprised mainly of NASA's 14 yr old team, and their setter is an 8th grader and she is very good. B'wood had a shaky tournament on Friday and early Saturday, and started playing like B'wood in the second game against G'town and rolled over Hoover. Germantown is good, though relying on MH #5 heavily. She did a great job powering 2's in the middle mainly to the right back corner. She got in trouble when having to hit to the left. Their OH's are not as strong as their middles, and they served nothing but deep floaters. But they can hang with anyone in TN for sure. Their match with BHS was very close, but B'wood won in two. Grissom is always good and the two teams battle back and forth year to year, so a close match ws expected. Both games were close, 23-25 and 20-25. B'wood plays in the Southeast Challenge in Southside, AL this weekend and has Bob Jones in their opening pool again. Should be a great opportunity to improve again, as they did this weekend.

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Well, it looks like we both need to eat our words. Brentwood came in second only to McGill Toolen in the Southside tournament, beating Bob Jones and Georgia state champs Woodward to advance to the finals. Clearly the best of Huntsville (and Atlanta) is NOT a step ahead of the best of Tennessee volleyball. Not a word about this in the Tennessee newspapers. No surprise there. Not even a word is mentioned about this feat on the Brentwood website. I had to find it hidden away on an earlier post. I only had to go to the Louisville newspapers to find out the results of the Louisville Invitational that Harding Academy and Huntsville High played in. Huntsville lost to Butler in the Silver Championship. Harding lost somewhere in the silver bracket. I guess we were wrong again. Huntsville volleyball is not yet in reach of the TOP Louisville volleyball teams. I still contend that lack of good, consistent coaching in strong club programs is the problem in Tennessee. Obviously the TALENT is here. Under the current club program, Tennessee will produce a few great players and maybe a high school team like Brentwood who can compete at a higher level. But unless the clubs in Tennessee start adopting the practices of the successful, established clubs around the country, they will never produce the numerous competitive teams and players that come out of Kentucky, Alabama and Georgia, to name a few.

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I still contend that lack of good, consistent coaching in strong club programs is the problem in Tennessee. Obviously the TALENT is here. Under the current club program, Tennessee will produce a few great players and maybe a high school team like Brentwood who can compete at a higher level. But unless the clubs in Tennessee start adopting the practices of the successful, established clubs around the country, they will never produce the numerous competitive teams and players that come out of Kentucky, Alabama and Georgia, to name a few.

 

Thank you BeCool for your comments. First a generalization then a question.

 

Generalization- there is one club in Tn (Impact), one club in Ala (NASA), and one club in Ga (A5) that are clearly a step ahead. Impact gets THE draw from an area of 570,000. A5 recruited most of the best in an area of 4 million. NASA is most impressive by dominating from a city with "only" 200K. I think my point is :D that the dominant club from areas as large as Nash. and Atlanta "should" be ahead of the smaller areas. I am NOT discounting Impact and A5, they do things very well, but give me an extra 3.8 million or 380K people to scan thru and I could probably have come up with a few extra points per game too. NASA is the one to look at as a model. Anyway...

 

Question. What practices do you see as the most beneficial for clubs and/or HS programs to adopt? Thank you.

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Thank you BeCool for your comments.  First a generalization then a question.

 

Generalization- there is one club in Tn (Impact), one club in Ala (NASA), and one club in Ga (A5) that are clearly a step ahead.  Impact gets THE draw from an area of 570,000.  A5 recruited most of the best in an area of 4 million.  NASA is most impressive by dominating from a city with "only" 200K.  I think my point is  B)  that the dominant club from areas as large as Nash. and Atlanta "should" be ahead of the smaller areas.  I am NOT discounting Impact and A5, they do things very well, but give me an extra 3.8 million or 380K people to scan thru and I could probably have come up with a few extra points per game too.  NASA is the one to look at as a model.  Anyway...

 

Question.  What practices do you see as the most beneficial for clubs and/or HS programs to adopt?  Thank you.

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What NASA does well, as does every great program, is offer consistent coaching. They train their coaches to coach the same way at every age group and level. They also provide developmental programs for their players, such as, strength training and jumping programs. You only have to go to their website during the season to see what they are up to. A-5, the newest Atlanta club, is a wonderful example of how to run a club. Before they started, they looked at what all the clubs in the Atlanta area (I can think of at least 5 others) were doing wrong, then they researched what all the great clubs in the country were doing right, and then established their club. You should check out their website. Once at their website, go to "The A-5 Difference" and check out #2 under missions and goals. It talks about how they insist on consistent coaching from age 12 through high school. Coaches must attend mandatory coaching clinics. That is one program TN clubs MUST adopt if they want to compete. They also need to offer that additional developmental training that the top clubs offer. Obviously, when you look at A-5's website you realize they have tremendous community support and funding. However, the creators of A-5 aggressively pursued that help. They knew it took a lot more than knowing volleyball to run a club. It is a business with all the headaches that come with that. The best clubs are partnerships of business talent and volleyball knowledge and leadership.

High school ball will always be at the mercy of the quality of the coach. That's why strong club programs are so important.

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What NASA does well, as does every great program, is offer consistent coaching.  They train their coaches to coach the same way at every age group and level.  They also provide developmental programs for their players, such as, strength training and jumping programs.  You only have to go to their website during the season to see what they are up to.  A-5, the newest Atlanta club, is a wonderful example of how to run a club.  Before they started, they looked at what all the clubs in the Atlanta area (I can think of at least 5 others) were doing wrong, then they researched what all the great clubs in the country were doing right, and then established their club.  You should check out their website.  Once at their website, go to "The A-5 Difference" and check out #2 under missions and goals.  It talks about how they insist on consistent coaching from age 12 through high school.  Coaches must attend mandatory coaching clinics.  That is one program TN clubs MUST adopt if they want to compete.  They also need to offer that additional developmental training that the top clubs offer.  Obviously, when you look at A-5's website you realize they have tremendous community support and funding.  However, the creators of A-5 aggressively pursued that help.  They knew it  took a lot more than knowing volleyball to run a club.  It is a business with all the headaches that come with that.  The best clubs are partnerships of business talent and volleyball knowledge and leadership.

High school ball will always be at the mercy of the quality of the coach.  That's why strong club programs are so important.

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Consistancy in coaching from a young age is also what makes Ky. clubs like KIVA and MAVA successful. I wish someone had made note of that when my daughter was 12 yrs. old.

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Consistancy in coaching from a young age is also what makes Ky. clubs like KIVA and MAVA successful.  I wish someone had made note of that when my daughter was 12 yrs. old.

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BINGO! That's it in a nutshell. The younger they start the better they will be when they get to high school. Louisville girls start even before 12 on the KIVA teams. By the time they make a KIVA 12 Red team they have been playing a few years in the catholic school system. Obviously great coaching is key also, but even if the coaching were just average(it's not) the extra playing time would still generate great players.

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BINGO! That's it in a nutshell. The younger they start the better they will be when they get to high school. Louisville girls start even before 12 on the KIVA teams. By the time they make a KIVA 12 Red team they have been playing a few years in the catholic school system. Obviously great coaching is key also, but even if the coaching were just average(it's not) the extra playing time would still generate great players.

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Starting at a young age is extremely important, and many girls in this area have been playing club since they were 11 or 12. But even more important is consistent coaching. Because you have that great coaching in your area, you may not be aware of how fundamental it is to the club program. Sounds like you have layers of good coaching in your area (Catholic school system and club). We are not so fortunate here.

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Starting at a young age is extremely important, and many girls in this area have been playing club since they were 11 or 12.  But even more important is consistent coaching.  Because you have that great coaching in your area, you may not be aware of how fundamental it is to the club program.  Sounds like you have layers of good coaching in your area (Catholic school system and club).  We are not so fortunate here.

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becool is on point. If you have spent any time around club volleyball, you notice the vast difference in Louisville club volleyball and Nashville/Tn club volleyball. It's not even close. The top teams in each age division for KIVA generally play "Open" in club tournaments, whereas the best you would see from a Tn club is in the "Club" division. All you have to do is look at KIVA and see where the director of the club spends his time. With the young teams! He consistently coaches the 14's and from what I have heard from KIVA parents is that all of KIVA's coaches instruct in the same consistent way. Look at their website and check out the credentials...it's pretty impressive compared to what Impact can produce. I'm not knocking Impact but the difference is vast and this is with an area (Louisville) that is 50th in population whereas Nashville is ranked 39th. Shows that numbers aren't the whole story but coaching has a great deal to do with the level of player that KIVA is producing.

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Well, the other side of that coin is that not only do the Louisville kids start much earlier, but also that the majority (if not all) of the Kiva red teams play together at Kiva AND Assumption. Ron has done an incredible job with both programs. But he has also been blessed with a great situation in that his kids can play both for his school and club, so they are working together constantly. Some of the schools in TN are starting to do that, but they don't have that kind of experienced talent or coaching to make it benefit them yet. I know Brentwood has wanted to do that for years based on Ron's model. But even with the talent BHS has had over the past 10 years, I don't think they could have had a better club team with all BHS players than the best Impact teams created by combining the talent from other schools. In Assumption's case though, they have the best players so it works for them. But you can't compare Kiva and Impact, because no one in the country that I know of has a situation like Kiva/Assumption. Why else do you think Louisville, in the the middle of the mideast (aka nowheresville) has teams that beat the SoCal and Texas teams? Because Ron has created a great dynamic situation, plus they get to play the best teams from a much stronger area including Chicago, Indy, Michigan, and Ohio, and KHSAA does not step in and dub them with a 50/50 rule like Alabama has.

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Well, the other side of that coin is that not only do the Louisville kids start much earlier, but also that the majority (if not all) of the Kiva red teams play together at Kiva AND Assumption.  Ron has done an incredible job with both programs.  But he has also been blessed with a great situation in that his kids can play both for his school and club, so they are working together constantly.  Some of the schools in TN are starting to do that, but they don't have that kind of experienced talent or coaching to make it benefit them yet.  I know Brentwood has wanted to do that for years based on Ron's model.  But even with the talent BHS has had over the past 10 years, I don't think they could have had a better club team with all BHS players than the best Impact teams created by combining the talent from other schools.  In Assumption's case though, they have the best players so it works for them.  But you can't compare Kiva and Impact, because no one in the country that I know of has a situation like Kiva/Assumption.  Why else do you think Louisville, in the the middle of the mideast (aka nowheresville) has teams that beat the SoCal and Texas teams?  Because Ron has created a great dynamic situation, plus they get to play the best teams from a much stronger area including Chicago, Indy, Michigan, and Ohio, and KHSAA does not step in and dub them with a 50/50 rule like Alabama has.

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Bottom line... once again. A great club system and consistent coaching are the difference. We don't have a great club system or great coaching (consistently). Please stop putting the blame where it does not belong. Assumption, though obviously the best, is not the only great high school team in Louisville. KIVA girls are playing in high schools throughout the area. There are no 50/50 rules here, so why aren't TN teams at least better than Alabama teams? Take one guess. Please don't say talent, because that is such a coaching cop out. There will NEVER be a great club in TN until someone does things right. Why not use KIVA or A-5 as a model? It's going to take someone with great vision to bring that to TN.

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"A great club system and consistent coaching are the difference."

 

OK, define consistent coaching. Do you mean coaching strategies or experience level? Do you mean philosophies or tendencies? Draw me a model of the "perfect coach" or "perfect club".

 

Hard to define and build it...but easy to criticize, especially in anonymity. A great club takes time to evolve, and that is happening here in Nashville, and in Chattanooga, and in Memphis, and in Knoxville. The state's vb is getting better every year. Fact is, you only get out of it what you put into it. More kids are playing club every year, thus the level of vb in TN is getting better all the time. There is more parity now than ever, as should be evident from this weekend's Brentwood Invt. Some of the state's best teams got together and put on quite a show. BGA beat Ryan. HH beat Germantown. Both unlikely in recent history. Because of the coaching? Maybe. But more than likely because of the talent. BGA has a great coach, but also a great bunch of Freshman that are contributing plus some upper classmen with tons of experience in club. HH has a good coach. But would they have won and reached the finals without Taylor? Maybe, but not likely. Germantown beat Brentwood a game 25-9. 25-9!! Is that because of the coaching? The same two coaches have been there for over a decade. No, because of the play of the kids.

 

And as far as TN vs Alabama or TN vs KY....BHS and Grissom have been swapping blows for years. It goes back and forth. This year Grissom won, barely. Before it was Brentwood. McGill came to the BIVT in 2003 and didn't make the Gold division, but won the AAAAAA State Championship over in Alabama. Does that mean that AL was inferior to TN that year?

 

This weekend my team went to Louisville for a tournament and won, (not losing a game) and beat Sacred Heart in the finals 25-18, 25-19. Does that mean that all TN is getting better than KY? Of course not. My point STILL is that each team is different, each club is different, EACH COACH IS DIFFERENT, even in Kiva or Nasa. There is no "perfect" system. You cannot generalize that this area or that area is better or worse in coaching, on the whole. There are too many variables, yes including talent, and more importantly EXPERIENCE of the players.

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