Different Region, Different Call

[clifford20]

I can hardly wait either VBallDaddy78.  The Brentwood people always put on a great tournament and their parents do an excellent job with the food.  They probably will have 4 courts - courts 1 & 2 in their main gym, court 3 in their auxillary gym close to the main gym, and court 4 at Brentwood Middle which is just down the block - most people just walk to it.  There will be top notch officiating here - maybe even TheGreatLineJudge will make an appearance.  I'll warn you in advance to watch your ball handling as they call things a little closer than East TN officials.

 

See you Friday afternoon.

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Pageman you are right but "a little closer" should be more like " a lot closer".

 

It is unbelievable to me how different the calling is in East Tn. I am not saying we are right or they are wrong...but is not even close.

 

if you get an East Tn official at State then you can basically get away with most borderline lifts that you would not get away with here. It is an advantage sometimes. And again...i honestly don't know who is right or wrong sometimes.

[PageMan]

In all fairness to the East TN officials I saw at Red Bank, they called the BHE's the same for both teams. Since the tournament at Red Bank was running behind most of the time, they may have been letting things pass in order to keep the matches moving. The problem is that when teams get away with things, it hurts them when they reach the state where things are called tighter. I know that when I have gone to the state tournament in the past, I have seen teams getting called for BHE's and have no idea what they did wrong. I also have seen tight officiating from Nashville area officials while officials in Southern Middle TN call things a little looser. I wish the officiating could be more consistent from area to area, but I guess each supervisor has their own interpretation of what they want their officials to call or not call. Maybe TGLJ could enlighten us about the variance between regions.

[ComPassion]

I ended up sitting by Father Ryan fans often on Sat ..and the officiating had to be frustrating for them. One match anything went and the next match not even legal things were legal. And, "East Tn officials" isn't really it, the Chattanooga officials are different from the Knox officials, Chattanooga officials are ALL across the board.

 

Yes, a more uniform standard would be great for the state ..but that is scary because the dominant characteristic of Tn officials as a whole is that we call WAY, WAY too many things illegal that aren't illegal. Not that it's tight, just that it has nothing to do with the rule book. They call it "calling technique". You see it when they call any one hand set illegal even if it is contacted for a shorter time than a set. You see it when a blker is recovering a ball that is falling down, they just blow their whistle no matter what the contact was. You see it when a digger makes an athletic, but ugly two hand dig and they call it even when it wasn't held any longer than a setter's contact. You see it when a setter has to "invent" a set on a tight pass and touches it in a new way, but contacts it shorter than a traditional set. You see it when a digger makes an open hand save that rebounds off MUCH faster than a set but they call it because the ball hit their palm ..which is not the rule nor the intent of the rule. There are still some who call any serve receive with a set illegal.

 

So, Middle Tn and Nash, Knox and Chatt all have officials who have this regressive view that has nothing to do with the rule book or the good of the game ..a view that occurs as "If it is not a set, pass or spike like I learned it 30 yrs ago then I am going to blow my whistle no matter what the rule book says because that's how we do it in these parts." Then, some of the influential officials can't grasp that a VB match is not about them getting to show how many things they can deem to be illegal, it's about the kids getting to play!

 

The players in Tn are more advanced than the officiating and the bulk of officials who have made up these local, "watch me blow my whistle", standards are muzzling player's growth and creativity in the sport. So, a state standard scares me as long as the "watch ME blow my whistle" officials are calling the shots. After a match I asked one of them why he called a one hand set illegal when it came out twice as quickly as her two-hand set. The answer typifies what we see all across the state, "Well, that's how we call it around here." 'Makes me sick. VB exists to be PLAYED by kids, not to be officiated by "watch how many things I can call illegal" adults.

[PageMan]

Thanks, ComPassion - good explanation. I guess coaches will have to scout officials and have a game plan that includes his or her style of calling. Just kidding, but when you're unfamiliar with how an official calls things it's frustrating for both coaches and players. Teams that travel out of their normal region should be prepared for anything and home teams will have an advantage because they know the officials most of the time - another home court advantage so to speak. I think the supervisor for the Nashville area is Elaine Mitchell and she could be at Brentwood this weeked along with Diana Chalfont and Diane Beasley - all top notch officials who also call matches for college teams, I think. Teams coming in from other areas of the state, i.e. Memphis and East TN or the Chattanooga area, should be ready for tight calling of their BHE's.

[KYdigsTN]

Lafayette had some problems with the officiating during the Page classic. Several officials would call lifts when our girls returned first ball with a set. This was a little frustrating because this call is not made in KY. First ball serve receive here is almost anything goes. Also, very few officials would call double contacts and there were a BUNCH of them. Our girls got away with some too, but for the most part our girls make very few of those type errors so it was definately an advantage to a couple of the lesser teams we were playing for the officials to be letting them go.

 

In our own tournament this past weekend we had some officials that didn't call double contacts either. My theory on this is that in both of our states the level of play can be so bad in some areas officials get used to letting ball handling errors go. I dont like it, but I prefer to believe that than having officials that just dont understand the rule.

Edited September 12, 2005 by KYdigsTN

[clifford20]

Lafayette had some problems with the officiating during the Page classic. Several officials would call lifts when our girls returned first ball with a set. This was a little frustrating because this call is not made in KY. First ball serve receive here is almost anything goes. Also, very few officials would call double contacts and there were a BUNCH of them. Our girls got away with some too, but for the most part our girls make very few of those type errors so it was definately an advantage to a couple of the lesser teams we were playing for the officials to be letting them go.

 

In our own tournament this past weekend we had some officials that didn't call double contacts either. My theory on this is that in both of our states the level of play can be so bad in some areas officials get used to letting ball handling errors go. I dont like it, but I prefer to believe that than having officials that just dont understand the rule.

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THe interesting thing about all this is, I am not sure who is making the right call.

Compassion you are right about Chatt...I forget that is considered East TN. There is a difference between Knox and Chatt. And just to be clear I am not saying that East Tn officials are bad. There are some good officials over there, just much different then Middle.

[TheGreatLineJudge]

I'm bringing together some posts from the BIVT thread and then I think I'll go on a rampage about statewide variances, mid-state variances, and occasionally perhaps my own. I will say that a better-quality match should lend itself to good officiating... high quality ball = high standards for calling. Low quality ball = lower standards, more difficulty establishing a standard, sometimes more difficulty deciding to call or not. I'll stop before I keep going in this initial post.

[Cowboys Up]

Ok, I'll take the bait. This past weekend, ER must have had all the officials that knew what they were doing, because there was only one ref at Red Bank out of 8 or 9 matches that we played that knew what they were doing. They never called lifts, double hits on sets, or 4 hits (even though there were no blockers up, how the heck does that happen!). I have never seen anything like it! They were terrible!!!!! I'm not a coach, but I did some officiating in club ball for several years. Now I sit at the score table, I can see very well and I about blew a gasket this past weekend! There has GOT to be a way to get most everyone in the same ballpark as to what constitutes a lift, double hit, etc. It absolutely puts the teams that play in an area that has lax refs at a disadvantage when they get to the state tournament. That is just not fair. Is Elaine in charge of those officials? Cause she ought to do something, it has gotten to be ridiculous!

 

I'd much rather have a ref that calls a tight game than one that doesn't call anything. The good refs make you play clean and to standards. That's the way it should be.

[oldsetter]

[

I'd much rather have a ref that calls a tight game than one that doesn't call anything.  The good refs make you play clean and to standards.  That's the way it should be.

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1st: Long time reader, first time poster. :justwrestle: Always wanted to say that.

 

2nd: I agree 100%

 

3rd: Isn't this exactly opposite to the post downing "regressive" officials that call by the rules stiffling the "creativity" of players with poor fundamentals?

Edited September 13, 2005 by oldsetter

[ComPassion]

Oh, I've figured it out! It's all related to the time of matches, the only available persons to call games are either:

1. Unemployed, therefore mad and call everything

2. Work at the church, therefore too nice and won't call anything

3. Work 3rd shift, therefore too tired to care either way

4. Self employed, therefore they think they get to make their own rules! :justwrestle:

 

It is a dilima, however you spell that. How do you train new dogs old tricks and how do you train old dogs new tricks without running them off because no one wants to be consistently criticized for close to volunteer pay? ...it's sad that I said that ..but, honestly we know that many of the "experienced" refs have in their mind that things will only change over their dead bodies, so training or exposure to modern volleyball is seen as a nuisance. We can't expect a new official to be good with no training, and it's fruitless to be mad at them, they're trying. It's the older officials who equate calling tight with calling technique, they are ones who are holding back the sport's growth in Tn.

 

We can whine all day, Judge what is someone gonna do?

[Cowboys Up]

[

I'd much rather have a ref that calls a tight game than one that doesn't call anything.  The good refs make you play clean and to standards.  That's the way it should be.

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1st: Long time reader, first time poster. :justwrestle: Always wanted to say that.

 

2nd: I agree 100%

 

3rd: Isn't this exactly opposite to the post downing "regressive" officials that call by the rules stiffling the "creativity" of players with poor fundamentals?

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Hi oldsetter, welcome to coacht!

[TheGreatLineJudge]

Time for a rant.

 

Inconsistency. The last word one should think of when one refers to officials. But it's the first word many think of when considering volleyball rules enforcement statewide. Some beg for Nashville officials, others dread them. Why is this? Do some go into matches knowing they can get away with sloppy play and downright illegal hits? Likely. Would you dare say it's part of some folks' strategy? Perhaps. From the posts I've read and other things I've heard, here's what pops out at me:

 

 

-Double contacts... this would be primarily with setting, though not necessarily. It takes considerable focus and attention to the setters hands to nail this down. It's not technique. It's not how it sounds. It's now how the finished product looks. It's how the finished product was made that matters. What I often see is what I refer to as either "bang bang" or 'misfiring'. The timing of the hands is off enough that the left hand comes 'under', per se, the right and hits it immediately after the left.

 

My personal belief is that you have to have a foundation of rules knowledge and rules interpretation before you can know what to call, how to call, and then actually get the correct call/non-call made.

 

 

-Illegal hits... Everybody's favorite! The most common flavor is that of prolonged contact. The ball rolls off the arm. The setter pulls a deep dish. The setter makes a bad set that rolls off the fingers (and subsequently sinks into her hands). The attacker throws the ball instead of really hitting it. The receiver deep dishes the first ball over (doubles are ok on first ball over-- not two attempts!... but prolonged contact is NEVER legal, regardless of situation)

 

Many flavors and ways to earn an illegal hit call.

 

 

-Four hits... Third hit is a spike that hits the tape, no contact by a blocker. Simple four hit call. But I've seen too many officials (even one is too many!) seemingly give credit to a blocker who just jumps and makes a nice effort to block, when they really didn't. You have to watch the ball and see if it just bounces off the tape or if someone did indeed get a piece.

 

-Overlaps/back row attack-block... No mention of this! Out of all those matches, odds strongly favor at least ONE overlap on one team at some point. Gotta know positions before you can call any of these three. They go hand-in-hand with one another.

 

 

And yet all these are basic rules. Granted, catching the non-obvious sets (where the right elbow shoots a foot above the left elbow on a set... ok, a little overdone, but you get the point) and knowing the alignments comes with time and experience. But isn't this Chattanooga's best tournament? At least the most well known? Shouldn't this merit the best available people being there?

 

Different region, different call. Yeah. Perhaps a better training program would help. Wait! We don't HAVE a training program statewide! Nashville put one in for its bunch, and it helped newer officials improve by leaps and bounds. The whole reason we are inconsistent, as a state, is because there is no statewide standard or way of getting standards across. The only thing in place is a sorry excuse for a state rules meeting. And it is very sorry. I think most coaches in the state know (and hopefully would say) that no training or even remote attempt at training goes on there.

 

What our state needs is for volleyball to get some RESPECT by the powers that be, and then for some folks to get put in charge who are serious about improving the quality of officials and training said officials. A state boss who knows how to train, and a state boss that really and truly loves high school ball (don't forget the middle school too.. they become our high school teams), will implement real changes and get real results. Until that day comes, people like the readers here.. who care about volleyball and the girls and who desperately want real change in officiating and its consistency and its quality.. we will continue to be frustrated about our situation.