Kentucky Split Debate heats up

[DS2001]

Sentiment for a Public-Private split in Kentucky may have reached the tipping point as 5 Catholic schools will compete for the 4 state titles up for grabs.

In the highest classification, Lousville Trinity and Louisville St Xavier will play for the title at Papa Johns Stadium. St Xavier won it`s semifinal game against Warren Central 62-12

Many public school coaches are saying enough is enough.

[FadePattern]

http://kentuckypreps.Unapproved Website/forum.asp?...fid=937&style=2

 

I hope it is ok to link to this site. If not then I apologize in advance.

 

I find it interesting that much of the Kentucky rhetoric about the subject is similiar to the earlier debates that we had here in TN.

[big red big blue]

Sentiment for a Public-Private split in Kentucky may have reached the tipping point as 5 Catholic schools will compete for the 4 state titles up for grabs.

In the highest classification, Lousville Trinity and Louisville St Xavier will play for the title at Papa Johns Stadium. St Xavier won it`s semifinal game against Warren Central 62-12

Many public school coaches are saying enough is enough.

 

I can't imagine they've made it this long. Look at the 4A results on the KHSAA website. There are only a handful of years, since 1975, when someone other than St. X or Trinity has won it. There are roughly 1,400 boys at either St. X or Trinity, in 9-12 only. By comparison, there are 660 boys at MBA, 7-12. 640 boys at MUS, 7-12; and 880 boys at McCallie, 6-12. Baylor has 1,000 co-ed; BA has less than 400 co-ed. I looked at Trinity's results and they have blown out everyone on their schedule except for St. X, whom they lost to.

 

Let the record of course reflect that MBA, with less than half the number of high school students, has beaten Trinity 2 of the 3 times they've played.

Edited November 28, 2005 by big red big blue

[silverpie]

That's the other factor scrambling things in Kentucky--T&X are not only private, but also huge! Both would still be in AAAA even without the double for all-male, with St. Xavier in particular the seventeenth-largest in the state. To further note, football is the only sport in Kentucky with any classification.

 

Also, curious that all five of the privates in the finals are Catholic. With Livingston's surprise run (leaving public-private aside, how many 4th-place teams make it to the 'boro?) eliminating the two Eastern Catholics and the D2 wins by DA and MUS, no Catholic school will finish as a Tennessee state champion this year in football.

 

And in a further note, Florida has dropped its urban/rural (almost but not quite the same as public/private) split of the northern half of 1A, instead splitting it into large and small sub-groups as was already done with 2A. (For what it's worth, the larger group has an all-public final this year, the smaller public v. private.)

[cbg]

Why are the Catholic schools in Kentucky better than the other schools in football. Is it not 99.9% Catholic students attending Catholic schools? Do they not have the mission to educate all Catholic students first?

[DLHSFAN1]

I preface these comments by saying I send my son to David Lipscomb, however I attended a rural high school in Southern Kentucky.

 

St.X and Trinitys rivalry has pushed the envelope as far as competitive advantage for the privates. They have significantly upped the ante over the last ten years.

 

That being said I spoke with my best friend, who watched the St.X and Warren Central game, said St.X numbers (close to 100 players) wore WC out. He said they would rotate the whole offense line every 3-4 plays. He also stated that privates won 18 of 21 championships in the Kentucky last year. All privates in Kentucky can offer financial assistance to athletes and you play your classification on size (no multiplier)

 

I do not know the answer to the public/private issue, but the adding of more championships water all championships down and increase expenses for all schools. Since there are no classifications in KY basketball, there was nothing more fun than taking on the big boys. I was at a 1a school and had to play the 4a schools. Now we lost more than we won against the bigger schools, but those wins were special.

[Generally Speaking]

Yes the Catholic "mission" is to educate the Catholic kids the schools may have unused capacity. Why wouldn't a non-Catholic who can afford the tuition want to attend these schools if there is a perception, real or not, of a better educational opportunity. There also may be better athletic opportunities.

 

While there are need-based scholarships available to ALL students at most of the KY Catholic institutions, there are limits as to how much of the total tuition it can cover. I believe that most of the schools can award up to half of the annual tuition to a student as long as there are scholarship dollars available. These funds are privately administered by independent organizations similar to those used by colleges. They also must be approved by the KHSAA.

 

 

There are other sports governed by the KHSAA that are classed besides football. Track and Field and Cross Country also are classed with 3 each for boys and girls.

 

I feel that in KY the argument with the publics has an awful lot to do with levelling the playing field. It's funny that the only playing field that they want to level though is between the bigger publics and the privates. Nobody cares about how unlevel the playing field is between the urban and rural schools. That to me is where the greater inequity exists.

[silverpie]

Yes the Catholic "mission" is to educate the Catholic kids the schools may have unused capacity. Why wouldn't a non-Catholic who can afford the tuition want to attend these schools if there is a perception, real or not, of a better educational opportunity. There also may be better athletic opportunities.

 

There are other sports governed by the KHSAA that are classed besides football. Track and Field and Cross Country also are classed with 3 each for boys and girls.

 

I feel that in KY the argument with the publics has an awful lot to do with levelling the playing field. It's funny that the only playing field that they want to level though is between the bigger publics and the privates. Nobody cares about how unlevel the playing field is between the urban and rural schools. That to me is where the greater inequity exists.

 

My point on the Catholic schools is just curiosity as to why the Catholic schools are so much more powerful than the other privates even in Kentucky, when in Tennessee they are not. Surely the mission isn't that different?!

 

Apologies for the error on Kentucky's classifications.

 

And I've been stating for quite some time that if you look at what's really happening in Tennessee, even at the large-school level, you find that rural schools are dominated by urban ones in most sports.

[Generally Speaking]

While KY might have a number of small Christian schools(Louisville,Lexington, and Calvary come to mind) the overwhelming majority of privates are Catholic. Lexington Christian did win the KY State Baseball Championship(1 Class) this year. For the most part these privates are smaller right now. I don't know about Tennessee but I'm guessing there are more non-Catholic private schools in TN.

 

I would say that this year except for St X and Trinity the stars aligned for the other 3 classes to each have a Catholic school. Lexington Catholic, who for most of the KY publics is Darth Vader, made the State Finals for the 1st time in their history. They have had really good football teams year in and year out but managed to get over the hump this year.

[big red big blue]

My point on the Catholic schools is just curiosity as to why the Catholic schools are so much more powerful than the other privates even in Kentucky, when in Tennessee they are not. Surely the mission isn't that different?!

 

Apologies for the error on Kentucky's classifications.

 

And I've been stating for quite some time that if you look at what's really happening in Tennessee, even at the large-school level, you find that rural schools are dominated by urban ones in most sports.

 

interesting question...is there a large Catholic population in Louisville? Almost 3,000 boys in Catholic schools is staggering...are there other non-religious private schools there competing with them for students? Something about Father Ryan I've always thought is that they really don't reach out to non-Catholics much. Maybe some catholic schools are more willing to do that than others...but plenty of catholic kids go to MBA.

 

WRT to urban-rural, the 5A schools in Nashville have been terrible and greatly underperformed every other region in the state. As I've written on other threads, the largest, McGavock, with 2000+ students, has only one play-off win in the 26 year history of the school. Gallatin and Hendersonville, the non-Nashville teams in 5-5A have done much better....While Sumner county isn't "rural" it's not an urban environment....

[Antwan]

interesting question...is there a large Catholic population in Louisville? Almost 3,000 boys in Catholic schools is staggering...are there other non-religious private schools there competing with them for students? Something about Father Ryan I've always thought is that they really don't reach out to non-Catholics much. Maybe some catholic schools are more willing to do that than others...but plenty of catholic kids go to MBA.

 

WRT to urban-rural, the 5A schools in Nashville have been terrible and greatly underperformed every other region in the state. As I've written on other threads, the largest, McGavock, with 2000+ students, has only one play-off win in the 26 year history of the school. Gallatin and Hendersonville, the non-Nashville teams in 5-5A have done much better....While Sumner county isn't "rural" it's not an urban environment....

 

Sumner is not rural or urban? What is it rurban or urbal?

[silverpie]

Looking at the Census Bureau's definitions, the "urban core" of Nashville is counties Davidson, Sumner, Williamson, and Wilson. (Rutherford is actually semi-separate.) That's not to say that every square mile of those counties is urban by any means. But looking out across the map, there are six counties that tend to win overwhelmingly on an all-sports basis (the big four plus Rutherford and Williamson). Sumner is one of a few that has been known to challenge those (also Sullivan, plus two schools--Oak Ridge and Tullahoma--that have benefited from federal involvement in their areas). Blount County seems to be just a football power, and similarly with Montgomery in wrestling.