Jump to content

Better than I will ever be able to say it


Recommended Posts

Here is an article by Bernie Miklasz that is 100% exactly my feelings as to why McGwire, Sosa, Bonds, and every other slugger from the "Steroids era" of baseball deserves to be in the Hall of Fame. I know that everyone else who posts here has been suckered in by the media's portrayal of all these guys, but these are my feelings nonetheless.

 

And before everyone writes him off as a St. Louis homer, go and read a lot of his articles. He doesn't give free passes.

 

Emphasis in bold.

 

Why I voted YES for McGwire

By Bernie Miklasz

ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH

12/17/2006

 

Sports Columnist Bernie Miklasz

[More columns]

 

After considerable but unnecessary agonizing, I've decided to give Mark McGwire a check mark on my Hall of Fame ballot.

 

To an extent this "Yes" vote is wasted, because McGwire has no chance to gain clearance to Cooperstown. McGwire won't come close to picking up the necessary 75 percent approval rating among this year's electorate.

 

So I've come to consider my "Yes" vote as more of a protest vote.

 

More on that later.

 

Steroids debate aside, I think McGwire qualifies on the baseball-numbers test. His statistics haven't been purged by Major League Baseball. Unlike Pete Rose, McGwire was never banned from the game or excluded from the Hall of Fame ballot. No asterisk has been placed beside McGwire's 583 career homers. His statistics count. And as long as those numbers are officially recognized by MLB, I will also recognize them.

 

Critics point to McGwire's .263 career batting average as a minus, and a reason to lump him in with, say Dave Kingman. That's disingenuous at best, considering McGwire's high walk rate and career .394 onbase percentage. His slugging percentage (.588) is 10th best all time. His combined OBP and slugging percentage (.982) ranks 13th. He's seventh on the list of career HRs. His rate of one homer for every 10.6 at-bats ranks No. 1. He made 12 All-Star teams and won a Gold Glove.

 

There were holes in McGwire's overall game, so he doesn't have automatic Cooperstown numbers. Making sluggers wait for the call to the Hall is nothing new. Mel Ott (511 homers) was confirmed on the third ballot; Harmon Killebrew (573) didn't make it until his fourth time; Jimmie Foxx (534) was voted in on his fifth try; Eddie Mathews (512) got there on the sixth ballot. But that's dramatically different than slapping McGwire with a de facto Hall of Fame banishment. I won't consider going along with that unless Major League Baseball takes definitive action against him.

 

Unless MLB makes an official finding and rules that (1) McGwire used steroids or other illegal performance enhancements to cheat, and (2) therefore his stats should be revised or stricken from the record, I refuse to do Commissioner Bud Selig's job for him. MLB gave its tacit approval and endorsement of McGwire's pharmaceutical routine in the late 1990s, when he was so boffo for business. MLB helped create the McGwire monster, so let MLB figure out what to do with him now. I'm not Selig's enforcer.

 

As voters, the Hall of Fame asks us to consider a candidate's integrity, character and sportsmanship. Fine. There's something positive to be said about McGwire's qualities as a teammate, and for his efforts in raising money for abused children, and for the honor he showed in walking away from a guaranteed $30 million contract at the end of his career.

 

That's one side of the character issue. The other, of course, is the specter of steroids. But is it fair to single McGwire out for punitive punishment, based on mere suspicion? We can safely conclude that many players pumped themselves with black-market muscle builders in the 1980s, 1990s, and into the 2000s until MLB began testing for steroids. But does anyone really believe that the game is clean now, considering the easy availability of human growth hormone and the absence of a test to detect that HGH?

 

MLB finally banned amphetamines before the 2006 season. Do we dare even bother to estimate how many enshrined Hall of Famers gulped the now-outlawed greenies to get an artificial energy boost? With the constant shifting of rules and standards — what was once acceptable is now criminal — it seems rather extreme to draw the line at McGwire.

 

Various forms of cheating have been going on for so long, how can we possibly determine what's authentic? As voters, how can we erect a barricade to block McGwire from Cooperstown when we let so many real or alleged cheaters pass through in the past, and will let more pass through in the future? If we ban McGwire because we're PRETTY SURE he did steroids, then are we prepared to shut out an entire generation of players based on doubt? How can we be entirely certain that any player is clean?

 

McGwire was weak in his 2005 testimony before a congressional subcommittee, but that notorious strikeout occurred 3 1/2 years after McGwire's retirement. When C-SPAN or Tim Russert have a Hall of Fame vote, they can assess McGwire for his performance on Capitol Hill.

 

Unlike many of my colleagues who now fashionably demonize McGwire less than a decade after fawning over his 70 home-run pyrotechnics and transforming him into a national hero, I refuse to be two-faced.

 

If a voting member of the Baseball Writers Association of America (BBWAA) held fire on the topic of McGwire and steroids in 1998, they surrendered the moral high ground on the debate over his Hall of Fame credentials.

 

If a voting member of the BBWAA chose to glorify McGwire in 1998, then they're being phonies if they condemn him now, because we had strong steroid suspicions in '98.

 

My "Yes" for McGwire is also a vote against blatant hypocrisy.

Edited by Solomon
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 37
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Here is an article by Bernie Miklasz that is 100% exactly my feelings as to why McGwire, Sosa, Bonds, and every other slugger from the "Steroids era" of baseball deserves to be in the Hall of Fame. I know that everyone else who posts here has been suckered in by the media's portrayal of all these guys, but these are my feelings nonetheless.

 

And before everyone writes him off as a St. Louis homer, go and read a lot of his articles. He doesn't give free passes.

 

Emphasis in bold.

 

I agree 100% with this guy.....That was put better than any of us could put it....Thanks for putting that up Sol.... :blink:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

None of the three deserve to be in the Hall of Fame.

 

None of them deserve to be in the Hall of Fame.

Muffin I agree. Solomon I am disappointed in you. In your zeal to remain loyal to the Cardinals you have sacrificed your principles for the sake of "Mark I will lie to congress while under oath Mcgwire". Very disappointed. My ideas about you were that you were a purist who would protect the integrity of the game but alas I was wrong. Let me ask all of you guys a question. If a guy was in the world series of poker and he was caught with an ace up his sleeve what would happen? If Jeff Gordon was found to have put dry ice and nitros in his engine what do you think would happen? If a President sent men to brake into the Democratic National headquarters and steal campaign plans what do you think would happen? Wait a minute that did happen, sorry remember Watergate. I know what you are going to say. Mcgwire has never officially been caught and I am sure you believe that one half of the Bash Brothers deserves the benefit of the doubt but unlike Mcgwire Jose Canseco told the truth and that at least deserves some minimal respect although he profited from it. No one who cheats should be honored or recognized. If Shoeless Joe Jackson who played his but off in the 1918 series but just took the money can not get in then do not give me all of this doubletalk crap from some biased liberal sportswriter. When a man compromises his principles and those things that he holds dear to his heart like character, integrity, and loyalty then there is no more room for that man to grow. Solomon the game should not be played at a win at all costs mentality. If the Redsox never win another World Series and play the game the right way I will be fine. But if I was to find out that Manny and Papi were on steroids in 04 then I would be crushed. It is about character Solomon. Never forget that. ^_^

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Muffin I agree. Solomon I am disappointed in you. In your zeal to remain loyal to the Cardinals you have sacrificed your principles for the sake of "Mark I will lie to congress while under oath Mcgwire". Very disappointed. My ideas about you were that you were a purist who would protect the integrity of the game but alas I was wrong. Let me ask all of you guys a question. If a guy was in the world series of poker and he was caught with an ace up his sleeve what would happen? If Jeff Gordon was found to have put dry ice and nitros in his engine what do you think would happen? If a President sent men to brake into the Democratic National headquarters and steal campaign plans what do you think would happen? Wait a minute that did happen, sorry remember Watergate. I know what you are going to say. Mcgwire has never officially been caught and I am sure you believe that one half of the Bash Brothers deserves the benefit of the doubt but unlike Mcgwire Jose Canseco told the truth and that at least deserves some minimal respect although he profited from it. No one who cheats should be honored or recognized. If Shoeless Joe Jackson who played his but off in the 1918 series but just took the money can not get in then do not give me all of this doubletalk crap from some biased liberal sportswriter. When a man compromises his principles and those things that he holds dear to his heart like character, integrity, and loyalty then there is no more room for that man to grow. Solomon the game should not be played at a win at all costs mentality. If the Redsox never win another World Series and play the game the right way I will be fine. But if I was to find out that Manny and Papi were on steroids in 04 then I would be crushed. It is about character Solomon. Never forget that. ^_^

 

A Red Sox fan talking purity of the game.....funny considering your Sox are one of the four platforms that have ruined the game of baseball (With your brethern Yankees, Scott Boras, and Selig being the others). Maybe it is just me, but I feel that the market escalating to the point that Jeff Suppan just getting $10 million+ a season is a much bigger issue in baseball than steroid use. And your little arms race with the Yankees is what started this whole mess anyway. And when everything explodes, it's going to make what happened in the NHL look like mere child's play. But dad gum it the Yankees/Sox rivalry is the best thing in the world for baseball.

 

But to answer your questions.............

 

As for character, then let's please kick out the Babe, Ty Cobb, Mickey Mantle, and Joe Dimaggio. Babe hardly had any character in his personal life. Cobb, well, I don't think a self-proclaimed racist should be in the hall. Mantle played the game drunk on several occasions - his lack of respect of the game should keep him out. Dimaggio - affairs, and probably the single greediest player ever to play the game. If we're going after character, then let's keep all people out who showed a lack of it.

 

I will just focus on the WSOP. If one player has an ace up his sleeve and gets caught, kick him out and even use old west punishment for him if you feel like it. However, if several players are playing with an ace up their sleeve, it is widely known by the organizers and players, then don't cry foul and try to make them the bad guys when it inevitably comes out they played with an ace up their sleeve the whole time. The organizers were either too cowardly to do something about it or enjoyed the publicity they were getting too much to be concerned with it.

 

As for Canseco, my feelings for him are just like the others. The problem is that he probably had hall of fame talent but not a hall of fame attitude/work ethic. Ask any GM or player that ever had any dealings with him. Probably one of the laziest players of my lifetime. See my various posts of entitlement and anger because he never amounted to what he should have been. If he had hall credentials, I would say he should be in as well, but take any scandal aside, and his career was not hall material. When his name is mentioned, my first thoughts of him are not steroids, his magnificient 88 season (first memebr of 40/40 club), or his 483 homers (I think), but instead that ball bouncing off his head for a home run or throwing his arm out because he wanted to try to pitch so bad (yet didn't have time to work on other stuff that could have made him a hall of famer).

 

As I have said the whole time this started, no one cared about steroid use from 94-01 because interest was up and home runs were cool. That is players, owners, MLB brass, and media. And you would have to either be nieve or stupid not to recognize something was going on then. But no one said one word about it. However, when it becomes trendy to bash steroid use, every writer that praised these guys 5 years ago (ok granted, this is the major media I am speaking of so it is possible most were too stupid to realize something was going on and have recently realized it) because they can profit off of it. Newspapers, ESPN (espeically ESPN), etc. Sorry, right or wrong, I don't sway with the wind.

 

Yes, I hate steroids and the use of it and hope it is gone from baseball. Yes, I wish Mac could have hit 70 "naturally" (yes - I know he took steroids). But no, I also refuse to turn on someone because I turned a blind eye on them and what they did way-back-when when I knew better because I benefitted from what they did.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Let us stay on the subject. The Yankees and my Redsox ruining baseball is another subject for another thread. By the way neither one of them won the World Series last year your Cardinals did despite our Evil Empires. Also the Angels, Marlins, and Diamonbacks also have won championships this Evil decade. If your trying to say Ruth, Mantle, Cobb, Dimaggio, and others are not good people then that is your opinion but do not lump them in with cheaters. I think that is highly unfair. I am not saying Mcgwire is not a nice guy or that I do not like him because I think he is a likable guy. I respect him for the relationship he has with his ex-wife in raising their son the way they do but that does not mean you get a free pass to the Hall of Fame. I mean we are talking about the Hall of Fame. This should be at least the one place in professional sports were do not get a free pass. Let say he and some others are great players but they should not get into the Hall of Fame for cheating. Come on Solomon it is the HOF....or did I already say that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Let us stay on the subject. The Yankees and my Redsox ruining baseball is another subject for another thread. By the way neither one of them won the World Series last year your Cardinals did despite our Evil Empires. Also the Angels, Marlins, and Diamonbacks also have won championships this Evil decade. If your trying to say Ruth, Mantle, Cobb, Dimaggio, and others are not good people then that is your opinion but do not lump them in with cheaters. I think that is highly unfair. I am not saying Mcgwire is not a nice guy or that I do not like him because I think he is a likable guy. I respect him for the relationship he has with his ex-wife in raising their son the way they do but that does not mean you get a free pass to the Hall of Fame. I mean we are talking about the Hall of Fame. This should be at least the one place in professional sports were do not get a free pass. Let say he and some others are great players but they should not get into the Hall of Fame for cheating. Come on Solomon it is the HOF....or did I already say that.

 

You used the world "charater." That applies on and off the field. But fine, leave the others, but of Mantle could not respect the game enough to at the minimum play it sober, then he also does not deserve to be in the HOF.

 

How about pitchers? What is Gaylord Perry most known for (and I have a career minor leaguer relative who got to catch him one game)? Never heard nary a peep about jerking him out of the Hall. If we're going to crack down on known (or in this case supposed as we have no solid evidence to the contrary) cheaters, then let's get all of them out.

 

Also, for the record, I can't stand Pete Rose, but there is no evidence whatsoever he gambled as a player, which is what he should be in the HOF for, and I think he should also be in. Same goes for Shoeless Joe.

Edited by Solomon
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Point of fact Red Sox guy, McGwire never lied to Congress, that was Palmero. McGwire refused "to talk about the past", but did not lie to Congress. The physical evidence looks pretty evident that McGwire, Bonds, Sosa and many others were on the juice along with many others who did not get called to testify before Congress. McGwire is indicted in public basically because he refused to "talk about the past" in front of Congress. If Palmero doesn't get caught 2 months after lying to Congress, he would receive serious HOF consideration. So will many others with the numbers who did not have to go before Congress who we are "pretty sure" used the juice. You can't indict him for his use of Andro, it was legal and not a banned substance when he played--it was displayed openly in his locker.

 

I guess the point here is McGwire has the misfortune of being called before Congress and not lying, but casting much suspicion on himself and also being first of the "steroid" guys to be eleigible for the Hall. He did not lie to Congress and he never was "caught" using the juice. Roger Clemons was mentioned by someone as a steroid user late last year--it it true?--who knows, he did seem to revive his career at a late age--do we keep him out on suspicion. Where does it start and where does it stop. How do we know 50% of all MLB players were not on the juice during the 90's. Do you keep them all out on suspicion. Because Mcgwire, Sosa, and Bonds are the "poster boys" doesn't make them more guilty. There was no testing during this era, what if Cal Ripken kept going with a "little help" (not suggesting he did, just an example). It just seems unfair to single a few out when it was a prevalant baseball problem during this era.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You used the world "charater." That applies on and off the field. But fine, leave the others, but of Mantle could not respect the game enough to at the minimum play it sober, then he also does not deserve to be in the HOF.

 

How about pitchers? What is Gaylord Perry most known for (and I have a career minor leaguer relative who got to catch him one game)? Never heard nary a peep about jerking him out of the Hall. If we're going to crack down on known (or in this case supposed as we have no solid evidence to the contrary) cheaters, then let's get all of them out.

 

Also, for the record, I can't stand Pete Rose, but there is no evidence whatsoever he gambled as a player, which is what he should be in the HOF for, and I think he should also be in. Same goes for Shoeless Joe.

I am a big Pete Rose fan,if the steroid users are allowed in the H.O.F.,then I am more upset than ever.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

Announcements


×
  • Create New...