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RII D4-AA Who's gonna make it out of this battle


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Bigdawg.. the fan was making a legit point... until you came in with your pointless jabber about how you hate catholic and sulivan blah blah... Either make an educated point or don't respond with your pointless hate towards catholic... it gets nothing accomplished

 

Thanks

 

Didn't see the legit point. Was it saying that without Byrge, Pack, Stooksbury and the Guinns AC isn't near the team. Brilliant observation there with the 5 players heading to college to play. Short of Farragut who wouldn't suffer with the loss of 5 players of that caliber? Was it that Seymour killed AC without near the players I think Kyle Koeneman who's been a National Player of the Week at Walter State may have had something to do with the loss. Was it that the umps didn't know the rules and caused the Irish to lose? I just hate people blaming umps when there are generally several other plays that had more of an influence on the outcome. Only pointless jabber was the statement about the map which was intended to show that the other teams have actually made that trip not just talked about it. Certainly no harsher or hateful than Mr. Fan saying that AC has choked coming out of the district or Ballistics saying that they lacked mental toughness. Granted maybe a little harsh with that but everything else certainly seemed educated. Maybe my private school education is overrated?

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Well 2 years ago was a different team, they have obviously lost quite a few of the players that got them there. Byrge, Pack, the 2nd baseman (can't remember his name) and the 2 gwinn boys. I just think this year the Irish will prevail in the district. From what I remember last year Seymour tagged the ace Byrge, for 6 or 7, AC put up 1. State champion caliber teams win those games, hey I'm not saying AC hasn't been good, or isn't good, I just think this year there number is up in the district. I think it means more to KCHS because they haven't been there. I mean even the 2nd game between AC and KCHS the umps screwed up that call on the ground rule double, if that call is made the right way KCHS sweeps AC, and we aren't having this discussion.

 

 

Well Duh! Of course its a different team it was 2 years ago. Bottom line is that AC has reloaded from last year and the year before. I mean from top to bottom AC is solid. How many highschool teams could go through that many coaching changes in less than a year and still leave everyone behind in the district. That not only says something about the caliber of players, but it also shows what type of men are raised in Anderson County. Those boys are tough, and gritty. Simple Fact of the matter is that the numbers speak for themselves. In the past 3 years how many district games has AC lost, how many times has AC gotten out of the district? Answer the same questions for Sullivan and his boys. You can't even compare AC and Catholic in post season accolades. Whats funny about the whole thing is that Catholic is a private school. They have the money, they have the nice field, they think they are the cream of the crop, they think they are better than everyone else, and why? Because they pay tuition, or have more money at their school. Bottom line money can't buy you a Championship. You have to earn your way in the world, especially on the diamond. So don't cry about umps, and use that as an excuse for failure. And yes Seymour did beat AC last year it was certainly not the game I anticipated as a fan, but hey its baseball. At least AC can say they have gotten there. As far as it meaning more to Catholic we'll just have to see. When I think of Catholic I think of what Elbert Hubbard said "A failure is a man who has blundered but is not capable of cashing in on the experience."

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Well 2 years ago was a different team, they have obviously lost quite a few of the players that got them there. Byrge, Pack, the 2nd baseman (can't remember his name) and the 2 gwinn boys. I just think this year the Irish will prevail in the district. From what I remember last year Seymour tagged the ace Byrge, for 6 or 7, AC put up 1. State champion caliber teams win those games, hey I'm not saying AC hasn't been good, or isn't good, I just think this year there number is up in the district. I think it means more to KCHS because they haven't been there. I mean even the 2nd game between AC and KCHS the umps screwed up that call on the ground rule double, if that call is made the right way KCHS sweeps AC, and we aren't having this discussion.

 

 

And what did AC do to get to region? Oh yeah thats right, they beat Catholic 3 times (twice in regular season, once in district). You can talk about a sweep all you want, because I agree thats what it should have been. Its just the other way around. Catholic hadnt made plays like they did that night all season. Guess it was everyone's birthday obviously. One inning in that game killed AC. Other than that, AC pretty much out played Catholic. If you disagree with that, maybe you should find out what out played really means. Im sure the people from Catholic have a different definition for that word as they seem to do with everything else, as in the ground rule double call. He did touch 1st, the ball was throw to 1st for the tag out. Until he touches 1st, the bag is still a force. Maybe their rule book is in a different language??

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You can't even compare AC and Catholic in post season accolades. Whats funny about the whole thing is that Catholic is a private school. They have the money, they have the nice field, they think they are the cream of the crop, they think they are better than everyone else, and why? Because they pay tuition, or have more money at their school. Bottom line money can't buy you a Championship. You have to earn your way in the world, especially on the diamond. So don't cry about umps, and use that as an excuse for failure. And yes Seymour did beat AC last year it was certainly not the game I anticipated as a fan, but hey its baseball. At least AC can say they have gotten there. As far as it meaning more to Catholic we'll just have to see. When I think of Catholic I think of what Elbert Hubbard said "A failure is a man who has blundered but is not capable of cashing in on the experience."

 

Ballisticswizard, I found your comments about Catholic to not only be off topic, but rambling, unsupported, and bitter-sounding. I'll simply go in order.

 

1.Yes kids at Catholic have money. I would say this is because their parents work very hard for it and simply want their kids to do well in life. However, if you knew what you were talking about and took a closer look, I believe that you'd find that a good proportion of the school is much like you and me(Yes I said me. Alas I was not blessed with a BMW for my 16th birthday). In fact, many kids at the school go for free because they cannot afford the tuition.

 

2.Yes, Catholic has a very nice field. It is even more amazing from my standpoint, because I remember when it terrible. Yet again, a closer look would reveal that all the great facilities for their baseball program came from hard work and sweat. The green monster was built as a result of countless fundraisers and was actually put up and secured by the team (Yes, the ditches were dug, the wall was placed, and every other aspect was done by players and coaches). But in case your not a fan of raising your own money through fundraisers, I'm sure we can contact local government officials and see if they will provide welfare for baseball programs from now on.

 

3. As for Catholic thinking that they are the cream of the crop, I have two responses. Just like any school, there are kids at Catholic that may think they are better than others or have a big head about themselves. I would dare you to find a school where there was not. However, I would argue that as an institution, Catholic is indeed a very good school, or cream of the crop as you put it. The facilities are nice (also built with fundraised money), the teachers are caring and talented (a product of their hardwork, not money), and of the 99% that graduate, most go on to attend college (money helps this, but keep in mind that you must have the scores to be accepted).

 

4. You state that we think that we are better than everyone else, because we pay tuition and have some money. Has someone explicitly told you this, or have you developed this concept in your head because Catholic kids wear polo shirts, part their hair, and enjoy life?

 

I will agree with you on a few things though. Money can certainly not buy championships. If it could, then none of us would win anything considering other school in the area have much more money than Catholic. Additionally, I totally agree that you have to earn your way in the world. I would say that the priviledge that kids at Catholic experience is a product of their parents earnings their way. We cannot blame someone who was born into a good situation for taking advantage of it. I wish we all could live that well. Finally, I find it funny that you quoted Elbert Hubbard on a baseball post. I would say that since he lived mostly in the 1800's and was a literary figure known for his intellectual arguments that his comment has nothing to do with baseball (in context of course). Regardless, I would say that Catholic kids do cash in on their experience, seeing as how most graduates go to college, excell, and become successful. Even more interesting is that you chose an author that is known in large part for his biographies of other great writers (about 180). Maybe you should have chosen someone who has more original things to say like Cormack McCarthy. I believe Hubbard would agree that he cashed in on his experiences, considering that McCarthy's inspiration comes largely from his experiences in life. McCarthy is a Pulitzer Prize winner for The Road and might be more well known for the novel No Country For Old Men. I bet old Elbert might have even written a biography for Cormack had he been alive. Oh and by the way...did I mention that Cormack McCarthy was a Knoxville Catholic graduate?

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Ballisticswizard, I found your comments about Catholic to not only be off topic, but rambling, unsupported, and bitter-sounding. I'll simply go in order.

 

1.Yes kids at Catholic have money. I would say this is because their parents work very hard for it and simply want their kids to do well in life. However, if you knew what you were talking about and took a closer look, I believe that you'd find that a good proportion of the school is much like you and me(Yes I said me. Alas I was not blessed with a BMW for my 16th birthday). In fact, many kids at the school go for free because they cannot afford the tuition.

 

2.Yes, Catholic has a very nice field. It is even more amazing from my standpoint, because I remember when it terrible. Yet again, a closer look would reveal that all the great facilities for their baseball program came from hard work and sweat. The green monster was built as a result of countless fundraisers and was actually put up and secured by the team (Yes, the ditches were dug, the wall was placed, and every other aspect was done by players and coaches). But in case your not a fan of raising your own money through fundraisers, I'm sure we can contact local government officials and see if they will provide welfare for baseball programs from now on.

 

3. As for Catholic thinking that they are the cream of the crop, I have two responses. Just like any school, there are kids at Catholic that may think they are better than others or have a big head about themselves. I would dare you to find a school where there was not. However, I would argue that as an institution, Catholic is indeed a very good school, or cream of the crop as you put it. The facilities are nice (also built with fundraised money), the teachers are caring and talented (a product of their hardwork, not money), and of the 99% that graduate, most go on to attend college (money helps this, but keep in mind that you must have the scores to be accepted).

 

4. You state that we think that we are better than everyone else, because we pay tuition and have some money. Has someone explicitly told you this, or have you developed this concept in your head because Catholic kids wear polo shirts, part their hair, and enjoy life?

 

I will agree with you on a few things though. Money can certainly not buy championships. If it could, then none of us would win anything considering other school in the area have much more money than Catholic. Additionally, I totally agree that you have to earn your way in the world. I would say that the priviledge that kids at Catholic experience is a product of their parents earnings their way. We cannot blame someone who was born into a good situation for taking advantage of it. I wish we all could live that well. Finally, I find it funny that you quoted Elbert Hubbard on a baseball post. I would say that since he lived mostly in the 1800's and was a literary figure known for his intellectual arguments that his comment has nothing to do with baseball (in context of course). Regardless, I would say that Catholic kids do cash in on their experience, seeing as how most graduates go to college, excell, and become successful. Even more interesting is that you chose an author that is known in large part for his biographies of other great writers (about 180). Maybe you should have chosen someone who has more original things to say like Cormack McCarthy. I believe Hubbard would agree that he cashed in on his experiences, considering that McCarthy's inspiration comes largely from his experiences in life. McCarthy is a Pulitzer Prize winner for The Road and might be more well known for the novel No Country For Old Men. I bet old Elbert might have even written a biography for Cormack had he been alive. Oh and by the way...did I mention that Cormack McCarthy was a Knoxville Catholic graduate?

 

 

My comments weren't off topic, I didn't ramble I was very clear and concise, my statements are supported by facts, and believe me I'm not bitter, there is nothing to be bitter about since the "Irish Legacy" hasn't made it out of district. My comments were directly about baseball, nothing more. Not education and Cormack blah, blah, blah! This is a baseball post.

 

1.) Catholic kids do not have money their parents do. Yes I'm sure some of them work hard for their money. I'm not discussing the parents work ethic. I'm discussing the baseball programs work ethic. I have watched all the players at Catholic, I have even coached a few of them in the past, I played college ball with a catholic alumni, and summer ball with another catholic alumni. Both of them felt pretty strong about the attitude at Catholic. They both believed that the majority of the school was snobby, because it was private. So my comments are supported by facts from what I have seen and from what I have heard from former Catholic players.

 

2.) I agree Catholic has a beautiful field won't argue that. However, at Catholic outside appearances are everything. If the program put the same work ethic into hitting, pitching and fielding, as they do fundraising and facility management then their team would win more. As a former player I can tell you that the best players and programs have the intangibles, they have things that you can't build out of concrete or with money. There are funds at KCHS that don't exist for public schools, money from the Catholic Church for example. So not necessarily all of the money is fundraised, according to my former teammates as well as parents whos children use to play there.

 

3.) I don't have a problem with a player or players thinking they are the cream of the crop, however they have to back it up on the field, not in fundraising. Again I am not talking about the education, I am talking about the sports programs, baseball in particular. Why doesn't Catholic play in DII or some other private school classification? Because they would get stomped into a mudhole. You can't argue that as a private school Catholic doesn't recruit, maybe not directly through coaches, but it goes on. And don't give me this garbage about playing up a division with a multiplier. If I can hand pick my team I would be able to play up a division and compete to. I just think that its laughable that Catholic is slowly losing its chances to win a state title especially after the reclassification. Hey if your a private school then play in the private school division. If you want your kid to play for a AA state championship then Catholic isn't the place to go. Maybe they should go to a school that teaches pitchers how to make a throw from the mound to home or a second basebman how to field routine groundballs, and maybe send their coaches to the rules meeting so they are informed about ground rule doubles.

 

4.) Hey I wear polo shirts and dockers, but I don't act like a snobby arrogant crybaby. Its all in how you control your attitude. When good teams lose they don't whine about umps, and this and that. Good teams learn from mistakes and get better. When I quoted Hubbard I meant just that. "A failure is a man who has blundered but is not capable of cashing in on the experience." Catholic players and coaches haven't learned how to overcome true adversity in baseball. And who gives a flying flip about Cormack McCarthy I don't care where he went to school, could hit and 0-2 curve in the dirt? All schools have people who excel when they graduate, and those who deteriorate. The difference is that you seem to believe that it doesn't happen at KCHS.

 

I'm glad you agree about money not winning championships. Maybe you should tell your players and coaches. Its hard to be objective when your tied close to a program. If you could step back and look you might see reality instead of the mirage your spewing out all over this post. Pack a lunch and get back to me.

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There it is . Recruting. For the record Starting line-up for 2nd game against Catholic.

 

Pithcher/knox county

Secound base/Campbell co.

SS/Knox co.

Centerfield/Knox.co

Catcher/ Catholic transfer

 

I realize that the allure of an education ranked in the bottom 25% is a difficult thing to pass up . Or was playing for your summer coach. Bad when money gets you a starting spot but even worse when your taxes pay for your son's replacement. Say good things to and about your players whom all seem to be good kids and let them play.

 

It is sad when an adult has an issue with a coach and use this forum to trash kids to get off.

Hope the player hating stops.

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Ballisticswizard- You're about to fall into my category with all the "mean things" you're saying about the Irish.

 

Recruiting is probably a wash if gatalife wants to evaluate. Pretty much nailed it for AC but the Irish's top 4 players should be at Karns, AC, Carter and Bearden with an infusion of younger players that didn't go to one of the feeder schools. Just like the AC players all were brought in as freshmen with the exception of the Bearden player who is probably kicking himself about now. Recruiting edge should shift to Catholic given the strengths of the football program and the loss of Guinn. All is done within the rules on both sides before that battle starts up.

 

I agree with some of the points both sides seem to have taken.

 

1. Tend to agree with your statements(BW) but the players at Catholic are really no different than the players I've seen at Farragut, Bearden, Webb and CAK. It is what it is! AND I wouldn't say that MANY go to school at Catholic for free and if they do, I sure hope the TSSAA doesn't look into the ones that are athletes-that's illegal. Care to elaborate Irish Legacy?

 

2. All agree Catholic has what may be the best field in the state. I don't think the Catholic Church kicked in anything for the field but the family of a current player made a very large contribuition to get it started and to help with the fieldhouse later. Also 2 parents have done the bulk of the work on the fieldhouse and cage. Don't forget all the hours that parents put in on the green monster itself.

 

Let's not forget the hours of field work that were REQUIRED in order to even try out! And to think a lot of those kids were cut after being forced to work on the field for 20+ hours for the right to try out in the summer. I don't guess the coaches teach any social studies classes or the terms slave labor and/or indentured servitude would have sprung to mind.

 

3. Both teams have been pretty well hand picked based on earlier facts stated above for both.

 

gatalife- Before you start trashing people and slamming their education level, you may want to start with a spelling lesson followed by a session regarding grammar, capitalization and punctuation! See, my private school education at least paid off. /thumb[1].gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":thumb:" border="0" alt="thumb[1].gif" />

 

Irish Legacy- I'll address your question about me in a lot longer post/expose in about 12 months when there can be no repercussions to several people involved in the situation. To quote from the movie Next of Kin, "You ain't seen bad yet....but it's comin"

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My comments weren't off topic, I didn't ramble I was very clear and concise, my statements are supported by facts, and believe me I'm not bitter, there is nothing to be bitter about since the "Irish Legacy" hasn't made it out of district. My comments were directly about baseball, nothing more. Not education and Cormack blah, blah, blah! This is a baseball post.

 

1.) Catholic kids do not have money their parents do. Yes I'm sure some of them work hard for their money. I'm not discussing the parents work ethic. I'm discussing the baseball programs work ethic. I have watched all the players at Catholic, I have even coached a few of them in the past, I played college ball with a catholic alumni, and summer ball with another catholic alumni. Both of them felt pretty strong about the attitude at Catholic. They both believed that the majority of the school was snobby, because it was private. So my comments are supported by facts from what I have seen and from what I have heard from former Catholic players.

 

2.) I agree Catholic has a beautiful field won't argue that. However, at Catholic outside appearances are everything. If the program put the same work ethic into hitting, pitching and fielding, as they do fundraising and facility management then their team would win more. As a former player I can tell you that the best players and programs have the intangibles, they have things that you can't build out of concrete or with money. There are funds at KCHS that don't exist for public schools, money from the Catholic Church for example. So not necessarily all of the money is fundraised, according to my former teammates as well as parents whos children use to play there.

 

3.) I don't have a problem with a player or players thinking they are the cream of the crop, however they have to back it up on the field, not in fundraising. Again I am not talking about the education, I am talking about the sports programs, baseball in particular. Why doesn't Catholic play in DII or some other private school classification? Because they would get stomped into a mudhole. You can't argue that as a private school Catholic doesn't recruit, maybe not directly through coaches, but it goes on. And don't give me this garbage about playing up a division with a multiplier. If I can hand pick my team I would be able to play up a division and compete to. I just think that its laughable that Catholic is slowly losing its chances to win a state title especially after the reclassification. Hey if your a private school then play in the private school division. If you want your kid to play for a AA state championship then Catholic isn't the place to go. Maybe they should go to a school that teaches pitchers how to make a throw from the mound to home or a second basebman how to field routine groundballs, and maybe send their coaches to the rules meeting so they are informed about ground rule doubles.

 

4.) Hey I wear polo shirts and dockers, but I don't act like a snobby arrogant crybaby. Its all in how you control your attitude. When good teams lose they don't whine about umps, and this and that. Good teams learn from mistakes and get better. When I quoted Hubbard I meant just that. "A failure is a man who has blundered but is not capable of cashing in on the experience." Catholic players and coaches haven't learned how to overcome true adversity in baseball. And who gives a flying flip about Cormack McCarthy I don't care where he went to school, could hit and 0-2 curve in the dirt? All schools have people who excel when they graduate, and those who deteriorate. The difference is that you seem to believe that it doesn't happen at KCHS.

 

I'm glad you agree about money not winning championships. Maybe you should tell your players and coaches. Its hard to be objective when your tied close to a program. If you could step back and look you might see reality instead of the mirage your spewing out all over this post. Pack a lunch and get back to me.

 

 

We'll just go in order again.

 

1. I did say that Catholic kids have money. You are right though, the kids don't have money, their parents do. Although wasn't it implied that their parents have the money. What high school kid has the kind of money that we are talking about? A little common sense as to the context of the comment would help you out. I am curious, however, as to who you talked to or played with that hated the school so much. I can say from a standpoint of someone who is not in the socioeconomic class as the kids that dominate much of the school, that Catholic is not a stuck up or snobby school. I have gone to public and private school and from my experience, there was no difference other than the required dress code. As for your teammate's claims about the snobbiness of the school, I'll have to correct you on it. They are not facts. They are claims. I'd take the time to tell you the difference, but you probably wouldn't care.

 

2. As for the field and our outside appearances, I guess I'll just apologize now for wanting to have good facilities and for wanting to make a good impression. Tell you what, next time I go for a job interview, I'll dress in jeans and a muddy T-Shirt and tell them I'm sorry for the bad appearance, but I was just working so hard on my skill set. That would never pass in the real world and you can't blame an institution that wants to have good looking facilities. The facilities not only make a good impression, but are used for practical purposes. I'm sure every team that plays there and doesn't have to deal with a ground ball hitting a divot is thankful. I can assure you that outside appearance is not everything at that school. However, if you are going to pay for a new building or field, why wouldn't you want it to look nice. As for the players needing more practice, I would say that you are incredibly uninformed. The kids in that program work hard and try their best. The field maitenance happens after practice and on weekends when there are no games. But who am I to say that. I mean I only know the coaching staff personally, and was witness to nearly all their practices for about 4 years. Your right though...Catholic's players have often been quoted saying that they would rather take practice time to make the field look nice so that when they lose, they can at least lose on a good looking field.

 

3. As for the "hidden funds" that you think Catholic has, you are right. The Catholic church does provide money to the school so that kids can attend. Two of my cousins were beneficiaries of those funds. They were too poor to afford the school's tuition and rather than turn them away, the church and school made it possible for them to attend. I can assure you, being someone that knows the ins and outs of the institution that the money that the church provides is strictly set aside for individuals that wish to attend but cannot afford it. Additionally, Catholic is not in D2 anymore because we DO NOT recruit. D2 is a private school division that was specifically set up for schools that give athletic scholarships. Catholic does not give athletic scholarships. Believe what you want, but we don't. You are right about us getting destroyed in D2 though. We got destroyed because as a small school that does not recruit, we got demolished by schools that do recruit. I find it funny that you want to encourage HIGHSCHOOLERS to go to a school that teaches how to pitch well. Pitching well is by far the most high percentage way to make it in this world. We should all start encouraging our kids to go to sub-par academic schools for sports over a getting a good education. That attitude is what is wrong with America.

 

4.I am curious as to how you can say that Catholic's baseball program has not learned to overcome true adversity or past experience. Have you watched their program develop over the years. How good was Catholic this time two years ago. Thats what I thought. The program is making progress and they are doing it with less kids to choose from than most other schools (Again they do not hand pick their team or recruit). As for arguing with umpires, I would say that it is not necessarilly a bad thing. If we never question authority in times where we think that they have gotten it wrong, then we wouldn't have abolished slavery or become an independent nation. I know these are much larger examples, but the idea still resonates. We should not be teaching our kids to passively stand by and not question. That attitude breeds losers and followers, not leaders and people that will change our world for the better. As to you not caring about Cormach McCarthy and where he goes to school, I'll simply state that the Pulitzer prize winner went to Catholic just once more. I believe that he actually would not even try to hit that 0-2 curve ball in the dirt that you were talking about, because he had a great eye and would lay off of it. Finally, it is true that all schools have people that excell and deteriorate. I am sorry for not addressing the obvious fact that Catholic does in fact have graduates that do not pan out. My statement was geared towards the incredible track record that the majority of our graduates have. There are bad apples, but Catholic typically graduates few of them from my experience.

 

In closing, I would say that it is very difficult to be objective from any standpoint. You obviously have some ill will for Catholic in some capacity, while I obviously have great affinity for the school. I would say that I am being as objective as possible. I have a great deal of knowledge about the school and have simply conveyed what I know. I would say that you have relatively little knowledge about the school, its dealings (both athletically and academically), and its population. Where did you go to college again, I'm curious as to who you played with.

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Bigdawg.. obviously you have affiliation with the school.. therefore i am confused why you would ever badmouth a coach that coaches there... are you bitter about something? I have seen your previous posts where you are fine with the basketball team.... i guess i just dont know why you would want to slam kids that goto a school you are affiliated with?

 

Congrats to catholic for the district championship!

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