another indignity for D2

[Bighurt]

It's not like this will be the only weekday state tournament event the TSSAA holds, look at basketball and spring sports in Murfreesboro. It will probably only be a one-time happening, also.

 

Let me ask a simple question. What do you think would happen if MTSU are not available the weekend of the D1 football championship and mid-week championships were proposed for them?

[cbg]

If the D2 schools feel that they are being mistreated they have every right to take matters into their own hands and leave the TSSAA. Why would anyone pay money to an organization that does not support their wishes?

[Bighurt]

If the D2 schools feel that they are being mistreated they have every right to take matters into their own hands and leave the TSSAA. Why would anyone pay money to an organization that does not support their wishes?

 

Why is being consistent in the way that every member is treated an unreasonable expectation?

 

And I don't have a dog in the D2 fight. /thumb[1].gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":thumb:" border="0" alt="thumb[1].gif" />

[rollredroll]

Why is being consistent in the way that every member is treated an unreasonable expectation?

 

And I don't have a dog in the D2 fight. /thumb[1].gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":thumb:" border="0" alt="thumb[1].gif" />

 

 

On one of the football threads, it was stated in this post that travel costs were an overriding issue in adoption of the Z-plan.

 

Cloudland to Jellico? Try MUS to McCallie. Christian Brothers to Baylor.

 

Amazing how travel costs were not an overriding issue in 1997. I guess $1.50/gallon gas was the difference.

 

That, and the availability of private jets. Tommy Frist is a pilot; I guess he could have flown the MBA Express to the Chattanooga and Memphis games.

 

Neverthless, cbg is right. DII members could vote with their feet. I am not sure how easy that is, however.

[cbg]

On one of the football threads, it was stated in this post that travel costs were an overriding issue in adoption of the Z-plan.

 

Cloudland to Jellico? Try MUS to McCallie. Christian Brothers to Baylor.

 

Amazing how travel costs were not an overriding issue in 1997. I guess $1.50/gallon gas was the difference.

 

That, and the availability of private jets. Tommy Frist is a pilot; I guess he could have flown the MBA Express to the Chattanooga and Memphis games.

 

Neverthless, cbg is right. DII members could vote with their feet. I am not sure how easy that is, however.

 

It would be very easy. Let's not forget that the some prep schools on the East Coast play in their own league and most don't worry about playing for a state championship.

[rollredroll]

It would be very easy. Let's not forget that the some prep schools on the East Coast play in their own league and most don't worry about playing for a state championship.

 

 

Do you think it will ever happen? When do the DII schools say "enough is enough"?

 

Admittedly, I do not know what benefits the TSSAA provides its member schools; my hunch is enough to have kept the DIIs around for another decade+. Nevertheless, I would support such a move at this point.

[BLUEMOM]

I believe a separate organization would be easier said than done. If I'm not mistaken, several of the privates were part of a Mid-South conference years ago. I'm not sure of the actual reasons for the disbandment and the move to join TSSAA but I believe they were travel costs, difficulty in scheduling games etc.

 

The TSSAA is also the recognized association for the NFHS which only recognizes 1 per state. They make the the rules for the contests for the sanctioned sports that we follow. If I remember right, in order to play another school in an athletic competition they must be recognized as members of a recognized association whether in your home state or another state. If the privates wanted their own organization, as it stands right now, they would not be recognized by the NFHS which could lead to even more scheduling difficulties.

 

On quick assessment without digging through all the handbooks of all the organizations, TSSAA gains revenue from membership dues, fines, % of gate at regional/district tournaments, gates/concessions for state tournaments and officials/coaches registrations. Benefits include insurance coverage of persons/events, administration of tournaments and regulation of interscholastic play, make rules, provide enforcement, maintain website/publications, register and train officials, member of NFHS.

 

Just a few broad strokes. While not perfect, it may be the only feasible game in town for the time being.

[big red big blue]

Let me ask a simple question. What do you think would happen if MTSU are not available the weekend of the D1 football championship and mid-week championships were proposed for them?

 

 

IMO, were this to happen, the TSSAA would probably tell MTSU that they were no longer hosting the Blue Cross Bowl, because the understanding is that when you propose yourself as a host site, you agree that the games are to be played on Saturday, as they have been for the past 30+ years. If you are unable to meet your end of the bargain because you have scheduled other things on the dates required, then you have forfeited your right to be the host. Let's not forget that all the championship games were played for years at Vanderbilt as the Clinic Bowl before they were abruptly moved to Murfreesboro a few years ago because of the compelling case that the organizers there made to become the host.

 

So is the TSSAA truly out to marginalize D2, or are they really just this incompetent? There really isn't much of a 3rd choice.

[cbg]

I believe a separate organization would be easier said than done. If I'm not mistaken, several of the privates were part of a Mid-South conference years ago. I'm not sure of the actual reasons for the disbandment and the move to join TSSAA but I believe they were travel costs, difficulty in scheduling games etc.

 

The TSSAA is also the recognized association for the NFHS which only recognizes 1 per state. They make the the rules for the contests for the sanctioned sports that we follow. If I remember right, in order to play another school in an athletic competition they must be recognized as members of a recognized association whether in your home state or another state. If the privates wanted their own organization, as it stands right now, they would not be recognized by the NFHS which could lead to even more scheduling difficulties.

 

On quick assessment without digging through all the handbooks of all the organizations, TSSAA gains revenue from membership dues, fines, % of gate at regional/district tournaments, gates/concessions for state tournaments and officials/coaches registrations. Benefits include insurance coverage of persons/events, administration of tournaments and regulation of interscholastic play, make rules, provide enforcement, maintain website/publications, register and train officials, member of NFHS.

 

Just a few broad strokes. While not perfect, it may be the only feasible game in town for the time being.

 

Then how does Mt. Saint Joes (Baltimore), Bullis, (Maryland), St. Johns (DC), Georgetown Prep, Blair Academy (New Jersey), St. Marks (Texas), Collegiate (New York) etc... compete against the high schools in their state and other states?

[Bighurt]

cbg,

Since you have not answered my question about unreasonable expectations, I can only assume either you think that equal treatment is an unreasonable expectation or you just want the all private schools to leave the TSSAA or you don't care about fairness or some combination of those three.

 

BTW. big red blue blue answered my hypothetical question and I agree with his answer. MTSU would never ask for the D1 football championships to be re-scheduled or they would not be hosting them in the future.

[BLUEMOM]

I don't know how the East Coast schools do their scheduling. I'm running off my old memory banks from the BA legal saga when this point was discussed and a part of the legal argument. If I had to guess I would say...they supply their own insurance? they don't care about a "championship"? they play each other? their games don't count against their opponents?

 

I don't feel a separate organization is impossible. Just not as easy as one might think. I would rather see the board of control have D2 representation with at least one member. An organization has a mandate to represent all of its members fairly and equally. I feel sometimes that D2 gets left out of that equation.

 

As to the championship being on Tuesday, hopefully we will have the opportunity to play there and the whole family just may have to have Thanksgiving turkey in the parking lot!

[big red big blue]

I don't know how the East Coast schools do their scheduling. I'm running off my old memory banks from the BA legal saga when this point was discussed and a part of the legal argument. If I had to guess I would say...they supply their own insurance? they don't care about a "championship"? they play each other? their games don't count against their opponents?

 

I don't feel a separate organization is impossible. Just not as easy as one might think. I would rather see the board of control have D2 representation with at least one member. An organization has a mandate to represent all of its members fairly and equally. I feel sometimes that D2 gets left out of that equation.

 

As to the championship being on Tuesday, hopefully we will have the opportunity to play there and the whole family just may have to have Thanksgiving turkey in the parking lot!

 

 

Right now, splitting into our own division wouldn't be a good thing, IMO. In spite of this ruling, our relations with D1 teams seems to be at an all-time high. 5-6 years ago, we at MBA couldn't get a game scheduled with any Tennessee public school. Now we have almost completely filled our non-D2 schedule with local publics like Ravenwood, Independence, Hillsboro, Antioch, etc. It's a great arrangement for everyone, provided everyone focuses on the big picture and not short-term outcomes. If we split off into our own division, those games are gone. Scheduling will be a real nightmare. The MBA's, BA's, and McCallie's will be okay (though certainly worse off); but someone like Ryan, already behind the 8 ball financially, would be in bad shape if they couldn't get local, non-travel games.

 

What is bothersome is that over and over again, the actions of the TSSAA prompt us to contemplate this move. If they would just treat us decently, we would all probably accept the split make the best of it and move on. But as with this case, they seem bent on pushing and pushing us right up to the brink of leaving the TSSAA every time.