Knox Halls Starters

[DiverCity]

Let me rephrase one thing: "called off the dogs" might not the appropriate metaphor in this case. It would be more accurate to say that the coaches were getting a look at a lot of players who would not have otherwise seen action quite so early.

[showvol]

I would take Gibson to win in a foot race any day. The kid can outright run. Two summers ago, a local baseball team picked him up just to run bases for their pitchers and he didn't get thrown out much stealing.

[Baseballmad]

I am encouraged that the offense was scoring. Sounds like the running game is coming along. I don't put much emphasis on 4A-2A stuff who cares. I think the coaching staff has it all figured out and getting as many new faces in as possible. I'm glad they are rotating QB's. With Turner used as a safety playing both ways and his injury track record it's always a good idea to have a experienced backup. Also Dowdy looked pretty good throwing the ball last year.

[Govolsknox]

You might not buy it, but you're certainly smoking something good. It's wishful thinking at best and delusional at worst for you to think that these schools would have a realistic chance against the large (well, Alcoa might be small in numbers but it's big in athletes) schools you mentioned in an actual game. In the CAK/Halls context, the size difference alone would have resulted in a lopsided score by the end of an real game.

 

Also, believe me when I say that after the second defensive series many of the starters were watching from the sidelines. My personal knowledge of that could not be any more intimate than if I were one of the players themselves. Many of us wondered why we were scrimmaging CAK, particularly in what would appear to be a down year for them. The coaches appear to have realized that and called off the dogs early.

 

With that said, I don't think Halls was using 2's for coverage early. We did get beat bad on one pass down the sidelines, and that was 1's against 1's. Otherwise, it was a pretty good night for Halls given the personnel being utilized.

 

 

Uh, I'll say this: I am pulling for Halls to have a great year, starting with giving Maryville a run for their money. I also believe in being positive about your team. Whether they should or not, sometimes the kids read these boards and I sure wouldn't want for my team's kids to have a setback on confidence right before the season starts. But honestly if I were a Halls fan, with the exception of the running game, and the kicking / punting game, I would have trouble finding many positives from that scrimmage. (Other than that apparently the starters didn't play much so maybe not a lot of cause for concern.)

 

We did get beat bad on one pass down the sidelines, and that was 1's against 1's. Otherwise, it was a pretty good night for Halls given the personnel being utilized.

 

Whoever was on defense, 1st team, second team, or a mixture of both, CAK's starters had no trouble moving the ball. This is not to say that I think CAK could have scored on every possesion, but it was far more than one long bomb. They hit #9 out of the backfield, #20 out of the backfield for consistent gains, receivers 81. Hit 2 different players (21 and 7 I think) for 2 long balls. On the series that CAK started on their own 13, there were 2 plays blown dead as "sacks" due to pressure on the quarterback. Both of these were complete to a CAK receiver. Had they not been blown dead, the chains would have moved. The CAK quarterback would have been hit, and who knows maybe hurt, but CAK's first team was effected negatively by the early whistle (which I agree was appropriate for a scrimmage.) It is true that there were two interceptions that were called off due to the "sack" but these were not with #10 at quarterback. The Halls run defense looked good, but I think there were only about 3 running plays called, and the pass defense was so porous that unless that is fixed a team that can pass effectively will be a problem for Halls.

 

Many of us wondered why we were scrimmaging CAK, particularly in what would appear to be a down year for them.

 

I can't imagine anything you saw last night that would lead you to believe CAK is in for a "down year." I suspect the coaches, players, and fans would expect to dominate a 2A team (not named Alcoa...) in every facet of the game.

 

I couldn't even pretend to be a coach, but I suspect the reason your coach wanted to scrimmage CAK is that there are not many programs where you can give your kids exposure to going up against that type of offense in an environment where there is nothing to lose. Pretty smart IMO. While you may not play a bunch of spread type offenses, you will certainly play against teams that can both run and pass (such as Maryville.) I suspect your kids and coaching staff will benefit and learn from the game film. My guess is that is the same reason 3A Carter and DII St. Benedict scrimmaged CAK and Oak Ridge (5A) and Bearden (5A) scrimmaged CAK in 7 on 7 drills.

 

 

The coaches appear to have realized that and called off the dogs early.

 

Generally when someone "calls the dogs off" early, it is because they are totally dominating the other team and there is no need to further embarass them. I believe I can say with certainty that although the Halls coaching staff may have had many reasons to pull some of their starters early, it was not because they were so impressed with the total domination that they didn't want to embarass their opponent.

 

One quick side note regarding starters vs. 2nds, the corner #23 that intercepted and returned for a TD is a second team soph starting for the senior injured in the Carter scrimmage.

 

I believe CAK will have every chance to have a very strong year in 2A.

[4merhhsplayer]

about calling of the dogs, diver went back and corrected himself at the top of this page....

[Govolsknox]

about calling of the dogs, diver went back and corrected himself at the top of this page....

 

 

Fair point, and they may have been resting the starters early due to several scrimmages this week, trying to get a look at other players, or perhaps other reasons to pull the starters after two series.

[4merhhsplayer]

i think it must be the rest and see what the other guys can do

[Ironman80]

- I watched the tape of the scrimmage, and the moment CAK's backup QB stepped on the field, the score was 21-21. Any one who says differently is lying, and I don't know why.

 

- A scrimmage is a scrimmage, but why do all the CAK fans want to compare there #1's to our 1,2 and 3's. Then they jump off the ship on the first play they had a sub ? Is there a nerve, button, something they want to prove?

 

- I don't get on here saying "we beat CAK last night 49-21", but we did. I don't say"we had over 500 yards of offense to there under 200", but I could have. Those are accurate numbers. If you want to question our coaches for going to the bench early, can we not question why the ones and twos didn't continue for more than a total of 5 series (less than a half). Against Catholic, the ones and twos went 12 series. I wolud have liked to have seen something similar last night.

 

- I think most Halls fans, including myself, have tried to compliment CAK and the scrimmage. Nice place and both teams uncovered weaknesses(CAK cant stop any runs, Halls cant stop any passess). If we look at the whole, 49 - 21 would reflect the overall night.

 

- Again, when we brought our backup QB on the field the score was 7-7. Maybe that is the most accurate score.(Both teams had 70 yards of offense). When CAK 's backup QB stepped onto the field, the score was 21-21 (Halls had 267 yards/CAK had 135). Read into the numbers what you want to.

 

- If anyone from CAK wants to say the score was not 21-21 when your backup stepped on the field, tell me what play and when and I will check again. Otherwise, why not just say the truth!

[FootballDad]

- I watched the tape of the scrimmage, and the moment CAK's backup QB stepped on the field, the score was 21-21. Any one who says differently is lying, and I don't know why.

 

- A scrimmage is a scrimmage, but why do all the CAK fans want to compare there #1's to our 1,2 and 3's. Then they jump off the ship on the first play they had a sub ? Is there a nerve, button, something they want to prove?

 

- I don't get on here saying "we beat CAK last night 49-21", but we did. I don't say"we had over 500 yards of offense to there under 200", but I could have. Those are accurate numbers. If you want to question our coaches for going to the bench early, can we not question why the ones and twos didn't continue for more than a total of 5 series (less than a half). Against Catholic, the ones and twos went 12 series. I wolud have liked to have seen something similar last night.

 

- I think most Halls fans, including myself, have tried to compliment CAK and the scrimmage. Nice place and both teams uncovered weaknesses(CAK cant stop any runs, Halls cant stop any passess). If we look at the whole, 49 - 21 would reflect the overall night.

 

- Again, when we brought our backup QB on the field the score was 7-7. Maybe that is the most accurate score.(Both teams had 70 yards of offense). When CAK 's backup QB stepped onto the field, the score was 21-21 (Halls had 267 yards/CAK had 135). Read into the numbers what you want to.

 

- If anyone from CAK wants to say the score was not 21-21 when your backup stepped on the field, tell me what play and when and I will check again. Otherwise, why not just say the truth!

 

 

Ironman:

 

Watch your film again. Note that when the score is 21-7 and Halls gets the ball again and drives for the score that CAK's entire #2 defensive unit is on the field. Absolute fact. After Halls scores (21-14) CAK's #1 offense does come back on the field, is stopped, and punts. Halls takes the field again with their offense, once again against the CAK #2 defense. Halls scores and makes it 21-21 , but the last 2 Halls scores were undeniably against CAK's #2 defense. Look at every jersey number on the #1 defense and then compare that to jersey #'s when Halls scores their 2nd and 3rd touchdowns. In fact CAK's #1 defense never hit the field again. No disrespect but your looking through Red Devil tinted glasses if you will not own up to your "why not tell the truth" statement above. Let me know once you've watched the film again. By the way, it was a good scrimmage for both teams to learn from and it was nice to have a quality football team like Halls come to our school. But I take exception to you implying that CAK comments are untruthful. All CAK is trying to do is earn some respect for our young football program in Knox County, not trying to say we can play 4A football better than Halls or anyone else

[DiverCity]

I can't imagine anything you saw last night that would lead you to believe CAK is in for a "down year." I suspect the coaches, players, and fans would expect to dominate a 2A team (not named Alcoa...) in every facet of the game.

 

I couldn't even pretend to be a coach, but I suspect the reason your coach wanted to scrimmage CAK is that there are not many programs where you can give your kids exposure to going up against that type of offense in an environment where there is nothing to lose. Pretty smart IMO. While you may not play a bunch of spread type offenses, you will certainly play against teams that can both run and pass (such as Maryville.) I suspect your kids and coaching staff will benefit and learn from the game film. My guess is that is the same reason 3A Carter and DII St. Benedict scrimmaged CAK and Oak Ridge (5A) and Bearden (5A) scrimmaged CAK in 7 on 7 drills.

 

I did not mean to imply or express that CAK will not do well in 2A in their region or the playoffs (I just hope CAK doesn't have to play Alcoa early in the postseason). They are obviously a very good team and will, IMO (for whatever that's worth), do very well in that context. What I meant to express is that we thought before the game that this year's CAK team would be down from last year's very good team.

 

I agree with you too that it is smart for Halls to get tested by a spread passing attack. And we will indeed see that in Clinton and Powell. So yes, it was important in that regard.

[Govolsknox]

- I watched the tape of the scrimmage, and the moment CAK's backup QB stepped on the field, the score was 21-21. Any one who says differently is lying, and I don't know why.

 

- A scrimmage is a scrimmage, but why do all the CAK fans want to compare there #1's to our 1,2 and 3's. Then they jump off the ship on the first play they had a sub ? Is there a nerve, button, something they want to prove?

 

- I don't get on here saying "we beat CAK last night 49-21", but we did. I don't say"we had over 500 yards of offense to there under 200", but I could have. Those are accurate numbers. If you want to question our coaches for going to the bench early, can we not question why the ones and twos didn't continue for more than a total of 5 series (less than a half). Against Catholic, the ones and twos went 12 series. I wolud have liked to have seen something similar last night.

 

- I think most Halls fans, including myself, have tried to compliment CAK and the scrimmage. Nice place and both teams uncovered weaknesses(CAK cant stop any runs, Halls cant stop any passess). If we look at the whole, 49 - 21 would reflect the overall night.

 

- Again, when we brought our backup QB on the field the score was 7-7. Maybe that is the most accurate score.(Both teams had 70 yards of offense). When CAK 's backup QB stepped onto the field, the score was 21-21 (Halls had 267 yards/CAK had 135). Read into the numbers what you want to.

 

- If anyone from CAK wants to say the score was not 21-21 when your backup stepped on the field, tell me what play and when and I will check again. Otherwise, why not just say the truth!

 

 

You make some fair points that don't necessarily negate the points I made. I'll close with this:'

1. I don't represent or have a player for CAK.

2. I am absolutely confident that when CAK put their 2nd team DEFENSE (not just subbed a player or three, but a change to the seconds) the score was 21-7. In my earlier account of how events transpired, I never said it was 21-7 when CAK changed the offense. I believe that the 1st team offense went in for one more series after CAK had put in the second defense. I'm not guessing, I'm confident this is the case. However, I don't have game film to go back and check as I'm not affiliated with the program, so despite my best efforts at being 100% accurate from the CAK personnel side only (which is what I stated) I could be in error. I believe if you care to check though, you will find this paragraph accurate.

 

3. If you want to question our coaches for going to the bench early, can we not question why the ones and twos didn't continue for more than a total of 5 series (less than a half).

 

Sure you can, but I'm not sure it helps your case since according to you the 2nd string quarterback and 4th string receiver were in after one series. And your first team defense was done after 2 series.

 

4. I believe if you care to check the tape, you will see that Halls had 7 points when CAK went to the second team defense. Had the 1st team defense stayed in, maybe Halls would have score 60 points. Had Halls kept their 1st team defense intact instead of subbing substantially maybe CAK would have continued to move the ball like the first series. Maybe or maybe not, we'll never know. Halls did not score 21 points against CAK's first defense. Maybe they could have, but they didn't because they weren't in there.

I don't know what would have happened if both teams had kept the 1's in for an entire half. Both teams probably had good reasons for what they did. Both teams scored 1 TD ones vs. ones. Then apparently the 2nd quarterback threw the interception and the starters were out for Halls on defense (done after 2 series.) I have a 5A team I follow closely and I can honestly say that even if it were 21 - 21 starters vs. starters them against a 2A team, I personally would have expected them to perform better.

 

5. we had over 500 yards of offense to there under 200", but I could have.

 

6. It doesn't bother me a bit, but you most certainly did state these facts both last night and again today. The numbers are the numbers, no problem to me. As I stated in my earlier post, Halls clearly outmatched CAK in terms of depth. Once the 1st team was out on offense and defense, CAK didn't move the ball well and Halls did move the ball well.

 

7.Is there a nerve, button, something they want to prove?

 

I don't mind to be frank and respond to this. Speaking for myself only, I didn't particularly have any issues other than friendly discussion with your posts other than I felt your comments about when #10 and #7 lost their starting positions to support your argument that it was 21 - 21 were intentionally a little on the "smart aleky" side, but no big deal. Otherwise, I felt like in general you filled me in on how Halls subbed and I filled you in on the other side to the best of my (pretty good) memory. But you have the tape, so judge for yourself.

 

I will say that speaking for myself, I took much of what has been said by Halls supporters as damage control and positive spin. Not lies, not deception. Looking at the glass as half full not half empty. With Maryville coming up in a week and a half, that is probably smart. I think anyone neutral watching the first several series from that scrimmage may not have come away with the same take as most of the Halls supporters on this board. After the scrimmage on my way to the restroom I heard two older gentlemen in Halls shirts talking. One said he was "holding his nose" on how Halls played early in the scrimmage. I think in an effort to look at the glass as half full, some such as Divercity tend to minimize CAK's part of it. So I respond, as have a couple of others, and I stand by my comments to both you and Divercity 100%

 

Keep in mind that not every poster who made comments positive to CAK are CAK fans. For instance, Sheila is a Powell fan.

 

8. both teams uncovered weaknesses(CAK cant stop any runs, Halls cant stop any passess).

 

Well perhaps, but CAK won't likely see a 4A power running game this year (unless maybe Webb) of your caliber because they are playing 2A, but I suspect you will see some teams that throw the ball effectively. I think you may be underestimating the execution level of the offense you saw last night. But that's just my opinion based on watching mostly 5A ball over the last 20 years mixed in with a little 2A ball the last few.

 

Otherwise, thanks for the conversation, no hard feelings from my end, and good luck this season! Beat Maryville!

[JuniorsDad]

OK,,,,OK,,,,,It is time for me to step in. My son is a starter on the CAK defense. I watched him play in the scrimmage last night, I watched the film before going to bed and again when I got home from work today. Every play that he has on the field I have on tape, yes including the PAT. While he and the other starters on the D line played they gave up ONLY one touchdown ( on the opening drive ) I cannot say at what point the starting LB's and DB's were pulled, my guess would be at the same time the D Line came out. But AGAIN, I cannot say due to the film angle I have.

 

If we all cannot agree at what point our defensive starters came out, I can say with ZERO doubt that my son came out before a second touchdown was scored by Halls.