Chattanooga ASA Memorial tournament (14U TYNER PARK)

[TBALLEXPERT]

Something has got to change with the officiating at softball games! This problem has grown to EPIDEMIC proportions! I can remember the day when you had the occasional bad call & occasionally the guy behind the plate would miss a call on the strike zone but for some reason it seems that if you watch a game that is officiated well TODAY that it is a very rare occasion indeed. /blink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":blink:" border="0" alt="blink.gif" />

 

Has the size of the plate grown & no one is aware of this except the umpire??™s?? Just because the catcher is set up 8???-10??? off the plate & the pitcher puts the ball there STILL doesn??™t make it a strike!!!! Just because an official consistently get??™s it wrong for both teams doesn??™t make it RIGHT!

To be an umpire is more than just going to the park on the weekend for a little easy money. As with any job they must study and prepare for their job & at least know the rules of the game correctly. /thumb[1].gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":thumb:" border="0" alt="thumb[1].gif" />

 

 

I believe that Tournament directors have neglected the need to have a competent/trained officiating crew on staff. I understand that the summer travel scene has grown & that there are more tournaments being held in many different cities so I guess there is more competition for the available umpires. As a tournament director you must be doing every thing you can to ensure that the officials at your tournament are properly trained & MONITORED while working for you. If you have officials that have limited game experience The tournament UIC MUST do a better job of monitoring these officials and give them feed back on their performance while working so the new official can learn from their mistakes quickly!! I believe that if the new & experienced officials were aware that their job performance was being evaluated at any given time(as with any other job)that they would work harder to GET IT RIGHT! /thumb[1].gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":thumb:" border="0" alt="thumb[1].gif" />

 

I??™m sorry that I even feel the need to post this topic but this problem seems to be getting worse rather than better. ( not that I really expect anything to change)

 

These young ladies work/train hard, some year round to excel at this game & deserve more than just some guy/gal who just passed some $35.00 test and bought a set of umpire clothes.

 

When a team is playing ASA Softball they expect to be playing the best competition as well as the best officiating of games & the officiating is the equivalent of Rec league thus far in this season. /flower.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":flower:" border="0" alt="flower.gif" />

 

 

 

 

/ph34r.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":ph34r:" border="0" alt="ph34r.gif" />

[ASAdefender]

Oh so many responses, so little time. First in response to 5 Sport Dad's question about what part of the state I reside in? I reside in the Chattanooga area which is in East Tennesee. East Tennessee is part of the state that is loyal to ASA and is responsible for 3/4th of the ASA registrations in TN and thus responsible for providing the 4 berths to Tennessee teams. I don't understand your statement that maybe I should work harder. East Tennessee is already shouldering the burden for all of TN ASA.

As for the "Expert" comments about umpires at the ASA Memorial. There are good and bad umpires in every softball organization. The umpires at the Drake's Creek Classic were the worst I have ever seen outside of USFA umpires in North Georgia. There were some good umpires at the Memorial and there were some bad. We had an umpire in our first game this weekend with a strike zone so large, the Goodyear Blimp could have passed through. At Hendersonville, we had an umpire with a Napoleonic complex who called a low strike that might have been a strike on him but since most of the girls were six inches taller, the ball was at their ankles.

The bottom line is most umpires we see in weekend tournaments in any part of the state are not professionals. They are there to make extra cash. They do not love the game or care about the kids, it is merely a means to an end. Much like some tournament directors who don't have real jobs and are trying to make a living off the backs of the girls, softball becomes just a way to earn money.

This Spring, Chattanooga has been experimenting with using 6 innings and no time limit in weekend tournaments. The coaches love it but the umpires hate it because they want the time to run out so they can get their money and get out of there. The umpires and many tournament directors don't care that softball was designed to be a game of innings and it is not a timed sport like basketball or football and time limits harm the integrity of the game.

 

Ok, I'm out,

Kim Swafford

TN ASA Dist. 10 J.O. Commissioner

Signal Mountain, TN

[Mr knowitall]

Oh so many responses, so little time. First in response to 5 Sport Dad's question about what part of the state I reside in? I reside in the Chattanooga area which is in East Tennesee. East Tennessee is part of the state that is loyal to ASA and is responsible for 3/4th of the ASA registrations in TN and thus responsible for providing the 4 berths to Tennessee teams. I don't understand your statement that maybe I should work harder. East Tennessee is already shouldering the burden for all of TN ASA.

As for the "Expert" comments about umpires at the ASA Memorial. There are good and bad umpires in every softball organization. The umpires at the Drake's Creek Classic were the worst I have ever seen outside of USFA umpires in North Georgia. There were some good umpires at the Memorial and there were some bad. We had an umpire in our first game this weekend with a strike zone so large, the Goodyear Blimp could have passed through. At Hendersonville, we had an umpire with a Napoleonic complex who called a low strike that might have been a strike on him but since most of the girls were six inches taller, the ball was at their ankles.

The bottom line is most umpires we see in weekend tournaments in any part of the state are not professionals. They are there to make extra cash. They do not love the game or care about the kids, it is merely a means to an end. Much like some tournament directors who don't have real jobs and are trying to make a living off the backs of the girls, softball becomes just a way to earn money.

This Spring, Chattanooga has been experimenting with using 6 innings and no time limit in weekend tournaments. The coaches love it but the umpires hate it because they want the time to run out so they can get their money and get out of there. The umpires and many tournament directors don't care that softball was designed to be a game of innings and it is not a timed sport like basketball or football and time limits harm the integrity of the game.

 

Ok, I'm out,

Kim Swafford

TN ASA Dist. 10 J.O. Commissioner

Signal Mountain, TN

 

 

 

Which Chattanooga team do you coach?

[TBALLEXPERT]

[quote name='ASAdefender' date='Jun 1 2009 - 03:25 PM' post='827108794

As for the "Expert" comments about umpires at the ASA Memorial. There are good and bad umpires in every softball organization. The umpires at the Drake's Creek Classic were the worst I have ever seen outside of USFA umpires in North Georgia. There were some good umpires at the Memorial and there were some bad. We had an umpire in our first game this weekend with a strike zone so large, the Goodyear Blimp could have passed through. At Hendersonville, we had an umpire with a Napoleonic complex who called a low strike that might have been a strike on him but since most of the girls were six inches taller, the ball was at their ankles.

The bottom line is most umpires we see in weekend tournaments in any part of the state are not professionals. They are there to make extra cash. They do not love the game or care about the kids, it is merely a means to an end. Much like some tournament directors who don't have real jobs and are trying to make a living off the backs of the girls, softball becomes just a way to earn money.

This Spring, Chattanooga has been experimenting with using 6 innings and no time limit in weekend tournaments. The coaches love it but the umpires hate it because they want the time to run out so they can get their money and get out of there. The umpires and many tournament directors don't care that softball was designed to be a game of innings and it is not a timed sport like basketball or football and time limits harm the integrity of the game.

 

Ok, I'm out,

Kim Swafford

TN ASA Dist. 10 J.O. Commissioner

Signal Mountain, TN

 

 

Kim, please don't think for one minute that anyone think's that we have "professional" umpire's at weekend travel tournament's!?!?!?

 

We all know that these kind folks do this on the weekend for a second job, maybe some because they enjoy it. But I think you missed the point of what I wrote!!!!!

 

#1 It was OBVIOUS at TYNER this weekend that you had several new officials that were scared to death to make a close call or new the rules on any unusual play/result.

 

 

#2 This is ASA, supposed to be the best in softball, give the girls somthing better than that. If you are going to have a large amount of "newbie" umpires that are not fully versed on the rules of the game officiating a National Qualifier. Make sure your UIC is spending more time monitoring the play/calls on the fields that they are working on. Which may have been hard to do last weekend because I watched games on the three fields being played on at TYNER and you had "NEWBIES" on every field.

 

 

 

As for Drakes Creek last week, your right there was a couple of poor officials there just like any other weekend tournament, but if that was the worst you had ever experienced up to that point then CONGRATULATIONS!!! TYNER out did them and broke their week long record!

 

I was not trying to make you all mad and defensive with the original post. I thought it was a serious matter that ASA TN might need to pay some attention to but then again maybe I'm wrong and like you said it is just about the money for the umpire's and some tournament directors.

[CFS]

[quote name='ASAdefender' date='Jun 1 2009 - 03:25 PM' post='827108794

As for the "Expert" comments about umpires at the ASA Memorial. There are good and bad umpires in every softball organization. The umpires at the Drake's Creek Classic were the worst I have ever seen outside of USFA umpires in North Georgia. There were some good umpires at the Memorial and there were some bad. We had an umpire in our first game this weekend with a strike zone so large, the Goodyear Blimp could have passed through. At Hendersonville, we had an umpire with a Napoleonic complex who called a low strike that might have been a strike on him but since most of the girls were six inches taller, the ball was at their ankles.

The bottom line is most umpires we see in weekend tournaments in any part of the state are not professionals. They are there to make extra cash. They do not love the game or care about the kids, it is merely a means to an end. Much like some tournament directors who don't have real jobs and are trying to make a living off the backs of the girls, softball becomes just a way to earn money.

This Spring, Chattanooga has been experimenting with using 6 innings and no time limit in weekend tournaments. The coaches love it but the umpires hate it because they want the time to run out so they can get their money and get out of there. The umpires and many tournament directors don't care that softball was designed to be a game of innings and it is not a timed sport like basketball or football and time limits harm the integrity of the game.

 

Ok, I'm out,

Kim Swafford

TN ASA Dist. 10 J.O. Commissioner

Signal Mountain, TN

 

 

 

Kim, please don't think for one minute that anyone think's that we have "professional" umpire's at weekend travel tournament's!?!?!?

 

We all know that these kind folks do this on the weekend for a second job, maybe some because they enjoy it. But I think you missed the point of what I wrote!!!!!

 

#1 It was OBVIOUS at TYNER this weekend that you had several new officials that were scared to death to make a close call or new the rules on any unusual play/result.

 

 

#2 This is ASA, supposed to be the best in softball, give the girls somthing better than that. If you are going to have a large amount of "newbie" umpires that are not fully versed on the rules of the game officiating a National Qualifier. Make sure your UIC is spending more time monitoring the play/calls on the fields that they are working on. Which may have been hard to do last weekend because I watched games on the three fields being played on at TYNER and you had "NEWBIES" on every field.

 

 

 

As for Drakes Creek last week, your right there was a couple of poor officials there just like any other weekend tournament, but if that was the worst you had ever experienced up to that point then CONGRATULATIONS!!! TYNER out did them and broke their week long record!

 

I was not trying to make you all mad and defensive with the original post. I thought it was a serious matter that ASA TN might need to pay some attention to but then again maybe I'm wrong and like you said it is just about the money for the umpire's and some tournament directors.

 

Well, I have to say the umpires at Warner Park in the older divisions did a very good job. Not perfect but definately better than anything we saw at Drakes Creek although some at drakes Creek were ok as well. I believe the quality has improved at ASA in Chattanooga, but yes when it comes to the younger ages, the dregs are there because there are not many umpires of high quality in every region. The solution is and I am sure it costs ASA money is for a National qualifier bring in the best from each area. This way you will have consistency in all age groups. The young kids deserve to have better as well. They pay the same money and the quality of the game is very good. Heck there are teams from all parts of the state, bring in umps from all parts of the state. Now, the question is how do the newbies learn to become better umpires. Do this in non qualifying events and/ or use 3 man crews with the newbies working with two high quality umpires at a reduced price till they quote graduate from newbie status. We need young umpires in the game that want to learn. What we need to do is get rid of those horrible umpires that are older, dont care, past their prime and too out of shape to get in position to make the call. ASA is the best organization out there so practice what you preach and give these high quality teams what they pay for and that is a high quality event, umpires and facilities included. So ASA pay the out of town umps and pay for their hotel stay in a qualifier.

 

At $300 for a tournament this should be the norm and also at $300 have the consistency of using the same ball every game. At $300 and being a qualifier there is no reason for ASA to not supply game balls and a 1 hr 30 time limit. It is crazy for a pitcher to have to use a K Master piece of junk ball with no seams and another brand as well. This makes everyone use the same ball in the same game and throughout the tournament.

 

Now I will get off my soap box.

[ASAdefender]

Well, I have to say the umpires at Warner Park in the older divisions did a very good job. Not perfect but definately better than anything we saw at Drakes Creek although some at drakes Creek were ok as well. I believe the quality has improved at ASA in Chattanooga, but yes when it comes to the younger ages, the dregs are there because there are not many umpires of high quality in every region. The solution is and I am sure it costs ASA money is for a National qualifier bring in the best from each area. This way you will have consistency in all age groups. The young kids deserve to have better as well. They pay the same money and the quality of the game is very good. Heck there are teams from all parts of the state, bring in umps from all parts of the state. Now, the question is how do the newbies learn to become better umpires. Do this in non qualifying events and/ or use 3 man crews with the newbies working with two high quality umpires at a reduced price till they quote graduate from newbie status. We need young umpires in the game that want to learn. What we need to do is get rid of those horrible umpires that are older, dont care, past their prime and too out of shape to get in position to make the call. ASA is the best organization out there so practice what you preach and give these high quality teams what they pay for and that is a high quality event, umpires and facilities included. So ASA pay the out of town umps and pay for their hotel stay in a qualifier.

 

At $300 for a tournament this should be the norm and also at $300 have the consistency of using the same ball every game. At $300 and being a qualifier there is no reason for ASA to not supply game balls and a 1 hr 30 time limit. It is crazy for a pitcher to have to use a K Master piece of junk ball with no seams and another brand as well. This makes everyone use the same ball in the same game and throughout the tournament.

 

Now I will get off my soap box.

 

 

 

Well, I have to say the umpires at Warner Park in the older divisions did a very good job. Not perfect but definately better than anything we saw at Drakes Creek although some at drakes Creek were ok as well. I believe the quality has improved at ASA in Chattanooga, but yes when it comes to the younger ages, the dregs are there because there are not many umpires of high quality in every region. The solution is and I am sure it costs ASA money is for a National qualifier bring in the best from each area. This way you will have consistency in all age groups. The young kids deserve to have better as well. They pay the same money and the quality of the game is very good. Heck there are teams from all parts of the state, bring in umps from all parts of the state. Now, the question is how do the newbies learn to become better umpires. Do this in non qualifying events and/ or use 3 man crews with the newbies working with two high quality umpires at a reduced price till they quote graduate from newbie status. We need young umpires in the game that want to learn. What we need to do is get rid of those horrible umpires that are older, dont care, past their prime and too out of shape to get in position to make the call. ASA is the best organization out there so practice what you preach and give these high quality teams what they pay for and that is a high quality event, umpires and facilities included. So ASA pay the out of town umps and pay for their hotel stay in a qualifier.

 

At $300 for a tournament this should be the norm and also at $300 have the consistency of using the same ball every game. At $300 and being a qualifier there is no reason for ASA to not supply game balls and a 1 hr 30 time limit. It is crazy for a pitcher to have to use a K Master piece of junk ball with no seams and another brand as well. This makes everyone use the same ball in the same game and throughout the tournament.

 

Now I will get off my soap box.

[ASAdefender]

Which Chattanooga team do you coach?

 

Tennessee Fury '94

[ASAdefender]

Well said KC, I agree on all fronts. As you know, I called downtown on Friday questioning that fact that softballs were not being provided in a Qualifier. Softballs will be provided on June 26th-28th at the Summit and K Masters will not be used.

"Expert" - I did not have time yesterday to detail all the horrors of Drake's Creek umpires, scheduling, etc. First of all, a qualifier should not have been scheduled when the TSSAA state tournament was still being played. Many of the teams (including mine, the Cruisers, Xplosion etc.) did not have all their players present until late Sat. afternoon. Two of mine went straight home from the state tournament to study for exams and never came to Drake's Creek. As I have said before, giving the berth at this time was a decision by the Hendersonville folks even though myself and several others vigorously protested the timing. It gave a significant advantage to teams with no players participating in the high school state tournament.

The game schedule should have been done on two hour increments. While I like 90 minute games, 90 minute games cannot be scheduled on 90 minute increments. Our field on Saturday at Veteran's Park was two hours behind by 3:00pm. Also, we had a 3:00pm game at Veteran's Park and a 4:30pm game at Drake's Creek. We had to pack up and drive to Drake's Creek for a back to back game. This should not happen in any tournament, much less a qualifier.

All the fields at Drake's Creek were not being utilized, apparently there were youth baseball games being played on fields that could have been used for the tournament. If you are going to have an ASA Qualifier, the park should be fully dedicated to that event.

On Sunday, while waiting at the park, I noticed some players on the opposing team had on steel cleats. I walked over to the coach and told him steel cleats were not allowed in ASA. He informed me that he had been told by an umpire that steel cleats were legal in ASA. I explained to him that I was present in Oklahoma City last November at the meeting when steel cleats were vigorously debated and the proposal was voted down. Umpires in a qualifier should know this rule as it is a safety concern and a liability issue for ASA and the host park.

There were also some positives at Drake's Creek. It was great to see the number of Nashville teams that participated in the Qualifier. Since part of the stated goal of Tennessee ASA having a qualifier in Nashville was to get more MT teams registered with ASA, from that standpoint, it was successful. Also, Neil Kemp and the Drake's Creek staff did a great job in being patient and letting the tournament play out despite the weather on Sunday. It is never a good feeling to lose a berth by a coin toss.

Hope the Nashville teams will continue to support ASA and participate in the remaining ASA qualifers.

Thanks all,

Kim Swafford

TN ASA Dist. 10

[intheshadow]

Kim,

 

I have been reading about you defending the ASA for a while now. I also heard you speak highly of the Chattanooga area, how most of the registered teams are from around there, and that they are the reason why TN is getting more bids to the Nationals. You complain about the alphabet soup in the rest of the state, but when middle TN wanted to hold an ASA qualfier, you said it was awarded because they whined enough. Apparently when ASA sponsor a tournament, it is poorly ran, judging from yours and others comments. Do you still wonder why ASA is not popular in the rest of the state? It sound to me like you do a great job promoting your association to your home area, but it is a hassle to expand it to the rest of the state. Here in west TN ASA is almost nonexisting and we may not be part of your region, I don't know because nobody is doing much promoting around here. JTK does what he can, but the ASA tournament he hosts is for a single age group. Even after my rant, I think the rest of the state would love to support the ASA, but only if the ASA will support the rest of the state.

[CFS]

Well said KC, I agree on all fronts. As you know, I called downtown on Friday questioning that fact that softballs were not being provided in a Qualifier. Softballs will be provided on June 26th-28th at the Summit and K Masters will not be used.

"Expert" - I did not have time yesterday to detail all the horrors of Drake's Creek umpires, scheduling, etc. First of all, a qualifier should not have been scheduled when the TSSAA state tournament was still being played. Many of the teams (including mine, the Cruisers, Xplosion etc.) did not have all their players present until late Sat. afternoon. Two of mine went straight home from the state tournament to study for exams and never came to Drake's Creek. As I have said before, giving the berth at this time was a decision by the Hendersonville folks even though myself and several others vigorously protested the timing. It gave a significant advantage to teams with no players participating in the high school state tournament.

The game schedule should have been done on two hour increments. While I like 90 minute games, 90 minute games cannot be scheduled on 90 minute increments. Our field on Saturday at Veteran's Park was two hours behind by 3:00pm. Also, we had a 3:00pm game at Veteran's Park and a 4:30pm game at Drake's Creek. We had to pack up and drive to Drake's Creek for a back to back game. This should not happen in any tournament, much less a qualifier.

All the fields at Drake's Creek were not being utilized, apparently there were youth baseball games being played on fields that could have been used for the tournament. If you are going to have an ASA Qualifier, the park should be fully dedicated to that event.

On Sunday, while waiting at the park, I noticed some players on the opposing team had on steel cleats. I walked over to the coach and told him steel cleats were not allowed in ASA. He informed me that he had been told by an umpire that steel cleats were legal in ASA. I explained to him that I was present in Oklahoma City last November at the meeting when steel cleats were vigorously debated and the proposal was voted down. Umpires in a qualifier should know this rule as it is a safety concern and a liability issue for ASA and the host park.

There were also some positives at Drake's Creek. It was great to see the number of Nashville teams that participated in the Qualifier. Since part of the stated goal of Tennessee ASA having a qualifier in Nashville was to get more MT teams registered with ASA, from that standpoint, it was successful. Also, Neil Kemp and the Drake's Creek staff did a great job in being patient and letting the tournament play out despite the weather on Sunday. It is never a good feeling to lose a berth by a coin toss.

Hope the Nashville teams will continue to support ASA and participate in the remaining ASA qualifers.

Thanks all,

Kim Swafford

TN ASA Dist. 10

 

 

While I agree about the timing of the tournament, it should never be on same weekend as HS State, however years ago when the Spring Fling was in Memphis, I remember the Memorial being at the same time because of finishing Spring Fling late night and driving all night to catch a Saturday game in Chattanooga. I remember the Eagles talking about that back then.

 

This year, Some teams got late enough game time starts Saturday in Hendersonville that it did not affect their roster for their games which I thought was going to be the case for all teams but I believe that late game happened for two teams. Cruisers probably got hit hardest because of starting at 9AM with all pickup players they had to put on their roster. They did a great job coming out of loser bracket.

[5-Sport Dad]

Kim,

 

I have been reading about you defending the ASA for a while now. I also heard you speak highly of the Chattanooga area, how most of the registered teams are from around there, and that they are the reason why TN is getting more bids to the Nationals. You complain about the alphabet soup in the rest of the state, but when middle TN wanted to hold an ASA qualfier, you said it was awarded because they whined enough. Apparently when ASA sponsors a tournament, it is poorly ran, judging from yours and others comments. Do you still wonder why ASA is not popular in the rest of the state? It sound to me like you do a great job promoting your association to your home area, but it is a hassle to expand it to the rest of the state. Here in west TN ASA is almost nonexisting and we may not be part of your region, I don't know because nobody is doing much promoting around here. JTK does what he can, but the ASA tournament he hosts is for a single age group. Even after my rant, I think the rest of the state would love to support the ASA, but only if the ASA will support the rest of the state.

 

Funny, but when I'm watching two good teams play, I don't really care who the sanctioning body is - NCAA, USFA, ASA, NSA, USSSA, whoever... And, to me, it's sad that college coaches put the ASA on such a pedestal. On the field, when it counts, the initials on the front of the umpires' hats doesn't make a dimes worth of difference to the players or the fans.

 

intheshadow, very well said. Common sense...seems to be so uncommon.

[MrPotshaws]

Well here is something else that ticked me off this past weekend .Why was Chattangooa Force allowed in the tournament after winning the Hendersonville quilifier .

And about the umpires i went up with my batting order and was showing him my flex and dp and he had NO clue what i was talking about, GET REAL that is absolutey redicolous .WHO is over these umpires MICKEY MOUSE? /blink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":blink:" border="0" alt="blink.gif" />