Does Impact control Williamson County Volleyball

[pagefan]

Williamson County is the wealthiest county in the state of Tennessee. It has 7 high schools including Brentwood; Centennial; Fairview; Franklin; Independence; Page and Ravenwood.

 

It also has a unique local rule that allows for Open Enrollement based on athletics. What that means is that it does not matter where you live, you can attend and play sports for any of the schools. It is the only county in the state that allows for this to occur.

 

Brentwood and Page were the first 2 schools to figure out how this could help their volleyball programs. But now all of the schools have learned how to best use the system.

 

Impact is the state's biggest volleyball club, which generates hundreds of thousands of dollars each year.

 

Impact works with the high schools, and essentially runs the top programs. Impact places its coaches in the high schools, who then "coach" the teams. This gives these programs a HUGE advantage over other schools.

 

Impact reaps a HUGE financial advantage.

 

What this means is that the high school team essentially gets year round play.

 

I would offer that this is not healthy for the high school sport, or for volleyball in general. This topic is never allowed to be discussed but look at where the Impact coaches, and the people that make the most money, go. Brentwood; Page, Ravenwood and Franklin.

 

As a parent, there is a tremendous amount of pressure to play for club, or go "off the island" as it relates to playing for you high school.

 

It upsets me that this "suggestion" gets slammed as sour grapes whenever it is raised. Everyone can't afford to play club.

 

I loved my daughters time at Page, and most of the parents, but the pressure is there. As we get ready to do it again I think it needs to be more out in the open.

 

Has anyone ever looked into the Impact situation, and how the rules allow for such close interaction?

[play4keeps]

Which Impact coaches, exactly, are placed in the high schools?

 

As far as I can tell, Troy Helton coached just this past season at Impact...first year for him. (and he seems to be your primary target these days) So who else? I can probably name most (if not all) the coaches of Impact's National and travel level teams...not many HS coaches among them.

 

Which teams are made up from High Schools? Every one of my daughter's teams (since 2000) from 13U through 18U have represented at LEAST 5 different high schools. Sometimes there are 2 or 3 players from a single school but don't recall more than that...ever.

 

I don't live in Williamson County and don't have a dog in this fight but seems like Williamson Select and Nashville One have many players in their clubs that go to these high schools also. In fact, the director of one of the clubs IS a Williamson Co HS coach.

 

Why, oh why, do you feel the need to stir the pot? The fact that club is expensive is old news. The fact that some girls can't afford to play is old news. The fact that if you don't play club it's really hard to make a Williamson Co HS team is OLD NEWS. It's also one of the reason that 11AAA is the strongest district in the state with the most AAA Championships.

 

My family has been around HS and club volleyball since 1999...not a lot as changed...new clubs, more players....still the same old controversy.

 

Do you really feel discussion is "not allowed"? Where? At your school? On this forum? I think open debate is a great idea, just don't get personal and DO NOT bring in players by name.

[PHargis]

Williamson County is the wealthiest county in the state of Tennessee. It has 7 high schools including Brentwood; Centennial; Fairview; Franklin; Independence; Page and Ravenwood.

 

It also has a unique local rule that allows for Open Enrollement based on athletics. What that means is that it does not matter where you live, you can attend and play sports for any of the schools. It is the only county in the state that allows for this to occur.

 

Brentwood and Page were the first 2 schools to figure out how this could help their volleyball programs. But now all of the schools have learned how to best use the system.

 

Impact is the state's biggest volleyball club, which generates hundreds of thousands of dollars each year.

 

Impact works with the high schools, and essentially runs the top programs. Impact places its coaches in the high schools, who then "coach" the teams. This gives these programs a HUGE advantage over other schools.

 

Impact reaps a HUGE financial advantage.

 

What this means is that the high school team essentially gets year round play.

 

I would offer that this is not healthy for the high school sport, or for volleyball in general. This topic is never allowed to be discussed but look at where the Impact coaches, and the people that make the most money, go. Brentwood; Page, Ravenwood and Franklin.

 

As a parent, there is a tremendous amount of pressure to play for club, or go "off the island" as it relates to playing for you high school.

 

It upsets me that this "suggestion" gets slammed as sour grapes whenever it is raised. Everyone can't afford to play club.

 

I loved my daughters time at Page, and most of the parents, but the pressure is there. As we get ready to do it again I think it needs to be more out in the open.

 

Has anyone ever looked into the Impact situation, and how the rules allow for such close interaction?

While this poster has no connection , at all, with Impact, much of your post is flawed and before attacking Schools, coaches and facts concerning Wiliamson. You need to take time and relook at the total picture. Frustration is heard and is understood and it looks as if numerous people are trying to help a player and her family to finish her senior year and play in College with some odd things happening. How all of this got involved with a coaches clinic and players training and a Coaches back surgery, it can only happen in Williamson and a start of preseason. This is not ugly yet but unless it is taken under control by the principal, it could. She is the person who controls the events, no one else. I'm sure she listens to parents but she,IMO without a doubt, will go by the rules. Principals at the school have always understood the Tradition of the school in volleyball and the uneasiness of coaching changes there. Their, unfortunately, have been many. The large group of supporters that have been with the school the last 10-15 years and the principal will work this out.

[pagefan]

The root of this situation is money, nothing else.

 

A-Game Sportsplex and the USBA Ultimate Sports Academy are for profit companies that make their money off of the families of high school and middle school athletes. Jay Golsteyn (father of Impact VB and former Franklin High School Coach) is the head VB person at A-Game. He makes money off of people using the facility and or taking his classes. Nothing wrong with that, it is a fair business, and he does a good job.

 

His right hand guy at Impact for many years was the Brentwood coach Jeff Frazier (technically an asst., but was gererally understood to be the VB guy behind the program) and a main person in utilizing the benefits of the Williamson County "open transfer" rule to build Brentwood High School into a volleyball dynasty.

 

Jess Endale is the Father Ryan asst coach, and the number 2 behind Golsteyn at A-Game.

 

Tracye Berry, longtime Page coach now at Ravenwood is the head of realitively new Williamson County Select which is the biggest customer of Unapproved Website Academy. Another USBA folk is Kim Miller who is now at Franklin and Shawn Robinson at BGA.

 

The problem is how this affects the high school experience.

 

Club is great, and definately helps the player. But, just like in AAU basketball lines can be crossed.

 

These multimillion dollar athletic facilities can only exist with Club and AAU participation. This is totally okay, and great to have these facilities.

 

Just like with everything else, the envelope gets pushed. The "open transfer" rule which is essentially unique to Williamson County lets the athletes pick where they want to play. The volunteer coach rule lets the high schools hire non-school people to coach.

 

The Clubs, ie Williamson and Impact can pay these coaches to increase club participation and to use their facilities. While everything starts out as noble, when big money gets involved, the sports suffers.

 

Facility needs players to make profit.

 

Clubs provide players.

 

Club Coaches invade high school ranks to get players.

 

Club/High School coaches basically require club participation to play high school ball.

 

High Schools like winning state championships and look the other way.

 

High School athlete plays club and thus funds Facility.

 

I am not trying to 'Start" anything but this is happening. Could Brentwood; Franklin: Page; Father Ryan etc really be as competitive without these favorable transfer rules and without the year round play and instruction that club provides?

 

I think we need to look at what is occuring. Volleyball is not football. Principals and school systems don't scrutinize it as closely.

 

The clubs, through the parents, are picking the high school coaches, who then provide the money pipeline to these facilities.

 

Coach Helton seems to be a great guy. But it is hypocritical to say this isn't going on. There is no "secret" to the success of Williamson County Volleyball. The "secret" is sadly what it always is when money and business gets involved in youth sports.

[play4keeps]

Well written.

 

I can pretty much agree with everything you've written. I guess my issue was with the title of the thread "Does Impact control Williamson Co volleyball"...seems to be better stated, based on your post "Does Club Volleyball control Williamson Co volleyball" and the answer would be a resounding YES.

 

One more reason I'm glad to be in Wilson County /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" /> Not that we don't have OUR problems...just check out the Girls Basketball forum

[pagefan]

You are right. When we went through the first time it was just Impact.

 

I suppose what is the hardest is that nothing is being done to address the problem. On this forum the biggest offenders usually get bragged about the most.

 

I have an in law that lived through the same thing with basketball in Jackson/Shelbyville.

 

This is high school. Everybody should have the same chance. The TSSAA just makes it easier. The Open Enrollment rule needs to change. I also think that if you are going to coach club, and work for these companies that run these for profit facilities, you should not be allowed to run a high school program.

[PHargis]

Interesting senario. Don't know either way. You have dealt with, however, two different companies as far as facilities are concerned. Agame Sportsplex in a large arena which houses hocky events, some Volleyball events and some youth Basketball. There is retail and is owned by a group of investors who own the facilities. It is a pay for play type of business. Different people buy in a sell out of the business. While not for sure rumors have it that some or those mentioned could have sold out of the business in the last couple of years. I am not familiar with the operation and am not an owner. My contact is purely personal, Being a business, it is for profit and likely to pay expenses and the debt. Volleyball events occured many times this past spring. Clubs came in from all overthe southeast. There is no fee for watching. There is a entrance fee to play.

USBA caters to younger age groups mostly while Impact handles both younger and older students. I think it would be fair to say, one way or the other Coaches do get paid for their services. The higher up the latter, those being paid get more in both facilities.

Volleyball, despite current thought, is a technical sport and what is obvious is those who are good at teaching have good won loss records and those who are not get the opposite results. Players are taught better. Now how does this work as far as pay is concerned. Yes its true, the pay structure for VB coaches is not high but its for three months and to say that there is not another trail of income during the year even if the coach is teaching, might be expected. You are also correct, if one sees high expense services being provided to large quantities of people, even with writeoffs, somebody in the chain is making money. They may deserve it. And then with good coaches on staff, it may not be worth the money.

If I can understand your thoughts, having people come in and fight over a VB coaching job that might only be non faculty and pays what non faculty normally pays without the income stream the rest of the year is unusual. uPaying a coach from a booster club to hire other non faculty coaches could certainly be suspect unless the booster club knows the reason. In some cases having a club associated too much with a school unless its a way to refund some club fees tward Booster expenses during the year, might be suspect if some of those funds unknowingly are being paid tward salaries of a coach. Nothing wrong with that being done except someone needs to know it. The only way i would think to catch this and get value by a parent is to watch the cost of club especially if there are a lot of players playing from a school. Understand entrance fees and ask questions as to why the cost is what it is and determine if your schools booster club should be getting a proportional share of fees paid in to the club. If your daughter is not getting return of investment ,find someway in a contract, a time line, to cut off payment for services. IMO, if a school's parents are paying large Club fees and a booster Club or a school can pay a Coach enough to provide services for a staff person instead of club fees, its just good business and saves the parents money. If club fees can be fees and travel $3500 a year and someone can be hired to provide same services for a group at less cost. It's just business.

Now some of these things are extreme matters and its hoped nothing is going on and its true, with the conditions you have outlined, it does provide chances for abuse and no one even thinks anything is wrong. The real thing that seems to be bothersome are clubs playing out of State so much and with club fees being high and the parent paying the travel bill and the Tournament fee bill and the opportunity for the fees, especially if Clubs are told where the players and parents are to stay, where to eat and other things and the clubs get a rebate on very high travel expenses. Something to look at.

So should schools be careful with all of these thngs that require fees even in the summer, no matter who the school is. I would say yes and the more fees a greater accounting check maybe by a Booster Club or accountant might be in order. And even in the school year.

We are in a time,right now, that athletic expenses used to be taken care of by concessions, some fees by parents and some special events by schools.Booster club expenses need to be gone over. Now it appears, the chances are out there for rules to be looked at by the TSSAA as to who can coach what age group in the summer in club and AAU. I'm sure there are rules by schools to keep abuses from happening and any organization proved in doing that should be banned from dealing with the schools in any way. Just osmething else someone need sto check on. its uunending.

As far as clubs being too associated with a school system. If its happening, the booster club and school are allowing it to happen. If someone is unduly influencing a school program or a booster club, beware.

And right now, anyone who thinks they control anything with high school sports in this State,had better look in another direction. Parents and schools are being very careful.

[bb317]

The root of this situation is money, nothing else.

 

A-Game Sportsplex and the USBA Ultimate Sports Academy are for profit companies that make their money off of the families of high school and middle school athletes. Jay Golsteyn (father of Impact VB and former Franklin High School Coach) is the head VB person at A-Game. He makes money off of people using the facility and or taking his classes. Nothing wrong with that, it is a fair business, and he does a good job.

 

His right hand guy at Impact for many years was the Brentwood coach Jeff Frazier (technically an asst., but was gererally understood to be the VB guy behind the program) and a main person in utilizing the benefits of the Williamson County "open transfer" rule to build Brentwood High School into a volleyball dynasty.

 

Jess Endale is the Father Ryan asst coach, and the number 2 behind Golsteyn at A-Game.

 

Tracye Berry, longtime Page coach now at Ravenwood is the head of realitively new Williamson County Select which is the biggest customer of Unapproved Website Academy. Another USBA folk is Kim Miller who is now at Franklin and Shawn Robinson at BGA.

 

 

Have to weigh in on a few issues.

 

First and foremost Father Ryan is NOT in Williamson County, gets totally unfavorable treatment on transfers( Stay tuned for one of these moments) and Jess Enderle coaches the freshmen at Ryan, none of whom played at Impact this year.

Club Volleyball, be it at Impact, Select, Nashville One or RC Juniors exists to help high schools what so ever,

The problem is how this affects the high school experience. After being arounf this for over 10 years I can tell you people seek this experience, the clubs facillitate...

 

Also, open enrollment does not help a player transfer to another school. One still must move or sit out a year...

 

 

The clubs, through the parents, are picking the high school coaches, who then provide the money pipeline to these facilities.

 

Coach Helton seems to be a great guy. But it is hypocritical to say this isn't going on. There is no "secret" to the success of Williamson County Volleyball. The "secret" is sadly what it always is when money and business gets involved in youth sports.

 

 

 

You are right. When we went through the first time it was just Impact.

 

I suppose what is the hardest is that nothing is being done to address the problem. On this forum the biggest offenders usually get bragged about the most.

 

I have an in law that lived through the same thing with basketball in Jackson/Shelbyville.

 

 

Have to weigh in on a few issues.

 

First and foremost Father Ryan is NOT in Williamson County, gets totally unfavorable treatment on transfers( Stay tuned for one of these moments) and Jess Enderle coaches the freshmen at Ryan, none of whom played at Impact this year.

Club Volleyball, be it at Impact, Select, Nashville One or RC Juniors exists to help high schools what so ever,

The problem is how this affects the high school experience. After being arounf this for over 10 years I can tell you people seek this experience, the clubs facillitate...

 

Also, open enrollment does not help a player transfer to another school. One still must move or sit out a year...

[PHargis]

317, revealing post and same to pagefan and bruinbabe. Bragging and promotion is something I do and enjoy it. Addressing problems is something I am involved with on this forum with mixed results but something always seems to be made clearer when facts are stated, not by me, but by posting of others. Being able to suscinctly and quickly get viewpoints before they get cold is the best way to do it. pagefan, bruinbabe and I have expressed views and 317, if you will, would you tell us what problems you have seen in the process and while I am not knowledgable to know the financial dealings of what is going on in Williamson with Clubs and coaches and players and schools, maybe now is the time to get another viewpoint also from 317 as to offenses and procedures.

It is obvious that in one regard, Williamson's procedure of trying to select Teachers who can teach and coach volleyball and for that matter any othr sport is economical but for one thing. Qualifications of teachers needed with Volleyball experience are few. Club coaches fill the need for non faculty spots. however when a non faculty coach is hired, a faculty sponser has to be hired also who may or may not have a background. Next, not only in Williamson but in other counties, with the growth of the sport there are not enough VB Coaches. Its getting better but there are not enough. Next, parents spend quite a bit on Volleyball and there have not been enough clubs. It's getting better as far as the number of clubs. Next, more club teams are being formed, much more. As long as as many players are being trained and as many teams are occuring, the school system has to be aware of the lack of coaches for the sport and be able to fill in non faculty coaches. it is almost impossible to find enough Qualified to Teach teachers with VB experience. The rule that non faculty coaches can only have one sponsering asst teacher ,right now, is a flawed system especially when there might be as many as 21-24 players in a school playing.

For instance, look at District 1 and the number of students they have playing and the number of coaches they have at a school. look at other Districts and you will find the same numbers. i hate to say it but play has increased and the quality of play is much better also. parents think the coaching needs to be better. Most Districts have gotten behind in numbers. Thus is the problem I see without getting into the club, facility, cost situation.

[CheckerboardEndzones]

Have to weigh in on a few issues.

 

First and foremost Father Ryan is NOT in Williamson County, gets totally unfavorable treatment on transfers( Stay tuned for one of these moments) and Jess Enderle coaches the freshmen at Ryan, none of whom played at Impact this year.

Club Volleyball, be it at Impact, Select, Nashville One or RC Juniors exists to help high schools what so ever,

The problem is how this affects the high school experience. After being arounf this for over 10 years I can tell you people seek this experience, the clubs facillitate...

 

Also, open enrollment does not help a player transfer to another school. One still must move or sit out a year...

 

 

Great statement! This is what is being over looked by those complaining on this. Like I mentioned in the related thread, Memphis City school also have the open enrollment policy.

[Hoganknows]

The root of this situation is money, nothing else.

 

A-Game Sportsplex and the USBA Ultimate Sports Academy are for profit companies that make their money off of the families of high school and middle school athletes. Jay Golsteyn (father of Impact VB and former Franklin High School Coach) is the head VB person at A-Game. He makes money off of people using the facility and or taking his classes. Nothing wrong with that, it is a fair business, and he does a good job.

 

His right hand guy at Impact for many years was the Brentwood coach Jeff Frazier (technically an asst., but was gererally understood to be the VB guy behind the program) and a main person in utilizing the benefits of the Williamson County "open transfer" rule to build Brentwood High School into a volleyball dynasty.

 

Jess Endale is the Father Ryan asst coach, and the number 2 behind Golsteyn at A-Game.

 

Tracye Berry, longtime Page coach now at Ravenwood is the head of realitively new Williamson County Select which is the biggest customer of Unapproved Website Academy. Another USBA folk is Kim Miller who is now at Franklin and Shawn Robinson at BGA.

 

The problem is how this affects the high school experience.

 

Club is great, and definately helps the player. But, just like in AAU basketball lines can be crossed.

 

These multimillion dollar athletic facilities can only exist with Club and AAU participation. This is totally okay, and great to have these facilities.

 

Just like with everything else, the envelope gets pushed. The "open transfer" rule which is essentially unique to Williamson County lets the athletes pick where they want to play. The volunteer coach rule lets the high schools hire non-school people to coach.

 

The Clubs, ie Williamson and Impact can pay these coaches to increase club participation and to use their facilities. While everything starts out as noble, when big money gets involved, the sports suffers.

 

Facility needs players to make profit.

 

Clubs provide players.

 

Club Coaches invade high school ranks to get players.

 

Club/High School coaches basically require club participation to play high school ball.

 

High Schools like winning state championships and look the other way.

 

High School athlete plays club and thus funds Facility.

 

I am not trying to 'Start" anything but this is happening. Could Brentwood; Franklin: Page; Father Ryan etc really be as competitive without these favorable transfer rules and without the year round play and instruction that club provides?

 

I think we need to look at what is occuring. Volleyball is not football. Principals and school systems don't scrutinize it as closely.

 

The clubs, through the parents, are picking the high school coaches, who then provide the money pipeline to these facilities.

 

Coach Helton seems to be a great guy. But it is hypocritical to say this isn't going on. There is no "secret" to the success of Williamson County Volleyball. The "secret" is sadly what it always is when money and business gets involved in youth sports.

 

 

Great post!

[PHargis]

The root of this situation is money, nothing else.

 

A-Game Sportsplex and the USBA Ultimate Sports Academy are for profit companies that make their money off of the families of high school and middle school athletes. Jay Golsteyn (father of Impact VB and former Franklin High School Coach) is the head VB person at A-Game. He makes money off of people using the facility and or taking his classes. Nothing wrong with that, it is a fair business, and he does a good job.

 

His right hand guy at Impact for many years was the Brentwood coach Jeff Frazier (technically an asst., but was gererally understood to be the VB guy behind the program) and a main person in utilizing the benefits of the Williamson County "open transfer" rule to build Brentwood High School into a volleyball dynasty.

 

Jess Endale is the Father Ryan asst coach, and the number 2 behind Golsteyn at A-Game.

 

Tracye Berry, longtime Page coach now at Ravenwood is the head of realitively new Williamson County Select which is the biggest customer of Unapproved Website Academy. Another USBA folk is Kim Miller who is now at Franklin and Shawn Robinson at BGA.

 

The problem is how this affects the high school experience.

 

Club is great, and definately helps the player. But, just like in AAU basketball lines can be crossed.

 

These multimillion dollar athletic facilities can only exist with Club and AAU participation. This is totally okay, and great to have these facilities.

 

Just like with everything else, the envelope gets pushed. The "open transfer" rule which is essentially unique to Williamson County lets the athletes pick where they want to play. The volunteer coach rule lets the high schools hire non-school people to coach.

 

The Clubs, ie Williamson and Impact can pay these coaches to increase club participation and to use their facilities. While everything starts out as noble, when big money gets involved, the sports suffers.

 

Facility needs players to make profit.

 

Clubs provide players.

 

Club Coaches invade high school ranks to get players.

 

Club/High School coaches basically require club participation to play high school ball.

 

High Schools like winning state championships and look the other way.

 

High School athlete plays club and thus funds Facility.

 

I am not trying to 'Start" anything but this is happening. Could Brentwood; Franklin: Page; Father Ryan etc really be as competitive without these favorable transfer rules and without the year round play and instruction that club provides?

 

I think we need to look at what is occuring. Volleyball is not football. Principals and school systems don't scrutinize it as closely.

 

The clubs, through the parents, are picking the high school coaches, who then provide the money pipeline to these facilities.

 

Coach Helton seems to be a great guy. But it is hypocritical to say this isn't going on. There is no "secret" to the success of Williamson County Volleyball. The "secret" is sadly what it always is when money and business gets involved in youth sports.

Pagefan, I have read your post over and over and finally get from it what you may be trying to say and that is providing the business and being connected with it may have been a way to pay for it. If thats not the connection you may be trying to make, you will correct me. The facilities you mentioned and the connections, as you mentioned crossed many lines and AAU was one of them and finally became connections for youth programs who were having a problem finding housing since WC Schools were reluctant to rent faciilities. It became obvious that places to play were the major hurdle for athletic development in the county for young players. Many people knew this as players were going to neighboring counties to play, Williamson parks had done a good job with soccer fields. Basketball, off season, had no housing and volleyball in the williamson area had really no housing in the summer and Impact wound up traveling out of state with volleyball. Some individuals realized the interest and started finding a way to house summer off season sports. Real Estate in Williamson was high and finding inexpensive housing for a facitity was difficult. So was the birth of A1 and USVB buildings. As was noted, the buildings had to be paid for. Impact moved from the lavergne area, williamson select was already there, and A! was configured for AAU Basketball, volleyball, hockey with all of the parking and retail that went with it..

As I heard of it, and never really saw it, it fit the needs for Williamson County Youth but had to be expensive as was property in Williamson. There are good intentions for the businessmen who started the two facilities. As you mentioned, the business plans had to have help to have a facility to take care of youth sports in Williamson. What was done for all was done with good intentions and i will have to stop there because being totally accurate as to what happened to make it a success is out of my knowledge. The events in the buildings this past year have been well attended. Whether the business plan is still working and what the plan is, I am unsure. Your comment on business and money with a venture like this is correct and everything has to work perfectly to make it work and when it doesn't ways on keeping the cash flow going takes over what ever that is.

Events in schools still work during the year. The facilities for summer play are still going on. Pagefan, what you are alluding to is something else and you need to ask your question straight out as to what the investigation is all about. You have the facts. The schools run athletics and coaches are hired by schools and supplemented by booster clubs. Williamson county is one of the toughest School Districts for not wanting to hire non faculty coaches and sometime wait late to do that. They want teacher/coaches. If they have to they will hire some non faculty. Does impact control Volleyball in Williamson. They would like to be of help as would Select and any other clubs. Especially would they like to help if a player needs them. A lot of high profile players play for them as do some play for other clubs. P4k gave her opinion, I don't know. I'm not from Williamson.

If players don'tuse those facilities in the summer, where are they going to play. In schools but it was heard that Williamson county does not like the gyms used in the summer.