PRIVATE VS. PUBLIC

[big red big blue]

The problem with this debate today remains the same as it was fifteen years ago -- too many people on either side of the aisle are unwilling to consider the others' perspective, too many are unwilling to admit that there may be some holes in their own arguments. That leaves the loudest proponents on each side in positions where they simply refuse to compromise. Consequently they don't offer viable solutions, they just complain about the solutions that others are left to try and develop.

I am sure that what you say is mostly true for most independent schools. But in the breadth of your statements, applied without exception, you may be ignoring a couple of elephants that were in the room when Division II was created. On the flip side, I personally think it was wrong for some of the most vocal public school leaders to lump all the independent schools together as though they were all the same.

 

It would be nice to see some public and independent school leaders come together and start exploring new ideas for how to improve the situation. It is going to take some creative thinking. Unfortunately, there really wasn't enough of that going on fifteen years ago, and there isn't enough of it now.

 

There you go again...Please, offer for the rest of us just what it is that we have today (or had back then) to negotiate with? There's nothing we can offer them today, just like it was back in '96. A group of upset, whiny people used their numerical advantage to ram through a system that made it so that they didn't have to play us anymore (which of course, Ronnie Carter years later admitted was in violation of the TSSAA bylaws). End of story. I guess we can make some promise to throw games and lose enough to satisfy them, but other than what is it, exactly, that we have to negotiate with?

[PHargis]

With the quote which I read in the paper according to the current director of the TSSAA, I understand your question and where you are coming from. And I'm afraid you are somewhat right. One thing that is for sure, if a Director can get 3 Board of Control people together with 12 coaches to get something as insignificant as a football schedule straightened out after one season of operation, surely there is a way to find a way for adults to sit down and Find out what the current facts are, and explain there will have to be a way to compromise and that that is the mission of the meeting. After all Arkansas has schools playing together. it may not be pretty but at least you have to realize, its not something that can't be accomplished. I think your question is also a realization that by numbers, 325 schools to 50 schools is a large majority. In high schools there seems to be a number of issues. In schools teaching younger kids, grades 1-5 and 6-8, may be more issues. Its possible that the BA issues were so polarized, no one wanted to try to to find solutions due to the circumstances.

[rick7425]

There you go again...Please, offer for the rest of us just what it is that we have today (or had back then) to negotiate with? There's nothing we can offer them today, just like it was back in '96. A group of upset, whiny people used their numerical advantage to ram through a system that made it so that they didn't have to play us anymore (which of course, Ronnie Carter years later admitted was in violation of the TSSAA bylaws). End of story. I guess we can make some promise to throw games and lose enough to satisfy them, but other than what is it, exactly, that we have to negotiate with?

 

BRBB, you and Itzme can't even recognize when someone agrees with part of what you say. You just want to argue because you don't get total concessions. That actually was part of the problem the independent school leaders had in 1996 -- they had no appreciation for the fact that the actions of a couple of prominent independent schools were soiling their arguments for eliminating the quotas altogether.

 

I got off of this board before because I was tired of exchanges like this. I think I will do so again. Politics is more interesting.

[big red big blue]

There you go again...Please, offer for the rest of us just what it is that we have today (or had back then) to negotiate with? There's nothing we can offer them today, just like it was back in '96. A group of upset, whiny people used their numerical advantage to ram through a system that made it so that they didn't have to play us anymore (which of course, Ronnie Carter years later admitted was in violation of the TSSAA bylaws). End of story. I guess we can make some promise to throw games and lose enough to satisfy them, but other than what is it, exactly, that we have to negotiate with?

 

BRBB, you and Itzme can't even recognize when someone agrees with part of what you say. You just want to argue because you don't get total concessions. That actually was part of the problem the independent school leaders had in 1996 -- they had no appreciation for the fact that the actions of a couple of prominent independent schools were soiling their arguments for eliminating the quotas altogether.

 

I got off of this board before because I was tired of exchanges like this. I think I will do so again. Politics is more interesting.

 

Every time I read this version of events it still makes me laugh...I mean, how absurd. The people like the Riverdale principal are furiously arguing that the financial aid granting schools be booted out altogether, and meanwhile the private schools are arguing (according to Rick) not only that we not be kicked out, but that we stay together AND be allowed to do whatever we want with financial aid...so we "compromise" with being kicked out. Just too funny.

 

So long, Rick. I'll be on the look out in the blogosphere for a take on the health care debate like this...

 

Democrats: want tax-payer funded universal health care.

Republicans: not only don't want universal health care, but also want to eliminate medicare and medicaid at the very instance Democrats (in the majority) want universal healthcare.

So let's compromise with universal health care.

Okay.

[rick7425]

Every time I read this version of events it still makes me laugh...I mean, how absurd. The people like the Riverdale principal are furiously arguing that the financial aid granting schools be booted out altogether, and meanwhile the private schools are arguing (according to Rick) not only that we not be kicked out, but that we stay together AND be allowed to do whatever we want with financial aid...so we "compromise" with being kicked out. Just too funny.

 

So long, Rick. I'll be on the look out in the blogosphere for a take on the health care debate like this...

 

Democrats: want tax-payer funded universal health care.

Republicans: not only don't want universal health care, but also want to eliminate medicare and medicaid at the very instance Democrats (in the majority) want universal healthcare.

So let's compromise with universal health care.

Okay.

Sorry, couldn't resist this one. Yes, some private schools were arguing for elimination of the quotas on need-based financial aid recipient eligibility while keeping all the schools together -- that is a fact, not just "according to Rick." Yes, people like the Riverdale principal (you left out the Brentwood High principal) were furiously arguing to kick out not just the aid-granting schools but all independent schools. Neither thing happened. Instead, Division II was created to provide a separate playoff classification for aid-granting schools (this was for the benefit of public school people who thought the aid-granting schools had an unfair advantage); independent schools that did not give financial aid to athletes could remain in Division I (that was for the benefit of those schools, and it gave independent schools generally a choice even if it was one that was difficult for many schools); and the schools within Division II no longer had to deal with the problems that they claimed the quotas created for them (this was for the benefit of the aid-granting schools who had been complaining for several years about the quotas).

 

Call it funny or absurd if you wish. It is a lot easier to disregard facts that don't suit your arguments, or to be derisive about those who dare to see things a little differently than you do, than it is to discuss the real issues or search for real solutions.

 

At least wait a few days before you post another one like your last one, so maybe I won't still be looking in.

[itzme]

There you go again...Please, offer for the rest of us just what it is that we have today (or had back then) to negotiate with? There's nothing we can offer them today, just like it was back in '96. A group of upset, whiny people used their numerical advantage to ram through a system that made it so that they didn't have to play us anymore (which of course, Ronnie Carter years later admitted was in violation of the TSSAA bylaws). End of story. I guess we can make some promise to throw games and lose enough to satisfy them, but other than what is it, exactly, that we have to negotiate with?

 

BRBB, you and Itzme can't even recognize when someone agrees with part of what you say. You just want to argue because you don't get total concessions. That actually was part of the problem the independent school leaders had in 1996 -- they had no appreciation for the fact that the actions of a couple of prominent independent schools were soiling their arguments for eliminating the quotas altogether.

 

I got off of this board before because I was tired of exchanges like this. I think I will do so again. Politics is more interesting.

 

Rick, don't gin up a false argument. Another nice piece of "flair", but disingenuous. Please point out where I was arguing for a change. I know better than that. No change will occur, except that which already has; i.e. a thawing of relations enough so that some publics are willing to play some privates. My posts were simply to point out the absurd contention that this was in any way a compromise in the common usage of that word. It was a very one-sided "compromise". I really don't have major issues with the current set up, as long as the DII teams aren't forced to travel 100's of miles to play a mediocre team in the preseason.

 

I hope that eventually even Riverdale, Brentwood and even Maryville will come around and recognize that playing against the DII teams on a regular basis is not only good for their teams, but a lot of fun for their kids and communities as well. As for a full and complete reunion in the postseason, it will never happen