Jump to content

PRIVATE VS. PUBLIC


dou
 Share

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 113
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

I found this article in the wrestling forum thought it fit better here.

http://chattanoogan.com/articles/article_164921.asp

 

Certainly not a fan of the T$$AA, or it's policies, but the T$$AA did not create private schools.

Had the privates not decided to leave public school to create their own, there would be no

split. The T$$AA merely governs the aftermath, in it's on feeble way.

Just for what it's worth, regarding the authors reference to there being no blacks in the building,

the Executive Director, Bernard Childress, is black. I will agree the rest of the make up regarding

minorities, female, etc. is lacking, as is most everything else they do.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I found this article in the wrestling forum thought it fit better here.

http://chattanoogan.com/articles/article_164921.asp

 

Great article. As to Grunts explanation as to the creation of private schools, Grunt ignores many of the primary reasons for private schools apparently for lack of knowledge, I guess. Again, great article. :lol:

 

Ps Private schools are here to stay. The first private schools that existed were Catholic schools and only an idiot would say they were created with anything other than a quality education in mind. There is no argument to this. There were Catholic schools before the sports of football or basketball even existed. Sports is secondary or it should be. Public schools should concern themselves with the business of giving their students a quality education and perhaps Tennessee can climb out of 44th or 45th ranking in the country in public education. PBS one more thought, Grunt states that the TSSAA did not create private schools, that is correct. But private schools were forced into Div II if they gave financial aid to an athlete which many parents and students need in order to attend. So Grunt kept asserting that he wasn't talking about financial aid directly, but he was indirectly even if he didn't know it. When I state they were forced out, many private schools could not in good conscience stop financial aid for a sporting reason. Just because a student happens to play sports and does not have the financial resources to attend the school of his or her choice, should they be punished by no aid. No No No No, they should be afforded every opportunity that any other student has access to. Some people only care about any of these issues only in so far as they involve sports. But the issues are not that simple. They involve people's lives and hopes and dreams. Now what is most important? Div II folks and most public school folks know the answer to the question, and it isn't sports.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Great article. As to Grunts explanation as to the creation of private schools, Grunt ignores many of the primary reasons for private schools apparently for lack of knowledge, I guess. Again, great article. :lol:

 

Ps Private schools are here to stay. The first private schools that existed were Catholic schools and only an idiot would say they were created with anything other than a quality education in mind. There is no argument to this. There were Catholic schools before the sports of football or basketball even existed. Sports is secondary or it should be. Public schools should concern themselves with the business of giving their students a quality education and perhaps Tennessee can climb out of 44th or 45th ranking in the country in public education. PBS one more thought, Grunt states that the TSSAA did not create private schools, that is correct. But private schools were forced into Div II if they gave financial aid to an athlete which many parents and students need in order to attend. So Grunt kept asserting that he wasn't talking about financial aid directly, but he was indirectly even if he didn't know it. When I state they were forced out, many private schools could not in good conscience stop financial aid for a sporting reason. Just because a student happens to play sports and does not have the financial resources to attend the school of his or her choice, should they be punished by no aid. No No No No, they should be afforded every opportunity that any other student has access to. Some people only care about any of these issues only in so far as they involve sports. But the issues are not that simple. They involve people's lives and hopes and dreams. Now what is most important? Div II folks and most public school folks know the answer to the question, and it isn't sports.

 

You should be in politics. You spin my post to bolster yours. I never disagreed as to "why" private

schools were created. Also, I couldn't care less if they give financial aid or not. Regardless how

you distort my post, I never mentioned financial aid, except as a reply to your mention of it.

Agreed, privates are here to stay, barring the economy hitting rock bottom to the point families

can't afford to send the kids there, and some of this has happened already to a minor degree.

My point, and I have made it plain enough for most to understand, is simply this. Our public

school isn't good enough for your child, and this is the reason you give, great, take that child

to the private school, where they won't be exposed to the lowly public school curriculum,etc.,

just don't come hauling them back to play against these same lowly schools & their unworthy

environment. No one has yet to explain why they feel the need to grace us with their presence

in sports. If you want to go to school in your bubble, play in the same bubble.

You may need us on Fri. nite..we don't need or want you. Go to DII & play with your own kind.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Thanks for responding...but you really didn't answer my question, at least not directly. Did it look to you like BBS "cherry-picked" (your term) the best athletes of the two teams on the field during the BC Bowl? No knock on my BBS boys but it didn't look that way to me.

 

OK, I'll give it another shot, maybe I misread the question. It's obvious that BBS

didn't "cherry pick" from the two teams in the BC Bowl. End result would likely have been different.

If that is what you meant.

 

As far as "star athletes" walking in the door, it has not happened very often during the twenty-plus years I have known anything about BBS. I would venture to say TC has had more that fit into that category than BBS has had. The enrollment at BBS is down a little from its peak a couple of years ago and I believe they have spots open at virtually every grade level from pre-K through 12th grade...so they really can't be too "selective." They would love to have all of those spots filled because they want to offer a Christian education to as many kids as would like to take advantage of it. The admissions process does not include a bench press test, shuttle run or a 40 yard dash timing...pretty sure about that.

 

For a variety of reasons, TC doesn't have athletes knocking on our door. You need

some incentive for parents to move here...there are none.

 

I've heard that line about "nine counties" regarding FCS's student base so often that I have begun to wonder if it is an advantage or a disadvantage. You guys never seem to have much trouble with them on the football field!

 

It's true, TC hasn't had a lingering problem with FCS on the football field. You have to

realize though, that there are other schools in their wide ranging area that are not so fortunate.

It's just as unfair to them to have to compete when one or two of these athletes that might otherwise

be playing for school A, instead end up playing for FCS. Could be a difference maker in school A's

season.

Frankly, I just don't like that way of doing business.

 

 

Thanks for the compliment toward the Bucs' effort. I thought they played hard and came up a little short. Frankly, I thought they were outmanned. Congratulations to TC on continuiing your domination of all schools (public or private) in whatever class you find yourselves. Your record is exemplary in that regard. Your program should be a model for all small public schools to follow.

 

I'm sure the Bucs will be back in the hunt again. The Jackets will have some work

to do before we climb the hill to Cookeville again. But, who knows, stranger things have

happened I suppose.

 

Thanks for answering my questions. Fair and honest answers, all. I always find you to be that way, even if I disagree with some of your opinions. To follow up just one more time, I have this question: If TC (along with South Pitt and some others) can compete and even dominate the private schools you face, in your opinion, why can't other small public schools do the same or at least be more competitive? It seems most small public schools are very similar. Most are from rural counties without a large population base from which to choose. I get that. But why can TC and SP do it but others can't?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Great article. As to Grunts explanation as to the creation of private schools, Grunt ignores many of the primary reasons for private schools apparently for lack of knowledge, I guess. Again, great article. :thumb:

 

Ps Private schools are here to stay. The first private schools that existed were Catholic schools and only an idiot would say they were created with anything other than a quality education in mind. There is no argument to this. There were Catholic schools before the sports of football or basketball even existed. Sports is secondary or it should be. Public schools should concern themselves with the business of giving their students a quality education and perhaps Tennessee can climb out of 44th or 45th ranking in the country in public education. PBS one more thought, Grunt states that the TSSAA did not create private schools, that is correct. But private schools were forced into Div II if they gave financial aid to an athlete which many parents and students need in order to attend. So Grunt kept asserting that he wasn't talking about financial aid directly, but he was indirectly even if he didn't know it. When I state they were forced out, many private schools could not in good conscience stop financial aid for a sporting reason. Just because a student happens to play sports and does not have the financial resources to attend the school of his or her choice, should they be punished by no aid. No No No No, they should be afforded every opportunity that any other student has access to. Some people only care about any of these issues only in so far as they involve sports. But the issues are not that simple. They involve people's lives and hopes and dreams. Now what is most important? Div II folks and most public school folks know the answer to the question, and it isn't sports.

 

You should be in politics. You spin my post to bolster yours. I never disagreed as to "why" private

schools were created. Also, I couldn't care less if they give financial aid or not. Regardless how

you distort my post, I never mentioned financial aid, except as a reply to your mention of it.

Agreed, privates are here to stay, barring the economy hitting rock bottom to the point families

can't afford to send the kids there, and some of this has happened already to a minor degree.

My point, and I have made it plain enough for most to understand, is simply this. Our public

school isn't good enough for your child, and this is the reason you give, great, take that child

to the private school, where they won't be exposed to the lowly public school curriculum,etc.,

just don't come hauling them back to play against these same lowly schools & their unworthy

environment. No one has yet to explain why they feel the need to grace us with their presence

in sports. If you want to go to school in your bubble, play in the same bubble.

You may need us on Fri. nite..we don't need or want you. Go to DII & play with your own kind.

 

I fully understand your position, its just not a very good one. As I posted before, you have stated very clearly that if you don't do things the way Grunt thinks they should be, get out. but where throughout the world is that practiced, only a few places that I would not want to live.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

it is evidently practiced in your neighborhood whereever that is. STbulldog, you have been in that bubble too long and its evident. You have been away from the real world of diversity so long you think it shold be for everyone. It isn't, can't be, and if you exist in Nashville, you have never been able too. Thats the truth. Maybe that attitude is the reason schools have a problem in scheduling your school. And maybe it is something uglier due to your schools attitude, what ever that meant. A suggestion, why don't you back off just a little bit. Your perception is way out of line. You are not an ELITE. Take care of what you need to take care of. And just hope you resolve your conflict with Grunt. He means everything he says. And thats the truth.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

it is evidently practiced in your neighborhood whereever that is. STbulldog, you have been in that bubble too long and its evident. You have been away from the real world of diversity so long you think it shold be for everyone. It isn't, can't be, and if you exist in Nashville, you have never been able too. Thats the truth. Maybe that attitude is the reason schools have a problem in scheduling your school. And maybe it is something uglier due to your schools attitude, what ever that meant. A suggestion, why don't you back off just a little bit. Your perception is way out of line. You are not an ELITE. Take care of what you need to take care of. And just hope you resolve your conflict with Grunt. He means everything he says. And thats the truth.

 

I have no conflict with anyone. Once again for the umpteenth time, you don't know what you are talking about. Nobody has any trouble scheduling Ryan, that is an outright lie. Why don't you back off alot and everyone would be happier except for the few people who think like you do which is the following: If you don't agree or think as (Hargis) does, then (Hargis will attack, post untrue statements and anything else he can think of to attempt to discredit another poster. You have no reason to hope anything concerning my posts or Grunts. Why don't you mind your own business or when posting, put your comments up without having to attack another person. I disagree with his position fully and I don't care whether he believes something or not. I happen to believe my posts and have more than biased opinion for forming them. Thats what seperates us, thank God. PS Once again, you fibbed and responded to my post, you said you were never going to do that again, just can't resist, can you. :roflol:

PBS By the way Grunt, I never stated in any shape form or fashion that public schools are lowly, that is your statement. I have tons of friends that attend or have attended public schools. I have no idea what the ignore poster Hargis means by elite. Nobody is elite except maybe in their own mind. I have a duty to obtain the best education possible for my children. I also have a personal duty to teach all aspects of our particular faith and to place them in an atmosphere where they can live it out. If that is elitist, then I am guilty. Once again, this statement about difficulty scheduling Ryan or any private if it was fully explored would reveal that it is the public schools who hesitate to schedule. Finally, there is just no reasonable defense for the position of "if you don't like it, leave it". That kind of thinking has only led to suffering and pain in the past. I do have a suggestion, why don't you buy an island and start your own country. You could call it Gruntville and if anyone doesn't follow the rules, you can set them adrift on the ocean.

PBSS One last thought and this is to PH. Quit trying to control these boards, if you want to do that, you need to make Coach T an offer. Remember, I don't care what you think after reading your posts in the past, so don't try to persuade me to do anything. Perhaps you need to start a little Hargisville too.

PBSSS I couldn't let this statement pass, what in the friggin world has diversity go to do with this topic. Nobody strives for diversity more than private schools, we want it and love it. It is such a given that I see no need to even bring it up. If you were as smart as you act, you would know that Catholicism is the most diverse religion in the world. How dare you make an accusation of that nature with absolutely no evidence to back it up. A short history lesson, who is the very first school in Tennessee to show diversity in a most profound way, both in sports and various other ways, guess what the answer is.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I found this article in the wrestling forum thought it fit better here.

http://chattanoogan.com/articles/article_164921.asp

I didn't think so much of Mr. Exum's opinion piece. He has been a bit sloppy with the facts in order to support his opinion. Some facts he missed: (1) there is one voting member of the TSSAA Legislative Council who is from a private school, Steve Harris of FRA; (2) there are several "ex officio" members of the Legislative Council and Board of Control who sit at the table and have equal input at meetings, although they do not have a vote, and one of those is a representative chosen by the independent schools; (3) there is a separate Division II Committee that meets regularly and provides input and recommendations to the Board of Control and the Legislative Council; (4) there are no independent school heads on the Board of Control in part because they do not seek a position -- these are elected positions, and the only way to get elected is to run; (5) there have been four occasions when independent school heads have run for positions on the Board of Control, and they won two of the four times; (6) there have been women who served on the Legislative Council or Board of Control, but again to do so one must run for election -- TSSAA does not appoint the members of these bodies, they are member school administrators who run for election within the nine geographic districts from which they are chosen; (7) there have been any number of African-American members of the Board of Control.

 

He also is a little bit unfair with his criticism of TSSAA related to the creation of Division II. Before Division II was created, TSSAA had a "quota rule" that limited the number of student-athletes receiving need-based financial aid who would be eligible in the various sports. The quota rule actually originated with independent schools to deal with concerns that the larger and better financed independent schools would use financial aid to lure students away from the independent schools that were not as well financed. Over the years, the financial aid and quota rule issues became problematic for public and independent schools alike. The dominance of a couple of private schools in football (and to a lesser degree wrestling) led some public school principals to complain that financial aid was being used to lure talented athletes away from the public schools. At the same time, a number of private schools were complaining that the limitation of the quota rule was unfair because it forced students and their families to choose between aid and participation in a school activity, and it also was contrary to the missions of those schools to have broad participation among their students in interscholastic athletics. There were a number of "committee" meetings to address these issues in the early 1990s, but they made little progress. Eventually the loudest proponents of the various positions on these issues became more and more vocal, finding whatever ammunition they could to support their positions -- the position of some public school heads that there should be complete separation between public and private schools for athletics, and the position of some independent school heads that there should be no restrictions on the number of students who could receive need-based aid and participate in athletics. Ultimately, the creation of the Division II classification was a compromise of sorts, designed to avoid the extreme consequences of either position. There would be separation of sorts (although the schools still could compete in the regular season by choice) between schools that give need-based aid to students who participate in athletics and those that do not, and there would be no more quotas for those schools that went to Division II. This is not the best of results, not fully satisfactory to anyone, but that is in essence the definition of a compromise. It is something that no one fully likes but everyone can manage to live with. And it seems better than either of the more extreme alternatives would have been for the mass of member schools, both public and independent, that comprise the TSSAA.

 

Personally, I would like to see the exploration of other more creative alternatives to facilitate bringing and keeping the various types of schools together rather than splitting them up. But in the meantime, I just don't think Mr. Exum's criticism of TSSAA, while offered with some journalistic flair, is justified or based in fact.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I found this article in the wrestling forum thought it fit better here.

http://chattanoogan.com/articles/article_164921.asp

I didn't think so much of Mr. Exum's opinion piece. He has been a bit sloppy with the facts in order to support his opinion. Some facts he missed: (1) there is one voting member of the TSSAA Legislative Council who is from a private school, Steve Harris of FRA; (2) there are several "ex officio" members of the Legislative Council and Board of Control who sit at the table and have equal input at meetings, although they do not have a vote, and one of those is a representative chosen by the independent schools; (3) there is a separate Division II Committee that meets regularly and provides input and recommendations to the Board of Control and the Legislative Council; (4) there are no independent school heads on the Board of Control in part because they do not seek a position -- these are elected positions, and the only way to get elected is to run; (5) there have been four occasions when independent school heads have run for positions on the Board of Control, and they won two of the four times; (6) there have been women who served on the Legislative Council or Board of Control, but again to do so one must run for election -- TSSAA does not appoint the members of these bodies, they are member school administrators who run for election within the nine geographic districts from which they are chosen; (7) there have been any number of African-American members of the Board of Control.

 

He also is a little bit unfair with his criticism of TSSAA related to the creation of Division II. Before Division II was created, TSSAA had a "quota rule" that limited the number of student-athletes receiving need-based financial aid who would be eligible in the various sports. The quota rule actually originated with independent schools to deal with concerns that the larger and better financed independent schools would use financial aid to lure students away from the independent schools that were not as well financed. Over the years, the financial aid and quota rule issues became problematic for public and independent schools alike. The dominance of a couple of private schools in football (and to a lesser degree wrestling) led some public school principals to complain that financial aid was being used to lure talented athletes away from the public schools. At the same time, a number of private schools were complaining that the limitation of the quota rule was unfair because it forced students and their families to choose between aid and participation in a school activity, and it also was contrary to the missions of those schools to have broad participation among their students in interscholastic athletics. There were a number of "committee" meetings to address these issues in the early 1990s, but they made little progress. Eventually the loudest proponents of the various positions on these issues became more and more vocal, finding whatever ammunition they could to support their positions -- the position of some public school heads that there should be complete separation between public and private schools for athletics, and the position of some independent school heads that there should be no restrictions on the number of students who could receive need-based aid and participate in athletics. Ultimately, the creation of the Division II classification was a compromise of sorts, designed to avoid the extreme consequences of either position. There would be separation of sorts (although the schools still could compete in the regular season by choice) between schools that give need-based aid to students who participate in athletics and those that do not, and there would be no more quotas for those schools that went to Division II. This is not the best of results, not fully satisfactory to anyone, but that is in essence the definition of a compromise. It is something that no one fully likes but everyone can manage to live with. And it seems better than either of the more extreme alternatives would have been for the mass of member schools, both public and independent, that comprise the TSSAA.

 

Personally, I would like to see the exploration of other more creative alternatives to facilitate bringing and keeping the various types of schools together rather than splitting them up. But in the meantime, I just don't think Mr. Exum's criticism of TSSAA, while offered with some journalistic flair, is justified or based in fact.

Thanks for the post Rick I learned something I did not know on the TSSAA.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

Announcements


×
  • Create New...