Ensworth Recruiting

[eers]

There is no denying that Division II is pay for play school/football. Either you are paying to go there or someone else is paying for you to go there. That being said I would not be opposed to mykidsdad kid going there. However when that was a legitimate issue mykidsdad kid expressed zero interest.

 

I firmly believe that is money well spent, whom ever's money that is.

[feverpitch]

So, a kid that wants to attend Alabama because they are a national football powerhouse and have the potential to do it again, or because they will receive great preparation for the next level and they might realize their dream of playing in the NFL... is that unrealistic? Do you suppose that most kids want to play in the SEC because it is a strong conference with numerous teams ranked in the top 20 in the nation and with that comes exposure and opportunity? I submit that these kids are attracted to these programs because of the school's history; what they offer, football and otherwise; and not because they were recruited.

[eers]

So, a kid that wants to attend Alabama because they are a national football powerhouse and have the potential to do it again, or because they will receive great preparation for the next level and they might realize their dream of playing in the NFL... is that unrealistic? Do you suppose that most kids want to play in the SEC because it is a strong conference with numerous teams ranked in the top 20 in the nation and with that comes exposure and opportunity? I submit that these kids are attracted to these programs because of the school's history; what they offer, football and otherwise; and not because they were recruited.

Explain kids leaving Sumner County schools to go to JPII...

[cbg]

Explain kids leaving Sumner County schools to go to JPII...

 

Could it be that it is a Catholic family and the family made the decision for their child to receive a Catholic education? There are thousands of reasons why a family would select a private school over a public school just as there are thousands of reasons why a family would select a public school over a private school. Why would a family select a magnet school over one of the inner city Metro Nashville Public Schools? Do the kids graduating from Pope John Paul II have a higher mean ACT score than the kids from Sumner County Public Schools? I have been told that it was announced during a football game that the 2010 graduates from Father Ryan had a mean ACT of 28 which seems very high in my opinion.

Edited October 6, 2010 by cbg

[shakinthefat]

Explain kids leaving Sumner County schools to go to JPII...

 

Develop students to serve others.

Prepares students to be strong in mind, body, character and spirit.

Prayer is encouraged, 40 Days For Life Prayer Vigil.

Christian Service Internship

26000 hours of student volunteer service to 35 local charities.

75 students receive AP scholar awards last year.

Honor and dress code.

An average of $93000 per graduating student of college scholarship awarded last year.

Small teacher/student ratio.

Read more -

http://www.jp2hs.org/about.cfm

[mykidsdad]

Develop students to serve others.

Prepares students to be strong in mind, body, character and spirit.

Prayer is encouraged, 40 Days For Life Prayer Vigil.

Christian Service Internship

26000 hours of student volunteer service to 35 local charities.

75 students receive AP scholar awards last year.

Honor and dress code.

An average of $93000 per graduating student of college scholarship awarded last year.

Small teacher/student ratio.

Read more -

http://www.jp2hs.org/about.cfm

 

 

Like I said, money well spent. Though I don't think it's fair to lump all private's into the same category. Some schools religous commitment is as much as making sure we got that one covered in the brochure.

Edited October 6, 2010 by mykidsdad

[rollredroll]

I would amend a statement above to say, “Either you are paying to go there, someone else is paying for you to go there, or there is a mixture of both.â€

 

For all of the talk about “full scholarshipsâ€, I would encourage those interested in learning more about financial aid to check out guidestar.org. Pull form 990 (in layman’s terms, the tax return) for a private school, and, for those schools for whom transparency is not an issue (and when it comes to the reporting of school “facts and figuresâ€, the lack of transparency of some schools is readily noticeable), one can find the amount of financial aid provided (call it x) and the number of students receiving it (y). The average aid grant per student (z) on financial aid would be x/y.

 

Next, take z and subtract that amount from the tuition, as posted on the school’s website. One may want to adjust that tuition amount for inflation back to the tax year in question. Tuition less z equals the average amount of money the average student on aid is paying out of pocket to attend school. That amount is going to differ from school to school, but many of these numbers are going to be in the thousands of dollars area, and some of those average out-of-pocket costs are approaching five figures.

 

Many of the schools in question in such a debate have annual tuitions in the $15K-$20K range. The average aid amount, in many cases, is a fraction of that – generally a fraction less than 50%. It would not be uncommon to find a school where the annual tuition is $16K and the average aid grant per student on aid is $8K, which means the average student on aid is coming out of pocket another $8K. In such a scenario, any student that is labeled a “full scholarship†student at such a school has to be offset by an “on aid†student receiving $0 in aid to maintain that $8K average. Of course, a student who receives $0 in aid is not a student on aid (and hence the hole shot in the theory that there are a lot of aid grants at or approaching 100%).

 

These numbers are there for public consumption – no fuzzy math, no smoke and mirrors. Anyone who wants to dispute such numbers is essentially saying a school is submitting a fraudulent tax return – a debate that is largely inane, yet one that some axe-grinders dare to pursue (and yet question why the level-headed run from the debate at that point of futility). Furthermore, I don’t know any affluent families that made their fortunes diverting venture capital/investment dollars to the funding of individual tuitions of progeny not their own. What’s the ROI on a state title trophy for a donor? Any amount above 0.0% is questionable.

 

Personally, I would never try to argue against the benefits of financial aid. But here are my two biggest issues surrounding financial aid:

 

1. Given the data above – the fact that the average family on aid is still coming out of pocket thousands of dollars – I don’t understand arguments that a private school’s potential pool of students is unlimited or borderless.

 

2. A family can pay $8K towards tuition at Ensworth and the student, who will be on aid, can play sports. Same family can travel two miles down the road to CPA, pay $8K out of pocket, and be on aid, but less aid, yet the student can’t play sports. Something is amiss there.

Edited October 6, 2010 by rollredroll

[mtnrasslin]

Perhaps at some schools and with some kids, but not "for the most part". I just don't buy it.

It appears that you don't know much about the kids or the schools.

[sportshooter]

I'll use one and two syllable words in the vain hope you can follow. We take offense at the recrutiing charge because recruiting is against the rules. You're saying that all of our athletic accomplishments are illegitimate. You are accusing us of cheating.

 

If everybody does it, then it shouldn't be that hard to provide the name of one person who was illegally recruited. In my years on this board, I have seen this accusation uncontable times, and yet no one has ever offered a scintillla of evidence. You restate the accusation, or beg the question, but never has one of the accusers offered what all of us (and the TSSAA) are waiting for: ONE NAME!

My kid plays in DII and I don't take offense...I agree with the poster. Is it illegal for a parent sending his kid to a private to recruit his child's middle school teammate? And once an athlete contacts the school the coach can legally start the recruiting process. Do some coaches go beyond this and bend or break the rules? You would have to be pretty naive to think otherwise.

[eers]

It appears that you don't know much about the kids or the schools.

Actually I would say that I know 8-10 at different schools and more than half are there for sports, not all the other things that the brochure talks about. Though I'll not say they were illegally "recruited", they were coerced by people "associated" with the athletic programs.

 

Though not illegal... One parent returning to MS games with their freshman son, making certain to speak to all the parents of the "better" players. Again, not illegal on the surface, but it is "recruiting". Kind of like the UT hostesses?? That was under investigation because they were an "extension" of the university. Now is that apples to apples, probably not, but it is recruiting! Unless we are there we don't know if the coach, AD, school official had any input.

 

We all know that there are some things that go on in the "gray" area that make some coaches/schools better than others at getting athletes. Now that is not to say that some players don't go for the exposure, as they certainly do.

 

I fully believe it happens and that is fine by me. That's why there is another division. What I don't like is that everyone treats it as taboo and acts like it doesn't happen, ANYWHERE. Sure there are people that go for the other things in the "brochure" and some because it is a family tradition/legacy/etc., but the majority of the potential future DI prospects aren't going to the private schools so they can spend a little more time helping their community, improving their ACT score or any of the many other reasons we could all list by reading one of the private school brochures. They are going for ATHLETIC purposes.

[shakinthefat]

Actually I would say that I know 8-10 at different schools and more than half are there for sports, not all the other things that the brochure talks about. Though I'll not say they were illegally "recruited", they were coerced by people "associated" with the athletic programs.

 

Though not illegal... One parent returning to MS games with their freshman son, making certain to speak to all the parents of the "better" players. Again, not illegal on the surface, but it is "recruiting". Kind of like the UT hostesses?? That was under investigation because they were an "extension" of the university. Now is that apples to apples, probably not, but it is recruiting! Unless we are there we don't know if the coach, AD, school official had any input.

 

We all know that there are some things that go on in the "gray" area that make some coaches/schools better than others at getting athletes. Now that is not to say that some players don't go for the exposure, as they certainly do.

 

I fully believe it happens and that is fine by me. That's why there is another division. What I don't like is that everyone treats it as taboo and acts like it doesn't happen, ANYWHERE. Sure there are people that go for the other things in the "brochure" and some because it is a family tradition/legacy/etc., but the majority of the potential future DI prospects aren't going to the private schools so they can spend a little more time helping their community, improving their ACT score or any of the many other reasons we could all list by reading one of the private school brochures. They are going for ATHLETIC purposes.

 

So I guess you could say that all students are recruited to private schools, not just the athletes.

Most private school students attend private school for a "Purpose".

[Kevin38]

DII schools are a "business" and they all recruit, in one form or another. It is what it is. Why people bash it, I don't know. Perhaps because their kid wasn't "recruited". There is a separate division for these schools and the publics putting them on the schedule know the scenario and potential risk.

 

I don't quite understand why someone tries to make a big deal of "one" school doing it. It seems like this is at least an annual discussion.

 

Point being... if you are a public school and don't like what the DII schools are doing, doing play them. If you are a DII school, your success depends on getting better kids.

 

As long as play their post season in a league (DII)where the other schools recruit (which they do), then I could care less.....

 

they dont recruit, they just ask really really nicely if they would like to play football at a school like this one.

 

LMAO.....classic