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CAK vs. Alcoa round 2


BigG
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You are absolutely right. It is a parent's decision, and many parents make the decision to hold their sons (in particular) back a year to give them an advantage in athletics. If you haven't heard this before, then you haven't been listening.

 

My anecdotal observation suggests that this is far more prevalent in private than in public schools, though it is not exclusive to the privates. This is supported by the fact that many private schools have a birthday cutoff that is months earlier than their public counterparts, your 11 year olds notwithstanding. Do you seriously dispute that your typical 19 year old will have a maturity advantage over your typical 17 year old?

Oh, I don't dispute that there is an advantage of maturity in physical, emotional, and mental status.

 

I dispute that it is a public private problem.

 

I would be curious to know what the actual statistic is.

 

Usually, the private grumblings don't start for another week or two.

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You are absolutely right. It is a parent's decision, and many parents make the decision to hold their sons (in particular) back a year to give them an advantage in athletics. If you haven't heard this before, then you haven't been listening.

 

My anecdotal observation suggests that this is far more prevalent in private than in public schools, though it is not exclusive to the privates. This is supported by the fact that many private schools have a birthday cutoff that is months earlier than their public counterparts, your 11 year olds notwithstanding. Do you seriously dispute that your typical 19 year old will have a maturity advantage over your typical 17 year old?

 

Because so many parents know that their kindergartners are going to be stud soccer or football players at the tender age of 4 or 5? Maybe the dumbest argument I've heard. If anything, children are being enrolled in school later because they are not ready to sit in a classroom from 8 AM to 3 PM everyday at 4 years old. This is why many parents opt for a daycare, pre-kindergarten, or a half day kindergarten class. I have no idea how old the freshman from Alcoa is and I could only take an educated guess at how old CAK's freshman is. I know that I am frequently impressed with ours (CAK) and I am impressed that Coach Corley would trust a freshman to shoot 7th in line, which is a compliment to say the least. This is a dumb argument.

Edited by CoachLogan74
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Just from the few Freshman that I know on CAK, they are age and grade appropriate on the competitive side. They have also been in that situation before as u-13s, losing the state final in pks two years ago. Still never caught the name of the 7th shooter for CAK, so I cannot be sure of that player.

 

I did like the creative argument though. After all the years of hearing the public/private discussion, this was the first time I heard that one.

 

Good luck to both teams this week. It's great Freshman are getting that kind of opportunity and should speak volumes about both programs moving forward.

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the only similar argument I have heard is that public school parents/coaches (especially basketball/football) have kids repeat grades in middle school to help them gain a competitive advantage - after all, it's free. Maybe public school parents just don't care as much about soccer as other sports - unless they are at AAA schools...or Alcoa.

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I did like the creative argument though. After all the years of hearing the public/private discussion, this was the first time I heard that one.

 

 

 

I will take creative over dumb any day.

 

I have looked for data to support my point and I cannot find hard numbers. I found only general statements to the effect that "redshirting kindergarteners" (google the term) seems to be more common among private school students because more affluent parents who send their kids to private school can more easily afford to keep them home and out of school for an extra year. These articles, however, were based on observation and interviews and were not supported by hard evidence. If middle school students are repeating grades to get the same advantage in other sports, then that undermines my opinion that the practice is more prevalent in private schools, but doesn't undermine the argument that the practice tends to give older players an advantage. Or that it also tends to give teams with older players an advantage.

 

With respect to CAK, I can only say that I know of two sophomores at CAK who are the same age or even older (by a couple of months) than their club teammates who are juniors at other area schools including Alcoa, Hardin Valley, and West. All of the students to whom I am referring were born within a four or five month period in the same year. Am I saying that the parents of the sophomore players held them back so they would get a competitive advantage in soccer? No. Read my post. I never said that and I have no reason to believe it.

 

Am I saying that CAK will have an advantage over Alcoa and other schools when these sophmores are 19 year old seniors? Absolutely. Reading Big G's post, it seems even he would agree with this -- at risk of being called dumb (twice) by Coach Logan -- but only if I could show that the seniors at the other schools were not also 19. Fair enough. I cannot show it, so both Coach Logan and Big G can go on believing that it is not the case. And they may be right.

 

The two A-AA public school teams I am most familiar with are in middle Tennessee. Both of these schools have large junior classes. Neither has a single junior who will turn 19 before the end of his senior year. One has several juniors who will not turn 18 until after they graduate. Are they at a disadvantage playing 19 year olds when they are 17? Are their schools at a disadvantage because their parents started them on schedule rather than holding them back a year? I think they are so I will stick to my guns, dumb or creative though they may be.

 

I also never intended to suggest that any age advantage that may exist is the only reason that the private schools have an advantage in soccer. The more obvious reason is that soccer is a sport for the upper middle class, which (in urban areas) is the same group that sends their kids to private schools. I was merely suggesting another factor that I believe may differentiate the publics from the privates. EOM

Edited by zizoufan
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I respect the fact that you tried to find hard evidence.

 

I do think it is an advantage if it is the case (of being older as seniors).

 

I just don't think it is a private school advantage.

 

There ARE discrepancies between publics and privates in soccer. I just don't think this is one of them.

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I am probably too simple about this. I just think these things happen. We have one on our team that by age could have graduated this year, but the parents started him at a different time. He will be one of the oldest if not the oldest on the team next year. On the other hand, my son will be the youngest Sr. on the team. We chose to start him early instead of waiting another year. He is still 6ft tall and weight 188. I think these things just happen based on what parents decide. It is an interesting argument but I just don't think it really has more impact in private schools then it does public ones. It just may be more noticeable in a smaller school. Just my opinion.

 

 

AlcoaDad

 

:motorbike:

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Am I saying that CAK will have an advantage over Alcoa and other schools when these sophmores are 19 year old seniors? Absolutely. Reading Big G's post, it seems even he would agree with this -- at risk of being called dumb (twice) by Coach Logan -- but only if I could show that the seniors at the other schools were not also 19. Fair enough. I cannot show it, so both Coach Logan and Big G can go on believing that it is not the case. And they may be right.

 

My apologies sir,

My intentions were never to call you dumb. I have never heard anyone even hint to the argument that you presented and, if you were standing in my shoes and have heard every argument from advantages in zoning to facilities to resources, you would be a little cheesed off by the insinuation that parents are holding their children back in grades to have a competitive advantage in sports. Truth be told, I can think of one instance where a player stayed in high school for five years to be more competitive. It didn't help because he never had the skills to begin with. Yes, do we have players that are older than some of their higher grade teammates? Sure. But what about those kids that we have that are 13 year old freshmen and therefore 17 year old seniors? Not very fair to group a whole group of student athletes by a couple of the peers, who I'm sure if you took the percentage of students at a private school who are older than average and compared that percentage to their public school counterparts, I'm sure you would find it similar. That's just how things go. Again zizoufan, I'm sorry that you felt I was calling you dumb.

Edited by CoachLogan74
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