State Tournament Officiating

[texas23]

really mature smoke sniffer. If I didnt know better, I'd say you were on here taking up for your brother. Its just part of a tough but pretty well paying job. Not everyone is going to like the officiating. However, some of the calls and assigned officials was very questionable. hopefully there will be a higher level of standards or protocol when it comes to who is officiating state tournament matches and the relationships between refs, coaches and parents. I think that is all most of the people on here are saying.

Nb,,,i wonder where you think these refs will come from if it is not from the current wrestling communities? From some place where wrestling is has no teams?

[neylandbryant]

Nb,,,i wonder where you think these refs will come from if it is not from the current wrestling communities? From some place where wrestling is has no teams?

Big Tex, I was hoping you would come out and play. No I am saying, for example, that a region 6 ref should not be officiating a match between a region 6 kid and a region 3 kid. Get a ref from region 8, 4, 2,1..hopefully you get the point. Obviously this would prevent the appearance of any favoritism.

[texas23]

Big Tex, I was hoping you would come out and play. No I am saying, for example, that a region 6 ref should not be officiating a match between a region 6 kid and a region 3 kid. Get a ref from region 8, 4, 2,1..hopefully you get the point. Obviously this would prevent the appearance of any favoritism.

 

 

is it just the appearance you are worried about or is there really some home cooking going on?

[neylandbryant]

truthfully without knowing the ref personally its only speculation, but there were some no calls on takedowns and some really fast 3pt near falls awarded and the parents around me kept pointing out that the refs were from the same town as the kid who received the favorable calls. Since we were on the private school side and it was mostly public school refs, I think it was a pretty honest assessment. one ref awarded 3 near fall when there was less than 3 seconds left in the period when the kid turned him. Made the difference in the match as the kid, now down 5 instead of 2 had to change the strategy for the 3rd. BTW you'd been proud of bear cats son, he looked great out there against a tough kid.

[2blLeg]

Actually, that is what everyone was hoping you would do.

 

ha ha ha, good one.

 

First, I'm not a Fr Ryan fan, but I will tell you, the kid was screwed, by the ref.

 

Second, I'm free to say it, so deal with it. I hate that people like you get on here and complain about people stating their feelings about the refs, when we all know there is a problem

[ghouse]

What the heck was that stalling call on Moseley about? Stalling on a shot?? All I saw Cole do was move and shoot, I don't think the McCallie kid ever did either, and he gets hit with stalling after his third consecutive shot? Unbelievable

 

Certainly a very tough call that I was shocked to see made. That said, it is an allowable call if the official feels that the wrestler shooting is not attempting to score but is rather just trying to get to the legs and create stalemates. Definitely something I have only seem called twice in my career and both times people were pretty shocked by the call. It is important to keep in mind that in order to be called for stalling the official must simply feel the wrestler isn't attempting to score. Of course I am not sure I would have ever had the guts to make that call in the state finals but that is just one of many reasons I am not an official.

[ghouse]

There are a couple of calls that I see, not just in TN, where I often wonder what the officials are thinking or if they understand the rules.

 

Two examples that spring to mind:

 

1) Application of legs by the top wrestler once the bottom wrestler has reached his feet. Perhaps I am wrong and the rule has changed (haven't checked in a couple years) but I believe that is stalling by rule.

 

2) The stalling call on the top man for not returning the bottom wrestler to the mat. If I am not mistaken the top wrestler is not required to return the bottom man to the mat. The top man is required to attempt to return the bottom man. I see lots of times where the top man is called for stalling when it certainly appears to me that the top man is working. Often makes me wonder if most of the officials understand this small, yet very important bit of wording. It amazes me that I so rarely see coaches question this because I believe that if they led the conversation with the official off by asking whether the official felt their wrestler was working to score then they might have some success getting the calls changed.

 

There are several other things I would love to talk with some of the officials about but those are what come to mind in my post-state tournament stupor.

[sweeptheleg]

There are a couple of calls that I see, not just in TN, where I often wonder what the officials are thinking or if they understand the rules.

 

Two examples that spring to mind:

 

1) Application of legs by the top wrestler once the bottom wrestler has reached his feet. Perhaps I am wrong and the rule has changed (haven't checked in a couple years) but I believe that is stalling by rule.

 

2) The stalling call on the top man for not returning the bottom wrestler to the mat. If I am not mistaken the top wrestler is not required to return the bottom man to the mat. The top man is required to attempt to return the bottom man. I see lots of times where the top man is called for stalling when it certainly appears to me that the top man is working. Often makes me wonder if most of the officials understand this small, yet very important bit of wording. It amazes me that I so rarely see coaches question this because I believe that if they led the conversation with the official off by asking whether the official felt their wrestler was working to score then they might have some success getting the calls changed.

 

There are several other things I would love to talk with some of the officials about but those are what come to mind in my post-state tournament stupor.

 

In response to ghouse's post above.

 

1) I agree completely on this. Also on that subject I witnessed this weekend too many wrestlers to even count apply legs on top and flatten their opponent out. They would sit there and do nothing other than keep their opponents face buried in the mat and look up at the ref and gesture that the bottom man is stalling. Its like som e of our refs have never wrestled before and are being tricked. Its my understanding that the top man has to come off the hips and try to turn his opponent. I know there is a fine line and its a judgement but if the top man gets both legs in and just sits there with no progress made and he doesnt attempt anything else then in my opionion its stalling on the top man. We dont allow wrestlers to ride a tight waist ankle the whole period so why do we allow them to do it with legs?

 

2) This is also a very good point. Its such a problem that now a lot of bottom wrestlers are standing up, spreading their legs wide and holding their hands in the sky looking for a stall call and they get it in a matter of seconds. There was a case like that tonight in the finals. Im not sure which match but it was a horrible call. refs need to see the other guy is just trying to get a stalling call and in fact he is not even trying to score himself.

 

3) the third one that chaps my hide is when a kid is clearly playing to the ref trying to get a stalling call and he pushes a kid out of bounds. This also happened tonight. One wrestler got an underhook and ran his opponent all the way across the mat. he was not trying to score, he was simply pushing his opponent out of bounds. There is a difference in backing up and someone running you out of bounds. This is not freestyle.

 

We are making our matches extremley boring by allowing this stuff. Now a kid can get a takedown, push and shove and not attempt another move the rest of the match and win. We are reinforcing kids becoming masters of acting like they are wrestling but actually doing nothing.

 

As far as Mosleys match, I thought it was a horrific call. I wanted a while to think about it before posting. Now that I am calm I can say in all fairness that was a horrible call that probably cost a young man a state championship.

[Freestyle4life]

Just another example of a jackass ref trying to be in the spotlight. Worst call I've ever seen. How many shots did the McCallie wrestler take throughout the whole match. Pathetic

Edited February 19, 2012 by Freestyle4life

[epi4u]

I wish they would incorporate riding time into the TSSAA rules. Getting the rules closer to the NCAA rules would help prepare our wrestlers for the next step.

[grapplertom]

Just because a wrestler is moving and shooting does not mean he is not stalling. To many fans in the stands, and people on this blog, think that because a wrestler is moving or shooting he is not stalling. The Mosley call was ballsy, but I applaud him for making it. It is about time a ref made the correct call. Mosley had the initial movement but never a follow up. He shot and then just held on to not get scored upon. He never followed up the shot with an attempt to score. He did this at least 5 times. As for taking away a state championship from Mosley, what about his opponent? By not making the correct call, you where taking away the state championship from him. It was tied after the call, Mosley still had a chance to win.

[grapplertom]

http://www.owoa.org/pdf%20files/2008StateClinic/2008-2009%20Wrestling%20Stalling%20NFHS%20-%20Dick%20Loewenstine.pdf

Ok I finally found the NFHS guidance on calling stalling that I had remembered reading some time ago. Please check out page 14 of the brief.