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State Tournament Officiating


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As for taking away a state championship from Mosley, what about his opponent? By not making the correct call, you where taking away the state championship from him. It was tied after the call, Mosley still had a chance to win.

 

 

What about HIS opponent? Are we talking about the same match? Moseley did nothing put push this kid the entire time. I never saw his opponent make one offensive move. Moseley is up 3-2 with 20 seconds or so left, takes a shot and gets hit for stalling. Give me a break. One of the worst calls I have seen in my life and this ref should be ashamed.

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What about HIS opponent? Are we talking about the same match? Moseley did nothing put push this kid the entire time. I never saw his opponent make one offensive move. Moseley is up 3-2 with 20 seconds or so left, takes a shot and gets hit for stalling. Give me a break. One of the worst calls I have seen in my life and this ref should be ashamed.

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What about HIS opponent? Are we talking about the same match? Moseley did nothing put push this kid the entire time. I never saw his opponent make one offensive move. Moseley is up 3-2 with 20 seconds or so left, takes a shot and gets hit for stalling. Give me a break. One of the worst calls I have seen in my life and this ref should be ashamed.

I believe I saw one offensive move by the McCallie wrestler. The Ryan wrestler taking all the shots got hit for stalling. The other wrestler no offense and got rewarded.

 

One of the worst calls I have ever seen. Many in the Baylor crowd agreed. Hope this ref can sleep well. STALL and get rewarded. Great message you are sending. Why was McCallie not hit with stalling for not attempting anything?

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I don't know what the official shot count was but I was told that it was something like 14-1 in favor of the FR wrestler. Just because something is in the rulebook does not mean that it was the correct call to make at that time in the match. If the FR wrestler was stalling by shooting and not improving his position on shot number 14 and less than 10 seconds in the third period, then why was he not stalling on shot number 8,10, 12,etc... IMO, this is a prime example of misapplication of a rule! Like one former NCAA official and coach said; if the official had been doing his job he would have started hitting the McCallie wrestler with stalling early and often in the match due to his blocking and we wouldn't be having this discussion. Something to remember is that if people have to tell the official that it was a gutsy, ballsy, tough, etc... but good call it more than likely should have been a no call. With all of this being said, I still feel that this is one of the better officials in Tennessee that just had a very bad match. Contrary to popular belief officials do have poor outings but the unwritten rule is that they stick together and never admit that they made a mistake. The FR wrestler was a 1X State Champion and 4X State Finalist which places him in very elite company. While some may not like it this should be a life lesson for the FR wrestler that life is not fair and you must move on to other goals in your life. Look for this same official to bounce back in due time from a very bad match as one of the best officials in Tennessee.

Edited by cbg
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Other than a few unusual staling calls and failures to get in position for a few pins,,,, good officiating in this year's Big Dance!!

 

One suggestion worthy of consideration may be for assigned refs to be listed along with bout numbers so coaches and wrestlers may adjust to the subjectivity and even styles that goes into making calls. It is my belief that calls should be predictable nearly 100% of the time. There is always judgement calls by individuals that will play a part.

 

The refs should almost be invisible IMO.

 

Some allow the wrestlers to wrestle while some likes to take authority on the mat and seems to play some part in the eventual outcome. It may not be intentional at all, but the nature of that individual to be a hands on person.

 

A match can go uninterrupted, by refs whistles or coaches' trips to the score table many times, if proper adjustments are made in advance. e.g., It is helpful to know if a ref waits the entire 2 seconds for a pin or calls it more like freestyle. Does a ref mind an aggressive, physical wrestler or will that lead to points? As discussed on this particular thread regarding a hard working and talented Moseley, It's also good know the usual trends of stalling calls, as they will vary from ref to another.

 

Good thing the same approach wasn't used for the persistence shown by Ward in the great Marchetti match up,,, you never know how things may have come out?!?!

 

Consistency is what matters as the ol great one George Farr used to tell me asa young ref myself.

 

ON the Positive for this Great tournament at the Cow Palace...

 

Never the less,,Congrats to the Ward family for their amazing 138 pounder and his (3rd period/ot) dominance in the entire state this year!!

 

Congrats to the Mullins Family for another generation of greats wrestling and to BCB and finally getting that Gold!!!

 

Congrats to Zack and his fifth!! btw,,, not Bo Watson"s nephew as i once believed. Great kid!!

 

Oh, congrats to the Campbell family for having NOT ONE, but Two, State Champs in their household this year and Campbell's 4th!!!

 

The Soms

 

got the t-shirt this year with 25, not 20!!!!!!! LeGrand got me pumped up!!!!!

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ha ha ha, good one.

 

First, I'm not a Fr Ryan fan, but I will tell you, the kid was screwed, by the ref.

 

Second, I'm free to say it, so deal with it. I hate that people like you get on here and complain about people stating their feelings about the refs, when we all know there is a problem

 

 

Certainly a very tough call that I was shocked to see made. That said, it is an allowable call if the official feels that the wrestler shooting is not attempting to score but is rather just trying to get to the legs and create stalemates. Definitely something I have only seem called twice in my career and both times people were pretty shocked by the call. It is important to keep in mind that in order to be called for stalling the official must simply feel the wrestler isn't attempting to score. Of course I am not sure I would have ever had the guts to make that call in the state finals but that is just one of many reasons I am not an official.

 

 

Just another example of a jackass ref trying to be in the spotlight. Worst call I've ever seen. How many shots did the McCallie wrestler take throughout the whole match. Pathetic

 

 

What about HIS opponent? Are we talking about the same match? Moseley did nothing put push this kid the entire time. I never saw his opponent make one offensive move. Moseley is up 3-2 with 20 seconds or so left, takes a shot and gets hit for stalling. Give me a break. One of the worst calls I have seen in my life and this ref should be ashamed.

 

 

I believe I saw one offensive move by the McCallie wrestler. The Ryan wrestler taking all the shots got hit for stalling. The other wrestler no offense and got rewarded.

 

One of the worst calls I have ever seen. Many in the Baylor crowd agreed. Hope this ref can sleep well. STALL and get rewarded. Great message you are sending. Why was McCallie not hit with stalling for not attempting anything?

 

 

I don't know what the official shot count was but I was told that it was something like 14-1 in favor of the FR wrestler. Just because something is in the rulebook does not mean that it was the correct call to make at that time in the match. If the FR wrestler was stalling by shooting and not improving his position on shot number 14 and less than 10 seconds in the third period, then why was he not stalling on shot number 8,10, 12,etc... IMO, this is a prime example of misapplication of a rule! Like one former NCAA official and coach said; if the official had been doing his job he would have started hitting the McCallie wrestler with stalling early and often in the match due to his blocking and we wouldn't be having this discussion. Something to remember is that if people have to tell the official that it was a gutsy, ballsy, tough, etc... but good call it more than likely should have been a no call. With all of this being said, I still feel that this is one of the better officials in Tennessee that just had a very bad match. Contrary to popular belief officials do have poor outings but the unwritten rule is that they stick together and never admit that they made a mistake. The FR wrestler was a 1X State Champion and 4X State Finalist which places him in very elite company. While some may not like it this should be a life lesson for the FR wrestler that life is not fair and you must move on to other goals in your life. Look for this same official to bounce back in due time from a very bad match as one of the best officials in Tennessee.

 

You're wrong.

 

You are ALL WRONG.

 

It is getting so that when so many many on coacht are headed one direction, you should question that direction.

 

 

The official made exactly the correct call.

 

Officials call rules book by the letter but also by the spirit. Along with the Rules Book, we are also given the Case Book to help give support to the spirit of the Rules Book. Some of you probably never heard of it, I would wager none of you have read it.

 

NFHS CASEBOOK, 2011-2012. page 84, Section 6, paragraph 4d:

 

"Grasping one leg and holding it without a follow through for a take down."

 

 

This describes what occurred the last 20 or so seconds of the match in question. I called this exact situation during the Father Ryan tournament this year. While watching this last night, I KNEW this was going to be called. The official who was on the mat is too good of an official not to make this call.

 

Now, would you suggest given the heightened level of this tournament, the finals of the State tournament, the official should swallow his whistle as you see in that other winter sport so often?

 

And what about the other kid? If you would suggest the official swallow his whistle for the one kid, are you not screwin' the other kid?

 

Even after the call, BOTH wrestlers had the opportunity to win the match. Yes?

 

 

Excellent call, by an excellent official.

 

 

The only shame in our sport someone has to lose after such a epic 6.5 minute battle.

 

 

This argument is settled.

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What about HIS opponent? Are we talking about the same match? Moseley did nothing put push this kid the entire time. I never saw his opponent make one offensive move. Moseley is up 3-2 with 20 seconds or so left, takes a shot and gets hit for stalling. Give me a break. One of the worst calls I have seen in my life and this ref should be ashamed.

 

THE BEST CALL OF THE TOURNAMENT! BY ONE THE THE HIGHEST RATE REF IN THE STATE, IF NOT THE HIGHEST. THE WRESTLER WAS SHOOTING JUST TO HOLD THE LEG AND NOT IMPROVE OR SCORE. COACH WAS WARNED OF SUCH ACTS THAT THE SAME WRESTLER DID IN MANY PRIOR MATCHES.

GREAT CALL! AND I AM NOT A FAN OF EITHER TEAM

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Just because a wrestler is moving and shooting does not mean he is not stalling. To many fans in the stands, and people on this blog, think that because a wrestler is moving or shooting he is not stalling. The Mosley call was ballsy, but I applaud him for making it. It is about time a ref made the correct call. Mosley had the initial movement but never a follow up. He shot and then just held on to not get scored upon. He never followed up the shot with an attempt to score. He did this at least 5 times. As for taking away a state championship from Mosley, what about his opponent? By not making the correct call, you where taking away the state championship from him. It was tied after the call, Mosley still had a chance to win.

 

It's the same position they were in ALL match, and every single time before it was called a stalemate. WHY was it called stalling this time? Please, bad call and you shouldn't be "balsy" as a ref, you should call it straight down the middle.

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You're wrong.

 

You are ALL WRONG.

 

It is getting so that when so many many on coacht are headed one direction, you should question that direction.

 

 

The official made exactly the correct call.

 

Officials call rules book by the letter but also by the spirit. Along with the Rules Book, we are also given the Case Book to help give support to the spirit of the Rules Book. Some of you probably never heard of it, I would wager none of you have read it.

 

NFHS CASEBOOK, 2011-2012. page 84, Section 6, paragraph 4d:

 

"Grasping one leg and holding it without a follow through for a take down."

 

 

This describes what occurred the last 20 or so seconds of the match in question. I called this exact situation during the Father Ryan tournament this year. While watching this last night, I KNEW this was going to be called. The official who was on the mat is too good of an official not to make this call.

 

Now, would you suggest given the heightened level of this tournament, the finals of the State tournament, the official should swallow his whistle as you see in that other winter sport so often?

 

And what about the other kid? If you would suggest the official swallow his whistle for the one kid, are you not screwin' the other kid?

 

Even after the call, BOTH wrestlers had the opportunity to win the match. Yes?

 

 

Excellent call, by an excellent official.

 

 

The only shame in our sport someone has to lose after such a epic 6.5 minute battle.

 

 

This argument is settled.

YOU are wrong. Couple of things. If the McCallie wrestler had shot 3 times in the last 40 sec and the FR wrestler had sprawled and held the ankle, do you not think the FR wrestler would be hit with stalling? And excellent official? That's not what I heard from 2 of a group of 3 officials after the match. "He always injects himself into the match if possible" "Doesn't surprise me at all that he would make that call, in a close match he wants to be seen" "Unbelievable" "a shame" "he got what he wanted" and this from fellow officials! 9 seconds left. Then the FR wrestler shoots in ot and again Mc sprawls. I shot and maybe 15 front headlocks from McCallie. I'm sure they are both great kids and can handle the decision, but ballsy isn't the term I would use for that call. And I didn't think I'd see a worse call than Bellet's at the 138 semi's, but there you go.

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It's the same position they were in ALL match, and every single time before it was called a stalemate. WHY was it called stalling this time? Please, bad call and you shouldn't be "balsy" as a ref, you should call it straight down the middle.

 

At some point in time, that stalemate, in that particular situation is going to be stalling. If I am that wrestler, I am not going to allow an official to determine that point in time, but no doubt he was running that risk and by the book and spirit of the book put himself in that danger. Had the wrestlers been in reverse roles, I have every belief that official would make the same call. It was the purest case of only green and red I have seen.

 

Again, if he doesnt make the call, does the opposition not have the same case that you offer? A coach can approach the table with a violation of a rule to have a call overturned. Had the FR coach approached the table (as is his right), who stood on firmer ground? (I mentioned I had made that call in last years Ryan invitational. What I didnt mention is I was called on the carpet by a coach who happened to have that knowledge of the Case Book three years before. I held my call, his kid lost. I looked it up after the tournament and personally went to that coach and apologized. I was sick. I felt the same as you and most on this board; wrestler A was shooting, but he was doing nothing with it. He was stalling and I blew it).

 

Sometimes calling a stalemate indicates there is no action, meaning neither can improve. There's a clue. More often than not, a stalemate is a clue. Many repeated actions are viewed as stalling, and should be.

 

You make it appear through your posts the official took something away from one of the kids, but that is not even the spirit of wrestling. In our sport you go after it and leave no doubt. If you leave the possibility for doubt, you allow subjectivity to defeat you.

 

But in this case, there was no subjectivity. This is Rules Book/Case Book, black and white.

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