2012 pre-season discussion, Transfers, Coaching changes and Rumors

[Sommers]

sounds to me like those young wrestlers at hickson that became a feast for Baylor were pretty darn smart. No way they do not go to Baylor after seeing their future.....

 

and let us hope all new coaches get a full season under their belt and everything goes really, really smooth.

 

Again, ask Pat Murphy or Tom Popp if they're hurtin?!? Probably no tuition breaks for them. Kids will certainly benefit!

[texas23]

Again, ask Pat Murphy or Tom Popp if they're hurtin?!? Probably no tuition breaks for them. Kids will certainly benefit!

 

If these two fine hicksonites are doing well, that is good, but my comment was for the ones that did not stay at hickson. They probably saw their future and went forth. Why does this simple concept need to be explained?

[trublu2]

Thought I might jump in here and give my thoughts... Ultimately it's the kids and their parent's decision to send them to school wherever that may be. I am as blue as it gets, but i will say I don't think Ben Nelson is out recruiting any of these kids to come to Baylor. If any "recruiting" is being done, it is by wrestlers, wrestlers parents, and/or alumni. Is that ok? sure why not. With that being said, there is NO DOUBT in my mind Tate Robinson should have to sit out a year. I don't care if the kid moved, when you get kicked out of a school and transfer to another school in the same division (d2) you should have to sit out a year, no questions asked. Moving cities should have no affect if the schools are competing for the same championship title.

 

Examples) Houston "I'll always bleed trublu" Clements left for the darkside ... kid sat out a year. That's how it should be, and it is no different for Robinson. CBHS and Baylor are in the same DIVISION FOR PETE'S SAKE!

 

Example2) Blaike Henry left McCallie for Soddy Daisy, TJ Satterfields left McCallie for Blount County, both were immediately eligible because they were transferring to a school in a different division.

 

Should Baylor have to compete in a prep only league? Not at all. From a McCallie standpoint, I would never want to see that as it would take away from the excitement every winter. I doubt father ryan, or any of the d2 schools would really want that either.Really though, what does ryan have to be mad about anyways, they whip those red ba$tar**'s every year anyways.

Just an old farts thoughts! hope i havent put you all to sleep.

 

GO BLU!

[nashwrestling]

Thought I might jump in here and give my thoughts... Ultimately it's the kids and their parent's decision to send them to school wherever that may be. I am as blue as it gets, but i will say I don't think Ben Nelson is out recruiting any of these kids to come to Baylor. If any "recruiting" is being done, it is by wrestlers, wrestlers parents, and/or alumni. Is that ok? sure why not. With that being said, there is NO DOUBT in my mind Tate Robinson should have to sit out a year. I don't care if the kid moved, when you get kicked out of a school and transfer to another school in the same division (d2) you should have to sit out a year, no questions asked. Moving cities should have no affect if the schools are competing for the same championship title.

 

Examples) Houston "I'll always bleed trublu" Clements left for the darkside ... kid sat out a year. That's how it should be, and it is no different for Robinson. CBHS and Baylor are in the same DIVISION FOR PETE'S SAKE!

 

Example2) Blaike Henry left McCallie for Soddy Daisy, TJ Satterfields left McCallie for Blount County, both were immediately eligible because they were transferring to a school in a different division.

 

Should Baylor have to compete in a prep only league? Not at all. From a McCallie standpoint, I would never want to see that as it would take away from the excitement every winter. I doubt father ryan, or any of the d2 schools would really want that either.Really though, what does ryan have to be mad about anyways, they whip those red ba$tar**'s every year anyways.

Just an old farts thoughts! hope i havent put you all to sleep.

 

GO BLU!

 

Good points ^ Can I get an amen?!?!

[Sommers]

 

 

Good points ^ Can I get an amen?!?!

Amen, my ol Ryan/Nash Catholic Booster! Edited August 30, 2012 by Sommers

[taketop]

I agree.

 

Seems to me that no matter where a person ends up wrestling, they are still on the mat against an individual. The argument is about team scores. It is truly interesting that a school district or school takes a position of ownership of a student, based on their talent or precieved talent in sports. So this is about schools and trophy cases, not about student athletes.

 

Really? This has nothing to do with ownership. It has everything to do with a level playing field. If it is truly mono e mono, why have weight classes? Let the "best" man win.

 

Your lack of insight into high school athletics is amazing. The only trophy cases it is about are the ones that are recruiting. Your argument is backwards. The recruited kids aren't there because of good looks. Your "Ownership" argument is a cop out to allow the bourgeois to play by different rules than everyone else. Why should a larger bank account allow one group to have an unfair advantage? I don't care if they recruit or not but don't act like it doesn't happen or that it is not a HUGE advantage.

[PUMMELKING]

oldblazedad,

After reading your post I phoned Jim Simpson to see how many of the Father Ryan wrestlers were Catholic. He informed me that during the 2011-12 season only one (1) wrestler that participated in the state tournament was not Catholic. He also told me that to the best of his knowledge only one (1) wrestler (Mike Hooker a transfer who's father & mother were Father Ryan graduates) did not participate in the Nashville Catholic Wrestling program. It seems as if the Irish have built their program through the Nashville Catholic middle school program.

Is the Catholic requirement only for the family to drink wine instead of beer...lol

[mocs2011]

 

 

Really? This has nothing to do with ownership. It has everything to do with a level playing field. If it is truly mono e mono, why have weight classes? Let the "best" man win.

 

Your lack of insight into high school athletics is amazing. The only trophy cases it is about are the ones that are recruiting. Your argument is backwards. The recruited kids aren't there because of good looks. Your "Ownership" argument is a cop out to allow the bourgeois to play by different rules than everyone else. Why should a larger bank account allow one group to have an unfair advantage? I don't care if they recruit or not but don't act like it doesn't happen or that it is not a HUGE advantage.

 

 

I will give an "Amen" to the above. texas23, plenty of schools are complaining. Actually a proposal last year was approved in every region but one to change the rule and require students transferring to a boarding school to be ineligible for a year just like they transferred to Soddy, Cleveland, Science Hill, MBA or any other school unless their parents moved. This would help level the playing field between the boarding prep schools and discourage them from recruiting and giving funds to last years public or private school state champions. Bradley did not wrestle these guys for years because they did not want their wrestlers stolen, this rule makes it less likely, would actually encourage competition and reduce the need for the prep boarding schools to totally leave, though its probably just a matter of time before that happens anyway. Trublu2--things are going to change, but the TN state wrestling tournament will likely always continue to be exciting for wrestling fans! Also you mentioned that something about not having to sit out due to changing divisions. I checked the handbook last night and could not find anything like that.

[texas23]

Really? This has nothing to do with ownership. It has everything to do with a level playing field. If it is truly mono e mono, why have weight classes? Let the "best" man win.

 

Your lack of insight into high school athletics is amazing. The only trophy cases it is about are the ones that are recruiting. Your argument is backwards. The recruited kids aren't there because of good looks. Your "Ownership" argument is a cop out to allow the bourgeois to play by different rules than everyone else. Why should a larger bank account allow one group to have an unfair advantage? I don't care if they recruit or not but don't act like it doesn't happen or that it is not a HUGE advantage.

 

I guess you disagree. My point is the level playing field is about the schools, not the students. Hickson cannot win because the people in that section of town decided they want to attend a private school. Hickson gets wound up that those students rightfully belong to them. They may even argue that the students were in their kids club and they put in all this effort, only to see the rewards going to a private school that does not develop talent, only steals it. The ownership comments come from that mind set. Schools do not own the students, they are not property.

 

As far as your comment regarding insight, you may be right, but I know what I know and my opinion is what it is.

[brun987]

Transfers…. really transfers? I have enjoyed some of the chatter on this subject but I want to bring up a different school of thought(which I’m sure some of you will not understand). How many of the so called true non transfers really exist? How many coaches are actually alums of their wrestling school? Hmmm let’s see here… Bradley, Soddy, Did Simpson go to Farther Ryan(no offense meant I really do not know)? Please boys and girls help me out here if I missed a coach. Truth is more people involved in this have transferred from their roots than planted. Heck should we say Heath Eslinger should be the Bradley coach? How dare you coach UTC Heath LOL… Onto the “club coaches and supporters†which club coach/supporter is an alum and true root planter? I can think of one or two from my home town, so again boys and girls help me out here if you can. The point I’m trying to make is quit complaining about this is unfair and that is unfair! It’s very simple… out work the others and you will find success!

 

 

 

I’ll leave you with this, there is a ton of hard work that goes into this sport, these young men should be complemented and supported even more, for the true sacrifice it takes to become a wrestler!

 

 

 

Yours in Sport

 

Mitchell Brunner

[YOUTHCOACH16]

There is a HUGE misconception that these wrestlers are being recruited and given "full rides". I know it doesnt matter what myself or anyone else says we cant change public perception. I will state the facts and you can believe them or not. Baylor does not recruit anyone. Period. All of the wrestlers that came from other programs left their previous programs and then contacted Baylor. Of all the kids listed in previous posts half of them are paying full tuition. The ones that arent paying full tuition are paying a substantial amount that their parents have to sacrifice in order to give their kids this opportunity. There isnt one single kid on a "free ride" or even close to it. Baylor isnt a win at all cost type of program no matter what you may think. There are many kids who will win the public school state this year and in up coming years that applied to Baylor and were not accepted or couldnt afford it even with financial aide. I will not name any kids but there are several current wrestlers from Chattanooga, Knoxville and Nashville that applied after being enrolled in other high schools that were not accpeted or their parents couldnt swing the costs. Look at the drop off from the feeder youth team and the middle school team and that should prove that Baylor isnt just taking kids who can wrestle. I get asked all the time by other coaches where my red raider club kids go and why they arent on the middle school team. The answer is they apply but dont get accepted or cant afford it. The coaches always look at me funny and ask why Baylor doesnt give them scholarships and I have to explain that due to popular belief it doesnt really work that way. These kids work their butts off not only in the wrestling room but in the class room and its belittling their efforts to just assume they win because they are at Baylor. They deal with a grueling wrestling schedule, 3 hours a day of homework and studying outside the classroom and a pretty intense practice schedule in additon to required public service and many other requirments. Their parents sacrifice a lot for their kids to go there and NOTHING is given to them. The only un-fair advantage Baylor has is their facilies, campus, educational opprotunities and dedication and quality of coaches. McCallie, Soddy, Cleveland, Father Ryan, Cbhs, all have advantages that attract wrestlers. Should Cleveland get rid of its awesome coaching staff and feeder program because its an advantage over other schools who arent as succesful? Should Soddy tell their passionate fans to not come to matches because its an advantage? Should McCallie tell Gordon Connell to forget half of his wrestling knowledge because he knows more than other coaches? Should Father Ryan discontinue their Nashville Catholic feeder program because its too good? All top notch programs have something that is advantageos and thats why kids want to go there. Good programs and schools dont have to recruit and its always been that way. Houston, Tate, Murphy and Brunner all came to Baylor because it was what they felt was best for them. Baylor didnt recruit them in any shape form or fashion. Money wasnt a deciding factor as most of these kids are paying full tuition or very subnstantial amounts. Those are the facts.

Edited August 30, 2012 by YOUTHCOACH16

[maj]

There is a HUGE misconception that these wrestlers are being recruited and given "full rides". I know it doesnt matter what myself or anyone else says we cant change public perception. I will state the facts and you can believe them or not. Baylor does not recruit anyone. Period. All of the wrestlers that came from other programs left their previous programs and then contacted Baylor. Of all the kids listed in previous posts half of them are paying full tuition. The ones that arent paying full tuition are paying a substantial amount that their parents have to sacrifice in order to give their kids this opportunity. There isnt one single kid on a "free ride" or even close to it. Baylor isnt a win at all cost type of program no matter what you may think. There are many kids who will win the public school state this year and in up coming years that applied to Baylor and were not accepted or couldnt afford it even with financial aide. I will not name any kids but there are several current wrestlers from Chattanooga, Knoxville and Nashville that applied after being enrolled in other high schools that were not accpeted or their parents couldnt swing the costs. Look at the drop off from the feeder youth team and the middle school team and that should prove that Baylor isnt just taking kids who can wrestle. I get asked all the time by other coaches where my red raider club kids go and why they arent on the middle school team. The answer is they apply but dont get accepted or cant afford it. The coaches always look at me funny and ask why Baylor doesnt give them scholarships and I have to explain that due to popular belief it doesnt really work that way. These kids work their butts off not only in the wrestling room but in the class room and its belittling their efforts to just assume they win because they are at Baylor. They deal with a grueling wrestling schedule, 3 hours a day of homework and studying outside the classroom and a pretty intense practice schedule in additon to required public service and many other requirments. Their parents sacrifice a lot for their kids to go there and NOTHING is given to them. The only un-fair advantage Baylor has is their facilies, campus, educational opprotunities and dedication and quality of coaches. McCallie, Soddy, Cleveland, Father Ryan, Cbhs, all have advantages that attract wrestlers. Should Cleveland get rid of its awesome coaching staff and feeder program because its an advantage over other schools who arent as succesful? Should Soddy tell their passionate fans to not come to matches because its an advantage? Should McCallie tell Gordon Connell to forget half of his wrestling knowledge because he knows more than other coaches? Should Father Ryan discontinue their Nashville Catholic feeder program because its too good? All top notch programs have something that is advantageos and thats why kids want to go there. Good programs and schools dont have to recruit and its always been that way. Houston, Tate, Murphy and Brunner all came to Baylor because it was what they felt was best for them. Baylor didnt recruit them in any shape form or fashion. Money wasnt a deciding factor as most of these kids are paying full tuition or very subnstantial amounts. Those are the facts.

 

Youthcoach has the best and hopefully last post on this subject. I agree with every word and it echos my experience with my own kids when I was testing the waters with several private schools. In the end for a variety of reasons I stayed with the public schools but as youth coach stated, I had to initiate all contact with Baylor and any financial aid offered would have been needs based as determined by an independent party. While my kids' athletic prowess would have been a welcome addition to any of the private school progams we looked at, they weren't going to pay for it, and I didn't expect them to. I suspect some of these delusional parents who think their kid is the next Cam Newton get a rude awakening when they are told to fill out the financial forms to see what they qualify for rather than get the " full ride " they think is their due.