TSSAA Volleyball Format is a JOKE

[vb71]

Similar to smdad, I've been to state a few times with 3 different formats: 1) pool play followed by 8 team bracket, 2) pool play followed by 4 team bracket, and 3) current "double" elimination bracket. I agree that using pools to knock it down to 4 teams is unfair since the pools can be unbalanced. Pools and 8 team bracket is probably the fairest, but it takes more games to finish it. The current double elimination bracket is a good compromise. It does seem to get it down to the two best teams. Not requiring the "if necessary" game in the finals is the only thing that seems unfair.

 

If you view the first two days just as a way to narrow it down to the two best teams, then leaving out the "if necessary" game doesn't sound that bad. Certainly it sounds fairer than a single elimination bracket without any kind of seeding.

Isn't this the way basketball has been run in the state forever? The teams are set based on the luck of the draw. If you get a bad draw you go home after one.To be the state champions means that you have to eventually beat every other team before you. It doesn't matter what game it is. I think the single elimination bracket is much better. If a team is good enough they really will not worry about seeding. Some are just happy to be there anyway and usually only a few reallly have a chance to win anyway.

[clifford20]

I don't have a big problem with it. The pool play set up was tough cause 3 of the best 4 team could be in the same side and only the top two go. I think this happened one year in AAA when arguably the 3rd best team in the tournament did't get out of pool play. I think this is the best way because it assures the two best teams get to the finals. Speaking of that, there was finally a competitive state finals in a couple of divisions. AAA finals are typically a 3 or 4 game sweep. Good to see that.

[PHargis]

I'm not really sure why this discussion exists right now. This has happened. The Tournament is over, finished. What happened, the TSSAA, like it does everything else, ran all of this by the member schools and it was accepted so they did it. There was no complaint. It was agreed and is over. Now the subject has been brought up and for next year the TSSAA can present their thoughts again. The schools have a chance to redo in or recommend it but they need to do it right now. The issue of private schools should be the same way. But when its done, it should be done as part of the classification discussion.. and left alone until the next reclassification. The schools will vote to how they want it. But when ots done, its done. I like it the way it is because the other way gets things finshed to soon. The extra game at the end, I have no thoughts on. I that willts just an extra game and likely will increase costs. Schools decusion. Same as with private schools which I think is the wrong thing to do but if that is how it works would not oppose it. There will always be a large group of A class private schools. How its handled, its handled that way. no delay and the decision may be the same as it is now, an option. But it is a decision.

[clubonlyforus]

Why does it seem like PHargis is the only one who is allowed to post and have opinions? If the opinions of others are different, then PH wants to end discussion. Obviously there were some replies to this thread unlike a lot of PH's threads. I like to read everyone's opinion even if it includes beating the dead horse all the way until next season.

 

Keep on posting!

[vb71]

I'm not really sure why this discussion exists right now. This has happened. The Tournament is over, finished. What happened, the TSSAA, like it does everything else, ran all of this by the member schools and it was accepted so they did it. There was no complaint. It was agreed and is over. Now the subject has been brought up and for next year the TSSAA can present their thoughts again. The schools have a chance to redo in or recommend it but they need to do it right now. The issue of private schools should be the same way. But when its done, it should be done as part of the classification discussion.. and left alone until the next reclassification. The schools will vote to how they want it. But when ots done, its done. I like it the way it is because the other way gets things finshed to soon. The extra game at the end, I have no thoughts on. I that willts just an extra game and likely will increase costs. Schools decusion. Same as with private schools which I think is the wrong thing to do but if that is how it works would not oppose it. There will always be a large group of A class private schools. How its handled, its handled that way. no delay and the decision may be the same as it is now, an option. But it is a decision.

You say that you do not understand why this discussion is going on and a few sentences later you state that the issue needs to be addressed now. I do think, as clubonlyforus stated, you seem to be upset that you didn't start this thread. This is actually something interesting unlike 95% of your posts.

[PHargis]

That certainly is a good point if it were total true but no one has been kept from introducing opinions except if the post got away from what this site was originally set up to be, High School Volleyball. It did veer away from that quite a few times and a number of times things were mentioned that sat there for a while with no response and rather than let the died subject or subjects dominate the site, we just moved on to something else. In no way was Coacht or Play4Keeps involved with that, it was a way I thought to keep the site more interesting. There was no doubt, in my mind, that there was a shortage of viewpoints as sometimes it was forgotten the demographics of who mostly were looking in to the sit. And its just like why I am having to answer this, it really has nothing to do with the topic and could take us away from important issues and the history of and how we got to the format to start with. It was because, my opinion, baack during that time, a lot of fansw were searching for ways to get the sport publicized. Interest had beeen waning and the game was not widely understood. Some thought a seearch for aq better format was the answer and others thought or many other things like the times the tournaments were held was a problem. There was a genuine effort, IMO, by the TSSAA to acknowledge and help the situation and this is why so many formats were tried. It may have looked disorganized but is seemed to me a genuine effort.

[PHargis]

The format is the issue and I haven't seen there has not been a continued effort to tweek the problem such as even televising the finals, putting coaches who are color commentors to spice up the presentation.

By saying that its over meant the results of what has gone on the last 3 days has concluded but does not mean that the TSSAA will not try to find a better way I think. We have 5 Champions and it does not diminish what has happened by some great players and coaches and officials in any way. Their viewers outnumber the rest of the viewers significantly.

Edited October 27, 2012 by PHargis

[vb71]

That certainly is a good point if it were total true but no one has been kept from introducing opinions except if the post got away from what this site was originally set up to be, High School Volleyball. It did veer away from that quite a few times and a number of times things were mentioned that sat there for a while with no response and rather than let the died subject or subjects dominate the site, we just moved on to something else. In no way was Coacht or Play4Keeps involved with that, it was a way I thought to keep the site more interesting. There was no doubt, in my mind, that there was a shortage of viewpoints as sometimes it was forgotten the demographics of who mostly were looking in to the sit. And its just like why I am having to answer this, it really has nothing to do with the topic and could take us away from important issues and the history of and how we got to the format to start with. It was because, my opinion, baack during that time, a lot of fansw were searching for ways to get the sport publicized. Interest had beeen waning and the game was not widely understood. Some thought a seearch for aq better format was the answer and others thought or many other things like the times the tournaments were held was a problem. There was a genuine effort, IMO, by the TSSAA to acknowledge and help the situation and this is why so many formats were tried. It may have looked disorganized but is seemed to me a genuine effort.

Interest had been waning and the game was not widely understood? Volleyball began to explode in high school in the mid-nineties, way before coacht was here and before you were introduced to the game. Many were working to see that volleyball did grow and I do not see how you can say interest was "waning".

[PHargis]

71, an opinion, like yours. Saw it visabily. Can recount what has happened?

[vb71]

71, an opinion, like yours. Saw it visabily. Can recount what has happened?

I do not even understand what you are talking about. Please clarify.

[play4keeps]

Man, I am LOVING this conversation its nice to see I'm not the lone ranger on this one. Why should the state tournament be any different than the NCAA? One and done. We play a region of 8 and then on to the elite 8. Every match is all or nothing. Bring your A game or go home.

 

And off topic but the fact that Brentwood and Ravenwood played each other 8 times in one season is insane. This should NOT happen. The should play in district and then post season. The should not match up during tournaments...ever. I can't believe the TSSAA allows this to happen. But again, this is just one woman's opinion...carry on

[PHargis]

I do not even understand what you are talking about. Please clarify.

I'll answer your comment with a comment and even go back further. 71, you came on this site in Oct 77. Why did you even bother? You've posted 80 times in 4 years mostly around Tournament time and a little before. This has nothing to do with the format but all of the format changes that were trying to be implemented happen the couple of years before that. Were you involved? Why, when CoachT started this site in 1990's, put his money and time into a hobby he says, for promotion, were you involved? His story is well documented and he did it for a reason. I agree that you may have quietly done your thing but many others did the same thing, some for selfish motives and some just because they loved it. It was a good sport but not going anywhere and after all girls basketball was the thing along with AAU. Sorry Volleyball was good but no structure. CT did one thing along with the computer, it gave the sport structure and visability along with a way to provide quick information, whether you like it or not. After all, how many newspapers knew that scores duing that time and earlier, even existed. Not many and if it was there, it was a blurb that was hard to read. My posts, uninteresting?? Score detail does get that way but color along with it does not. And opinion only brings out those who have a contrary opinion, not necessarily the same opinion. Why would you want that any way? Coacht found a need and generated a vehicle and in Volleyball, found Pageman, a stats guy who had some newspaper background and a personality. He traveled the State, and loved the game. Not sure in the early 2000's where you were but not on the State scene. It was obviosu to PM that the sport had no definite structure and everyone just did their own thing. One side of the State knew nothing about the other side or their players, coachs and very little about their fans. Evolving from this came an expanded Coacht with over 90000 members, partisons, players and fans. I take it you are not a fan of CT. In some way it took away some of your space. CT is still trying to find its difinitive nature and some of us have taken it where its not as it has been started and have gotten into the virtual area of untouchable space which is not, in times past, not been the norm.

Its just like changing the way the format used to be, and why did we try this. Just like today politically, change does not mean success. Smetimes it means destructive, costly failure. Coacht did and has put visibility on all of those things because with help of fans nothing is sacred.

I say all of this to say all of this could have been done and the changes made in the game without a vehicle like Coacht is living in the past. Since 2007 when you came aboard, it hasn't been of much inbterest to you. You did try to get aboard. And that is what is happening here with this subject. Somebody says there is a problem and its being discussed. From a readers point of view, I sensed an overkill from those who have just worked hard in Murphy Center to put on. arguably, the best performance has had in a STate Championship. They didn't select the format. They just made it look the best they could. And I would say, Chill. Somebody is going to analyze this with what has been said and nake it better. And as far as Coacht and his part, you have been an important part and after all its just information, if you don't like it turn it off. Or participate to make it better. And to my friemd Clubisforus. This is a High School Volleyball Site as I have been told and if it changes, someone will say its been changed. Thats way beyond my pay grade.

Edited October 27, 2012 by PHargis