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Expectus

TSSAA Volleyball Format is a JOKE

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Man, I am LOVING this conversation :) its nice to see I'm not the lone ranger on this one. Why should the state tournament be any different than the NCAA? One and done. We play a region of 8 and then on to the elite 8. Every match is all or nothing. Bring your A game or go home.

 

And off topic but the fact that Brentwood and Ravenwood played each other 8 times in one season is insane. This should NOT happen. The should play in district and then post season. The should not match up during tournaments...ever. I can't believe the TSSAA allows this to happen. But again, this is just one woman's opinion...carry on :)

Coming out of the bushes atcha. These are some good points but as far as Schools not having the right to play whoever they want, is like schools not having some autonamy on getting Tournament slots filled or having the responsibility to help make their student/Athletes better. Thats the responsibility and the mission of the schools. That was one argument the private schools made when they wanted to be in another Division. That is the argument the Coach at Ravenwood has been making in the newspaper as to why Williamson Volleyball is so good. If you would look, many of those same schools play each other the same ammount of time as the 'Woods" play. As you have stated and I can understand, it did not allow Wilson to get to the STATE. Pretty frustrating I can be sure.

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Play4keeps....Great point. With all due respect PH, if I see your post and they are more than 4 sentences long I don't even read them...

Lets get back to the topic. The topic is..The Volleyball final 8 format is a joke. If any format is part Double and part single elimination its unfair. Period!!! Like I said before..It should either be one or the other. If they do it because they want to increase revenue (which is probably the reason) then it's wrong. Do what's fair for the girls. I will never root for the loser bracket winner to win, if they keep it the way it is. Even if Bearden would be in the loser bracket. Yes I would root for them but I personnaly wouldn't think it was fair if they won.

I STILL haven't heard a legit reason why it's fair the way they do it now. Please someone tell me why it should stay as is!!!

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I'll answer your comment with a comment and even go back further. 71, you came on this site in Oct 77. Why did you even bother? You've posted 80 times in 4 years mostly around Tournament time and a little before. This has nothing to do with the format but all of the format changes that were trying to be implemented happen the couple of years before that. Were you involved? Why, when CoachT started this site in 1990's, put his money and time into a hobby he says, for promotion, were you involved? His story is well documented and he did it for a reason. I agree that you may have quietly done your thing but many others did the same thing, some for selfish motives and some just because they loved it. It was a good sport but not going anywhere and after all girls basketball was the thing along with AAU. Sorry Volleyball was good but no structure. CT did one thing along with the computer, it gave the sport structure and visability along with a way to provide quick information, whether you like it or not. After all, how many newspapers knew that scores duing that time and earlier, even existed. Not many and if it was there, it was a blurb that was hard to read. My posts, uninteresting?? Score detail does get that way but color along with it does not. And opinion only brings out those who have a contrary opinion, not necessarily the same opinion. Why would you want that any way? Coacht found a need and generated a vehicle and in Volleyball, found Pageman, a stats guy who had some newspaper background and a personality. He traveled the State, and loved the game. Not sure in the early 2000's where you were but not on the State scene. It was obviosu to PM that the sport had no definite structure and everyone just did their own thing. One side of the State knew nothing about the other side or their players, coachs and very little about their fans. Evolving from this came an expanded Coacht with over 90000 members, partisons, players and fans. I take it you are not a fan of CT. In some way it took away some of your space. CT is still trying to find its difinitive nature and some of us have taken it where its not as it has been started and have gotten into the virtual area of untouchable space which is not, in times past, not been the norm.

Its just like changing the way the format used to be, and why did we try this. Just like today politically, change does not mean success. Smetimes it means destructive, costly failure. Coacht did and has put visibility on all of those things because with help of fans nothing is sacred.

I say all of this to say all of this could have been done and the changes made in the game without a vehicle like Coacht is living in the past. Since 2007 when you came aboard, it hasn't been of much inbterest to you. You did try to get aboard. And that is what is happening here with this subject. Somebody says there is a problem and its being discussed. From a readers point of view, I sensed an overkill from those who have just worked hard in Murphy Center to put on. arguably, the best performance has had in a STate Championship. They didn't select the format. They just made it look the best they could. And I would say, Chill. Somebody is going to analyze this with what has been said and nake it better. And as far as Coacht and his part, you have been an important part and after all its just information, if you don't like it turn it off. Or participate to make it better. And to my friemd Clubisforus. This is a High School Volleyball Site as I have been told and if it changes, someone will say its been changed. Thats way beyond my pay grade.

I enjoy coacht very much. I do have a problem when one person endlessly posts and then questions other posts which receive comments. I think coacht is very worthwhile, just do not like someone whose opinion seems to be the only one that matters. And trust me, do not try to talk about the game as though you really understand it. Some of us have spent most of our lives loving the game and do not appreciate someone constantly giving their opinion without accepting other's opinion. Look at the amount of posts you have placed on here and how many are never responded to. Should tell you something.

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I appreciate your opinion and you've been there before. A classic example of two people talking around each other in 80 posts in 4 years. So I wont misunderstead again, and I am serious, where did you coach at some years ago. Not your name please.

Edited by PHargis

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I think it was beause it was the one the schools decided on overall and they had their reasons, Someteme you might ask the Bearden principal. Sometimes the over all picture is not known to the rest of us but the last time i remember things being changed, it was changed a number of different ways in a few years and that really gave the wrong idea. it was almost as bad as the football senario which makes everyone look dumb and nobody is ever satisfied, they will look at it again, talk to the schools and see if they want to stay overnight in the Boro one more night and if they say no, they'll look at something else. They are flexible but don't want to look dumb I suppose. Football has broken them of that. Your school had a good year and I followed them from afar and was impressed. Good Job.

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BRB, I think someone said it best earlier. It's a good compromise.

One and out makes a short trip for the teams. Double elimination makes for a good tournament but there isn't time for an if necessary game at the end. That would add another day to the tournament which would take away from the student part of student/athlete.

It may not be the fairest but it is a good compromise.

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BRB, I think someone said it best earlier. It's a good compromise.

One and out makes a short trip for the teams. Double elimination makes for a good tournament but there isn't time for an if necessary game at the end. That would add another day to the tournament which would take away from the student part of student/athlete.

It may not be the fairest but it is a good compromise.

 

Ok...I give you credit for coming up with an answer..But tell me this...These Athletes have been practicing since the first of August. EVERY DAY!! Shouldn't the governing body put the Fairest format out there for them? You said, "it may not be the fairest", well then lets make it the fairest. This is for the STATE CHAMPIONSHIP!! It should be the fairest. It isnt fair that one team gets to lose and still stay in it while the other doesnt..Thoughts about that?? I like the try though..

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Current format puts the best two teams in the championship game. There are other formats that should do the same, but single elimination is not one of them. The best two teams could meet in the semi's or even the quarterfinals in a single elimination bracket. Just because basketball doesn't care when the best two teams meet is not a good reason for volleyball to do the same.

 

I like the idea of pool play to set the seeding for an 8-team single elimination bracket. This is similar to the weekend VB tourneys most schools participate in. If playing too many games is the problem with this format, then borrow again from these weekend tourneys and make the pool play matches best of 3 since they are only for seeding purposes. You could go back to best of 5 for bracket play.

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Coming out of the bushes atcha. These are some good points but as far as Schools not having the right to play whoever they want, is like schools not having some autonamy on getting Tournament slots filled or having the responsibility to help make their student/Athletes better. Thats the responsibility and the mission of the schools. That was one argument the private schools made when they wanted to be in another Division. That is the argument the Coach at Ravenwood has been making in the newspaper as to why Williamson Volleyball is so good. If you would look, many of those same schools play each other the same ammount of time as the 'Woods" play. As you have stated and I can understand, it did not allow Wilson to get to the STATE. Pretty frustrating I can be sure.

 

Ok, I'm not coming 'out of the bushes'. As I've stated in other posts, I visit the forum every day, something a moderator is supposed to do. I don't post often for two reasons, one, I think that the forums should be self-sustaining through topics such as this one started by and continued by the members. If a topic is not of interest, no one contributes, and it dies. And secondly, I no longer have daughters playing HS volleyball so I have no dog in the fight. I catch HS matches when I can either through tournament or one of the HS close to my home (WC, MJ, Lebanon, Friendship, etc) but I can no longer speak with any authority on any of the programs I used to know so well in my past.

 

As far as (Wilson) Central getting to state, they didn't even get out of their district but that's no concern of mine. Like I said, we've moved on :) I am simply pointing out that when my daughter and I totaled up college matches she plays, they never play conference opponents in tournament play. They only play them when it counts. The *most* a team might meet a conference foe is 4. Twice during conference play, once in the conference tournament, and once again if both teams make the NCAA regional. Since only one team moves on from the regional, they couldn't meet after that.

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Not sayin good or bad, what size pools and how do you designate who is in them? SShs. Those were some of the issues before in State and maybe because, as today, the play is already assigned by rule in the TSSAA guideline without any seeding or is it?

Edited by PHargis

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Two 4-team pools say pool A and pool B. In final bracket pool A first plays pool B 4th, pool A 2nd plays pool B 3rd, etc. The only constraint on putting teams in initial pools would be keeping teams from the same district out of the same pool. For example, don't put Ravenwood and Brentwood in the same pool. I think they do something similar in the draw for the double elimination bracket today.

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