Can JPII build a winner?

[WesVLT]

Is Pope John Paul a sleeping giant? Apart from the Golden Tate era, the Knights have struggled -- in part because they're a relatively new program in a gauntlet of a league.

 

But let's look at the advantages JPII enjoys:

 

-Great facilities

-Quality education

-A rapidly growing area with a proven supply of athletes

-The only DII school on the north/northeast side of town

-From what I've heard, a large portion of the student body is not Catholic

 

Other than the gauntlet argument, why has JPII struggled? What can the Knights do to capitalize on their advantages and build a viable program? I don't ask these questions sarcastically, but out of genuine curiosity. 

 

-Is there a lack of support from administration?

-Does the erosion of the Catholic feeder system play a role?

-Are two Catholic high schools in Nashville one too many for athletic purposes?

 

I know there aren't many (any?) JPII posters on the board, but who else can offer some quality insight? 

Edited August 15, 2013 by WesVLT

[orangecrush]

Is Pope John Paul a sleeping giant? Apart from the Golden Tate era, the Knights have struggled -- in part because they're a relatively new program in a gauntlet of a league.

 

But let's look at the advantages JPII enjoys:

 

-Great facilities

-Quality education

-A rapidly growing area with a proven supply of athletes

-The only DII school on the north/northeast side of town

-From what I've heard, a large portion of the student body is not Catholic

 

Other than the gauntlet argument, why has JPII struggled? What can the Knights do to capitalize on their advantages and build a viable program? I don't ask these questions sarcastically, but out of genuine curiosity. 

 

-Is there a lack of support from administration?

-Does the erosion of the Catholic feeder system play a role?

-Are two Catholic high schools in Nashville one too many for athletic purposes?

 

I know there aren't many (any?) JPII posters on the board, but who else can offer some quality insight? 

I believe that you answered the main problem, and seemingly unachievable task, of overcoming their yearly schedule.  JPII can't even compete on a yearly basis, with BA, Ensworth, MBA, Baylor, McCallie, MUS, and Christian Brothers.  They can beat a Father Ryan, St. Benedict, and Briarcrest, but not regularly.  Too much money and tradition at the other schools for the Knights to overcome.  This is just my opinion and not a slam because JPII is a fine school.   

[williamsoncounty]

JP2s football team usually consists of kids that live within a short radius of the school. Unlike Brentwood Academy, Ensworth and MBA, JP2s football program doesn't "reach out" to kids in Smyrna, Murfreesboro, etc... 

[Justin615]

just not enough talent. I was talking to a BA fan at the BA/Maplewood game two years ago, and he said JP2 is too slow to compete, and not enough size up front. But I will have to say they have real good facilities.

[RedRobin1]

I personally think that two Roman Catholic high schools in Nashville is one too many as far as fielding a competitive football team goes. While non-Catholics can and do attend both JP2 and Ryan, non-Catholic kids that are seriously interested in playing football currently have a host of other options that do not require sitting through religion classes; the athletic base of these two schools is Catholic kids and since JP2 moved into the same division as Ryan, that base seems too diluted to field two competitive teams in the most competitive division in Tennessee high school football. Perhaps John Paul becoming a Saint will help?

Edited August 15, 2013 by RedRobin1

[eers]

Simply put, they don't have the athletes. There are a ton of athletes in sumner county, north Nashville, etc., but its a chicken/egg conversation. You have to win to get the athletes, but need the athletes to win. Sumner county schools and programs are harder to pull from than metro, but I think the current staff has a chance to get some kids out...

[FBfan2002]

They're getting better, though their record may not show it this year. Weight-lifting program is excellent, facilities are excellent, coaching staff is excellent. Joslin is a wily veteran who knows what he is doing, and some good young kids are entering the program. Their numbers are up. 

 

Their problem isn't anything internal, but external. They're Vanderbilt, playing in the SEC. Can Vanderbilt compete? In spots. 

[WesVLT]

They're getting better, though their record may not show it this year. Weight-lifting program is excellent, facilities are excellent, coaching staff is excellent. Joslin is a wily veteran who knows what he is doing, and some good young kids are entering the program. Their numbers are up. 

 

Their problem isn't anything internal, but external. They're Vanderbilt, playing in the SEC. Can Vanderbilt compete? In spots. 

Good post. I'll say this for Joslin -- in my dealings with him, he has been top-notch. A very nice guy who took lots of time to help me prepare for last year's BA-JPII game. I wish him and the Knights the best of luck this year.

[KWoodroof]

I personally think that two Roman Catholic high schools in Nashville is one too many as far as fielding a competitive football team goes. While non-Catholics can and do attend both JP2 and Ryan, non-Catholic kids that are seriously interested in playing football currently have a host of other options that do not require sitting through religion classes; the athletic base of these two schools is Catholic kids and since JP2 moved into the same division as Ryan, that base seems too diluted to field two competitive teams in the most competitive division in Tennessee high school football. Perhaps John Paul becoming a Saint will help?

Point well taken. During Ryan's heyday (up through the early '70's), the private school options for boys in middle Tennessee were distinctly limited. There was MBA, Ryan, BGA, and a relatively new Brentwood Academy. Ryan not only commanded most of the Catholic population, but also a decent chunk of whoever else wanted a private education. 

 

I now can find 14 private schools in the Nashville area that play 11-man football (and another handful that play 8-man football). That expansion provides a lot more options for parents looking at a private school for their son. Viewed from the schools' perspective, a school needs something that sets it aside from the others. For JP II (and Ryan), that distinction is their Catholic affiliation. The numbers don't favor them at all. According to the Diocese of Nashville website, there are roughly 76,000 Catholics in the diocese (which covers 38 counties, many of which are fairly distant from Nashville), and two Catholic high schools. Contrast this with the Broward County (FL) area, home of St Thomas Aquinas HS, a perennial national power. Roughly a quarter of the 1.7 million people in the county are Catholic, and the county has 4 Catholic high schools. 

 

JP II and Ryan are in the unenviable position of being much too competitive for Div II-A, but not competitive enough for Div II-AA. 

[FBfan2002]

KWoodroof,  yes, you're right that FRHS and JPII divide some of the Catholic school talent that once belonged exclusively to FRHS. But I hear that nearly 40% of JPII students aren't Catholic, and they get a lot of their students from Sumner County public middle schools.

 

They do lose some athletes once they enroll to their academic program. My friend, a parent whose kids play ball at JPII, says if kids don't work hard in the classroom, they'll wash out. His kids say the work isn't brutally hard, and the teachers are there to help, but they do expect consistent homework and effort from everyone. 

 

Seems like they're trying to do things the right way. I'll pull for them for that reason. 

[nosidj]

This is a very well written thread. Good content and conversation. Thanks

[KWoodroof]

 

They do lose some athletes once they enroll to their academic program. My friend, a parent whose kids play ball at JPII, says if kids don't work hard in the classroom, they'll wash out. His kids say the work isn't brutally hard, and the teachers are there to help, but they do expect consistent homework and effort from everyone. 

 

Seems like they're trying to do things the right way. I'll pull for them for that reason. 

A very good point, and probably (hopefully) true of all the Div II schools. Tommy Owen at MBA always said one of his biggest concerns was that frequently his players were sleep-deprived during theme weeks.

 

And I agree with you: that's the correct order of priorities.