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State Brackets are out


baller95
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Let me tell ya, back in the day...In our old district with Baylor, McCallie, Red Bank, Hixson.....you better be good to get 4th in that district. French Roast strong brew.  Sometimes reading this board I think I should be drinking Chock full o'Nuts. If its good enough for Morgan Freeman, it should be good enough for us. You see my good friend Dancing E. Davis say hello for me.

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In response to your question, I'll answer with statistics.

 

After a closer review of only the unbalanced brackets with consideration given to the ranked wrestlers on the weaker side of the bracket it appears that several different teams from four different regions benefit.

 

Two from region 4 benefit being the favorite on the weaker side.

Two from region 5 benefit being the favorite on the weaker side.

Two from region 6 benefit being the favorite on the weaker side.

Five from region 7 benefit being the favorite on the weaker side.

 

These are the the top regions in the state. Regions 4, 5, and 6 all seem to get an equal amount of great draws due to the lop-sided brackets so I see this as a wash between these regions. Region 7 seems to benefit the most by getting 3 additional unbalanced draws in their favor.

 

This guy, who has been bragging the entire season on how great and wonderful region 4 is, and how no one other than them need to wrestle, now is bellyaching that they didn't get good draws.

 

If the region is as great as you have bragged all season, and they will be the only ones standing at the end, as you have said repeatedly, why cry about where you sit.  Just win as you predicted.

 

I would think that you would have bellyached so much last weekend, as they all were beating up on each other.  Now your wonderful kids get to beat up on everyone else, and you start your whine fest.

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126 Wilkins and Debien second round . Providing they both win their first round.  Really, Yall were right no rhyme or reason. 2 losses in state all year beat ranked wrestlers. Lost to Dickenson 2 times. The number 2 ranked wrestler and get thrown to Debien that quick. I guess itll be the hard way to get a medal at all.

Dad,  That is the rules.  Your son lost big time to the number one in our region. 

 

Posted 3 weeks ago

Wilkins lost to dickeson. 7-5 good match. Its ok we know what to do now to beat him.

 

 

Posts like the one above are hard to forget. Good luck to your son

this weekend.  He will be tested early.

 

Rankings mean nothing.  To be seeded, you must have placed the previous year and win the region this year.  Number 1's wrestle number 4's and number 2's wrestle number 3's.  No one cares about the record at this time.  You gotta win to medal.  If your son would have won in the regional final, he would be wrestling a 4th place finisher from another region in his first match.  If he won that match, he would face the winner of a (2nd place regional finalist V 3rd place regional finisher)

in round 2. 

 

BTW, you will not have an opportunity to confront your coach after your son's matches at the State venue.  You wont be able to get on the floor. 

Edited by HSDAD
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some of that "unbalance" is based on how some of the "top" kids may have been upset in their Region Tourneys and also you rightly or wrongly are basing your top kids on rankings done by two coaches (not necessarily correct).  This is now a double elimination tourney and not a carry like in the past.  There are 32 talented kids in each weight class getting the opportunity to settle this debate on the mat and if two top guys meet early, it won't be the first time, and as you (rlwrest) have said this is about being the best wrestler.  So beat him early, beat him late it only matters for team score and this tourney is about the individual.  So unless you can develop a better system, get many other coaches behind it, and get TSSAA to approve it ...let's just let the kids wrestle it out.

 

Also, The TSSAA has made changes to the format of the tourney to try and make it more exciting for the fans and wrestlers.  All coaches were sent a poll at the beginning of the season and were asked for input.  Many responded and changes were made.  I was involved and I know Mark was very motivated to make positive changes.   So try and be positive

 

Gabe

all good pfffft there is a kid with a 6- 17 record in the state

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Dad,  That is the rules.  Your son lost big time to the number one in our region. 

 

Posted 3 weeks ago

Wilkins lost to dickeson. 7-5 good match. Its ok we know what to do now to beat him.

 

 

Posts like the one above are hard to forget. Good luck to your son

this weekend.  He will be tested early.

 

Rankings mean nothing.  To be seeded, you must have placed the previous year and win the region this year.  Number 1's wrestle number 4's and number 2's wrestle number 3's.  No one cares about the record at this time.  You gotta win to medal.  If your son would have won in the regional final, he would be wrestling a 4th place finisher from another region in his first match.  If he won that match, he would face the winner of a (2nd place regional finalist V 3rd place regional finisher)

in round 2. 

 

BTW, you will not have an opportunity to confront your coach after your son's matches at the State venue.  You wont be able to get on the mat

Edited by buckeyeintn
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I think in seeding you have to put a value to variables.

 

Does a previous state champ account for more than a kid ranked all season?

 

Won / loss records?

 

Head to head competition?

 

Best record head to head or who won last meeting?

 

State placer previous year?

 

Color of singlet?

 

 

What variables should be given how much influence in seedings?

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Won/loss

Significant wins

State placer

Placement of tournaments during the season

Head to head

 

I think those of us that pay attention know who the elite wrestlers are in each weight class.  I just think some space between those elite wrestlers allows the better wrestlers to meet as the tournement narrows down.  Isn't that the pupose for having brackets?  Otherwise why don't we just wrestle in pools?

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If coaches are entering & monitoring results each week throughout the season and it's accurate, then head to head should be a factor, after previous medalist/region champ criteria, imo.

 

I appreciated TD guys input on where we have come as a state over the past several years, copied/pasted... You had to place in the top four in your district to make it to the Region and then place in the top four in the region to make it to the State tournament. Only 4 kids placed in the state. You also only had 12 weight classes...so you only had 12 state champs and 48 total place winners. Now you'll have 42 state champs, and 252 state placers.

 

Think about that...48 total place winners before and 252 NOW. More state place winners then there were Regional place winners in the past. Prior to the split only 192 kids even qualified for the state and now you have 252 "ALL-State"

 

All in all, or sport is growing, but not sure about D2 as coach Connell pointed out . Find a way to combine individuals. It's good for all of us. Duals are fine.

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some of that "unbalance" is based on how some of the "top" kids may have been upset in their Region Tourneys and also you rightly or wrongly are basing your top kids on rankings done by two coaches (not necessarily correct).  This is now a double elimination tourney and not a carry like in the past.  There are 32 talented kids in each weight class getting the opportunity to settle this debate on the mat and if two top guys meet early, it won't be the first time, and as you (rlwrest) have said this is about being the best wrestler.  So beat him early, beat him late it only matters for team score and this tourney is about the individual.  So unless you can develop a better system, get many other coaches behind it, and get TSSAA to approve it ...let's just let the kids wrestle it out.

 

Also, The TSSAA has made changes to the format of the tourney to try and make it more exciting for the fans and wrestlers.  All coaches were sent a poll at the beginning of the season and were asked for input.  Many responded and changes were made.  I was involved and I know Mark was very motivated to make positive changes.   So try and be positive

 

Gabe

 

I agree with a lot of what you said. Usually the kids that are on the radar (ranking) turn out to be the majority of the medalists and for 4 or 5 to be grouped on one side of the bracket leaving only one on the other side is an injustice. Yes there is always a few that seem to come out of nowhere and do well but there are still those ranked wrestlers that we do know about that will most of the time do well. Why group them together?

 

Yes it will be settled on the mat. Yes the winner will rise to the top and beat them in any and every round. Yes it is an individual sport but at the same time team points are calculated. This is what the unbalanced brackets effect the most. Wrestlers that had a very minimal chance of making the finals now have greatly increased chance because the vast majority of the talent is on the other side of the bracket. This manipulates team scores drastically.

 

I don't have to develop a better system. Its already been done. Tournaments have been seeded all over the country for many many years, even in TN.

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Rob, I just glanced over the final ranking's from last year before the state tournament. On USA wrestling-Tennessee website. At 160 the 5th ranked wrestler won a state championship and a lot of ranked guys didn't even medal. 1 and 2 did ok, but from there u coulda thrown dice at the wall and done as well. Some 2's didn't even medal. We both know its not an exact science, I was looking at the emphasis you were putting on 'blind draw' when you do that it makes it sound like you think someone was shown favor from nefarious minds wrecking kids dreams.  

 

I emphasized 'random blind draw' over 'seeding'.

 

I remember 160 being one of the most lop-sided brackets last year. Last year's results are a great example of how ranked wrestlers randomly placed into an unbalanced bracket can ultimately determine the outcome. If 95% of the talent is on one side of the bracket then the probable medalists are going to beat each other and eventually put each other out. While on the other side wrestlers have a much easier path and it is possible and even likely that a lowered ranked wrestler or even an unranked wrestler will make the finals.

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