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private vs public tssaa needs to seperate


lynard
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Seems as if our debate has come down to me asking you one simple question...do you believe that private schools have absolutely no advantage over public schools as the rules stand? If you choose the same response as earlier..."for the split, as long as it's done fairly", explain how it might not be fair to someone.

Ill answer it after you answer one question and that is we are talking just athletics? Correct?
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You will never get me to believe that private school kids deal with the same teenage problems as public school kids, nor will I ever believe that it doesnt make a HUGE difference. How many private school kids go home after school to an empty house with no food? How many of them have friends that go home to an empty house with no food? How many of them wear their older brothers cleats that he borrowed from a friend for 4 years of highschool. How many of them have to get up at 5 in the morning to catch a bus by 5:45 and ride it for 2 hours to school every morning. How many of them have to catch a ride home after practice with a coach( doesnt seem like a big deal until coach drops you off while your drunk daddy is cussin you when you walk up on the porch). How many of them have to try to study while kids who are only at school cause they have to be are terrorizing em? I could go on forever with this, all of this has an effect on school and athletic performance, and the absolute BEST teachers and coaches cant fix those problems. Problems that private schools RARELY have.

We did fix those issues at the PUBLIC school I came from and we were very proud of that!!
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Ill answer it after you answer one question and that is we are talking just athletics? Correct?

The topic of this thread is "private vs. public TSSAA needs to separate", TSSAA...Tennessee Secondary School Athletic Association, denotes that in fact we are talking just athletics in this instance. I'll go one step further and say just from the perspective of TSSAA only, no other factors than TSSAA operating rules apply.
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The topic of this thread is "private vs. public TSSAA needs to separate", TSSAA...Tennessee Secondary School Athletic Association, denotes that in fact we are talking just athletics in this instance. I'll go one step further and say just from the perspective of TSSAA only, no other factors than TSSAA operating rules apply.

I like how you keep talking down to me :} but here is my answer:

I think in the overall scheme of things there are advantages to both institutions, so if I break them down maybe we can see if one has advantage or not:

 

Private Schools---Can get kids from anywhere, their students for the most part have no academic issues much to deal except for lazyness, their students tend to have more school pride and want to be part of the bigger picture, their parents are usually more engaged, and for the D2 schools money is not a factor as they give scholarships

 

Public Schools--- Dont have to worry if a kid makes it academic or not because they can put into different levels instead everyone is college prep as most privates are, secondly money is not a factor because its a free education so them leaving because their parent loses their job doesnt come into play, unless its an open zone situation a kid MUST GO to your school if they live in the district no matter what the child wants, FREE transportation to get the kids to school, facilitles are tax funded so if enrollment drops you can still get the improvements needed

 

the fact of the matter is Privates in my opinion have a slight advantage because your'e getting a better student, but the fact is there are alot of kids who are great athletes who just cant either afford or make it academically to go to a private institution, in the long run I believe one can win at either institution as long as you put the work in and I have had the opportunity to do that.

 

I said I was for the split if it was done fairly and what i mean by that is, if you're going to split then understand there is a difference between a private like Baylor and one like Grace academy in the Chattanooga area is all I'm saying.

 

I think that the better thing to do is go to a six class system with a multiplier on the privates and i think then you balance out the differences between the institutions.

Edited by skydogg25
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We did fix those issues at the PUBLIC school I came from and we were very proud of that!!

As well you should be! Just for some background..."My" school has addressed those problems as well. Graduation rate there is at 97%, well over the state average. Of those 97%, we have a college enrollment of 94%, and are ranked at #21 on the list of great schools in Tennessee. Our teachers and administrators go above and beyond their duties every day, and thanks in large part to the Ayers Foundation's scholarship program and the partnership with JSCC through their dual enrollment program, every student who chooses to attend college has that opportunity. The debate about the split has had, and will have no bearing on the achievement of success that our school enjoys, it's purely to give these same students a level playing field in athletics.
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I like how you keep talking down to me :} but here is my answer:

I think in the overall scheme of things there are advantages to both institutions, so if I break them down maybe we can see if one has advantage or not:

 

Private Schools---Can get kids from anywhere, their students for the most part have no academic issues much to deal except for lazyness, their students tend to have more school pride and want to be part of the bigger picture, their parents are usually more engaged, and for the D2 schools money is not a factor as they give scholarships

 

Public Schools--- Dont have to worry if a kid makes it academic or not because they can put into different levels instead everyone is college prep as most privates are, secondly money is not a factor because its a free education so them leaving because their parent loses their job doesnt come into play, unless its an open zone situation a kid MUST GO to your school if they live in the district no matter what the child wants, FREE transportation to get the kids to school, facilitles are tax funded so if enrollment drops you can still get the improvements needed

 

the fact of the matter is Privates in my opinion have a slight advantage because your'e getting a better student, but the fact is there are alot of kids who are great athletes who just cant either afford or make it academically to go to a private institution, in the long run I believe one can win at either institution as long as you put the work in and I have had the opportunity to do that.

 

I said I was for the split if it was done fairly and what i mean by that is, if you're going to split then understand there is a difference between a private like Baylor and one like Grace academy in the Chattanooga area is all I'm saying.

 

I think that the better thing to do is go to a six class system with a multiplier on the privates and i think then you balance out the differences between the institutions.

The "talking down" thing isn't intentional, but I tend to get frustrated when someone over complicates things. You asked, and I replied...athletics only, per TSSAA rules. Your response addresses academic issues, laziness, school pride, parental involvement, transportation, facilities, and improvements...not what I had hoped for, which was your honest opinion...yes or no. There are a few critical differences between public and privates...

 

1.Eligibility...private= transfer and play. Public= transfer and sit out one calendar year.

 

2.Restricted enrollment...the ability to recruit from a large area the students that they desire, while other students from the same geographic location may be denied enrollment in order to keep the overall number of students below classification cutoff.

 

3.Recruitment...the big issue to most people, no need to rewrite the book.

 

4.Aid...big no-no, even for DI privates... except for work study or faith based assistance. This is a huge grey area due to most privates being tied to religious institutions and churches, and the primary reason for the "play for pay" argument...no way for TSSAA to police these infractions...also tied to this issue would be that DII schools with scholarship athletes are free to choose to switch to DI and play with the same athletes.

 

Those are all valid differences, verified by the TSSAA rules. My answer to the same question is that yes, there is an advantage held by privates over publics.

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The "talking down" thing isn't intentional, but I tend to get frustrated when someone over complicates things. You asked, and I replied...athletics only, per TSSAA rules. Your response addresses academic issues, laziness, school pride, parental involvement, transportation, facilities, and improvements...not what I had hoped for, which was your honest opinion...yes or no. There are a few critical differences between public and privates...

 

1.Eligibility...private= transfer and play. Public= transfer and sit out one calendar year.

 

2.Restricted enrollment...the ability to recruit from a large area the students that they desire, while other students from the same geographic location may be denied enrollment in order to keep the overall number of students below classification cutoff.

 

3.Recruitment...the big issue to most people, no need to rewrite the book.

 

4.Aid...big no-no, even for DI privates... except for work study or faith based assistance. This is a huge grey area due to most privates being tied to religious institutions and churches, and the primary reason for the "play for pay" argument...no way for TSSAA to police these infractions...also tied to this issue would be that DII schools with scholarship athletes are free to choose to switch to DI and play with the same athletes.

 

Those are all valid differences, verified by the TSSAA rules. My answer to the same question is that yes, there is an advantage held by privates over publics.

Good Points with the exception of #1 as if a kid transfers to us he has to sit out a calendar year as well...I think the rcruitment thing happens no matter at what school by unethical people so that will always be...but I do agree with you that there are advantages at the Privates I just think we see it at a different level as I see it a slight one you seem to view it as a significant one.

 

Answer me a question as we are heading down to this split though, do not you think that the privates will need to be seperated as we are all not alike as my example shows here in Chattanooga between baylor and Grace Academy?

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We did fix those issues at the PUBLIC school I came from and we were very proud of that!!

HORSE CRAP!! Sending all of your troubled kids to GAP so your grad rates go up doesnt FIX anything. I dont know what part of the country this AMAZING public school was in but the real world of public schools systems have problems that will NEVER be fixed. NOT because Teachers, Coaches , and Administrations arent trying and doing a great job but when you have to take EVERYONE into your school and EVERYONE HAS to go even if they dont want to and parents dont believe they should have to, your going to have issues......ALWAYS!

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HORSE CRAP!! Sending all of your troubled kids to GAP so your grad rates go up doesnt FIX anything. I dont know what part of the country this AMAZING public school was in but the real world of public schools systems have problems that will NEVER be fixed. NOT because Teachers, Coaches , and Administrations arent trying and doing a great job but when you have to take EVERYONE into your school and EVERYONE HAS to go even if they dont want to and parents dont believe they should have to, your going to have issues......ALWAYS!

Lets just say I feel sorry for you and am glad your not an educator.

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LOL. I may be more involved in the education system than you think.  I feel sorry for you that you have actually convinced yourself that your school FIXED all those problems.

If you're actually in your local school system then I think you should be glad that noone knows how you feel about their children and removes you. And by the way when I said fixed those issues, I wasn't referring to issues going away but that nwe dealt with them and produced some great young men and women.

I came from a school that had the second highest free/reduced meal ratio in the state, came from a district that had the third largest gang activity percentage in the state, came from an area that had a large group of minorities who's first language wasn't english, came from an area that had the fifth largest teenage pregnacy rate in the state and what we did was cha nge our way of approach by saying give every child a chance and cha nge some of handling of these young people and we became...

 

A true sports powerhouse in the state of Georgia

largest band participation % in the

won literary, debate, and drama state each year the past three years

second highest graduation rate amongst schools in Georgia including Privates based on entry at the 9th grade level

second highest average SAT scores in the state including privates

the top facilties in the area

 

 

and guess what the median wage per household in that community is 27,500 per two member working family and for a one person working household its 17,000....so yes it can be done my fine sir!!

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If you're actually in your local school system then I think you should be glad that noone knows how you feel about their children and removes you. And by the way when I said fixed those issues, I wasn't referring to issues going away but that nwe dealt with them and produced some great young men and women.

I came from a school that had the second highest free/reduced meal ratio in the state, came from a district that had the third largest gang activity percentage in the state, came from an area that had a large group of minorities who's first language wasn't english, came from an area that had the fifth largest teenage pregnacy rate in the state and what we did was cha nge our way of approach by saying give every child a chance and cha nge some of handling of these young people and we became...

 

A true sports powerhouse in the state of Georgia

largest band participation % in the

won literary, debate, and drama state each year the past three years

second highest graduation rate amongst schools in Georgia including Privates based on entry at the 9th grade level

second highest average SAT scores in the state including privates

the top facilties in the area

 

 

and guess what the median wage per household in that community is 27,500 per two member working family and for a one person working household its 17,000....so yes it can be done my fine sir!!

Now your backtracking on me AND putting words in my mouth. I never once said I gave up on anyone or that we didnt try to help everyone. I was simply stating issues that public schools deal with that private schools dont then YOU said you worked for a school that FIXED those problems and I called your bluff. If you look back at my post you will even see where I said it wasnt from lack of hard work from teachers parents and coaches , cause trust me I know they bust their tails just to see a small amount of success with some students who have zero to very little help outside school.

You may have addressed those issues and you may have even had some success with several students...but fix those issues.....I disagree. Call me negative or lazy or what have you I just call it whats real. As a teacher , coach , administrator , volunteer at the boys n girls club or any other community leader that deals with the general public and their children all you can do is your best and have the same expectations for everyone but you also have to understand that you cant FIX everything.

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