Is the split coming?

[SRD]

Compete with?  Most of the time, they handily beat the private schools.  How about a "public" school in a not-so-wealthy area like say....Clarksville.  They are the current State Champs and I know they beat at least one "private" school 6-0 during the regular season.  

With so many factors like public v. private; rich v. poor; travel players v. non-travel players; big school v. small school; big city v. small town; great coach v. P.E. teacher.....at the end of the day you can't make everybody happy.  I say enjoy the team and school where your daughter plays and always encourage hard work and discipline to be the best you can be against whoever you play.  If you want to "take it to the next level", find a club team and try out.  If she makes it, who knows, maybe one day you can go watch her play in college!

 

I think Clarksville, Brentwood and Franklin are good examples of what I am talking about. All three have fairly robust "feeder" systems that feed the public schools with a a consistent supply of club players. As a matter of fact, I know several of the Clarksville girls actually travel to Franklin/Brentwood for club soccer.

 

Granted, many of the club players get "poached" by private schools and often the girls go to different public schools, but it still leaves the high school coaches with a steady stream of D1/2 club players. Even with that supply, however, you need pretty good coaching to do well on a consistent basis.

 

It is what it is and I don't see it changing.

 

A bigger challenge is high schools providing consistent, good coaching that gives value to the better players. There is a push by some club systems for girls to give up high school soccer and I've even heard of some college coaches telling players who commit "no more high school soccer", though I've only heard this. It was a quandary this year for my daughter as her club season has been going since September. Fortunately her club coach was kind enough to let her go and enjoy her senior year and her school brought in a new coach who taught the girls soccer. Not a great year as far as record, but it reinforced her love of the game.

Edited November 6, 2014 by SRD

[1925Kee]

Not assuming.  I already got one playing in college so I'm good!!  Any change (or no change at all) would be good by me.  In High School, we'd be happy to play anyone, anytime.

And that's why it's important to look at this from another point of view. You're saying you are not affected by the system. There are many schools that are affected. Negatively.

 

It's good you have a daughter playing in college, a system that is multi-tiered and attempts to promote good competition with divisions based on money and commitment to athletics. Will your daughter's college coach play anyone, anytime?

[Impactdad22]

And that's why it's important to look at this from another point of view. You're saying you are not affected by the system. There are many schools that are affected. Negatively.

 

It's good you have a daughter playing in college, a system that is multi-tiered and attempts to promote good competition with divisions based on money and commitment to athletics. Will your daughter's college coach play anyone, anytime?

Great question.  I assume he will play anyone, anytime as they played several out of conference teams (including a top ranked SEC team) before conference play began!!  It seems to only have made them better as they are now in their conference (Div. I) semi-finals this weekend!!  I challenge my daughters to play each game to the best of their ability, no matter if it is the #1 team in their division or a much weaker opponent.  I try to teach them to be good winners AND losers. Life lessons.

[Impactdad22]

Oh and by the way, even though my daughter plays Div I, it is in a smaller conference and if they happen to win the conference tournament this weekend, they will make it to the NCAA Tournament where they will probably play a team like North Carolina, but you know what?? I wouldn't complain a bit!!

[1925Kee]

Oh and by the way, even though my daughter plays Div I, it is in a smaller conference and if they happen to win the conference tournament this weekend, they will make it to the NCAA Tournament where they will probably play a team like North Carolina, but you know what?? I wouldn't complain a bit!!

How would Lee University or Bryan College or Maryville College do against North Carolina? Obviously my point has nothing to do with your personal circumstance. Nothing at all. But thanks for sharing.

 

You sent your kids to a private school that will play "anyone, anytime." It does not matter to you that there are many schools and kids who are not in that position. Kids that can't, realistically, compete with anyone, anytime. 

 

In response to that reality, I say give them a realistic chance to compete. You say screw 'em. If they can't run with the big dogs, go home.

Edited November 6, 2014 by 1925Kee

[Impactdad22]

Ouch! 1925kee, I would suggest that if your girls can't "realistically, compete with anyone, anytime", you might want to consider a different sport or move! Soccer is a fun sport and there are going to be good teams and bad teams wherever you go. Heck, my oldest daughter's team when she was still in High School beat Franklin one year 1-0 and they were so unbelievably thrilled. The next year we lost 0-11! Didn't feel quite so good but they didn't pout and complain how life isn't fair! They learned from the defeat and moved on. Private v. Public had nothing to do with it. We are at a private school but the girls team has never won the State Championship! They will keep working hard and maybe next year will be the year! I wish you well in your soccer journey!

[1925Kee]

You continue to dodge my point. This has nothing to do with you personally, but you can't seem to get over yourself.

 

That fits the private school stereotype very well, by the way. Keep representin'.

[Wiredtowin1]

Some very good discussion with most folks staying civil. It is easy to see all sides of this if you take your blinders off and realize there is no easy solution. A couple of remarks. First I will state that my perspective. i am from the AAA, public school side and my daughter played HS and D1 club soccer.

 

* Regarding someone's comment that public school coaching and facilities are lacking in comparison to privates. Very broad comment. I have seen lots of public schools devoting more $$ into soccer over the last decade. Also, the top public schools have very good coaching--some with staffs of 2-3 which most clubs don't' have with many coaches having a club coaching background. Competition bears out that there is good soccer played at public AAA schools as well--I ran some numbers of coacht top ten publics records vs privates this year and it was something like 16-2-2 to include Bearden over ND, Mcminn over ND, Farragut over Briarcrest, Maryville over GPS, Franklin over BGA/Father Ryan etc.

 

* I feel for the A/AA's small publics who as the data shows basically are out-classed by the privates at tournament time. I also see the private school dilemma in not wanting to go separate or move to AAA.

 

* So let me throw out a possible solution. Continue districts as is. Once region tournament is over separate A/AA into A and AA. Privates go into the AA sub state brackets. Publics are given the option of going AA if they qualify at region OR dropping into the A bracket which is composed of all small public school teams. Some type of power rating would have to be devised to put the 16 top small publics into the A sub state round. The devil is in the details to come up with a way to do this but it should pass the TSSAA test because you will have another set of games to collect $$ from. And privates can compete with best privates and the top notch public AA schools who want to put their game at that level. I am thinking Greeneville this year/they were upset by CAK but should have been at state and would have been very competitive with ND and Catholic. AND, the small publics have a shot at a ring in A!

 

Let the slinging of arrows begin!! This is most likely moot because soccer means nil + .005 to TSSAA.

[1925Kee]

* So let me throw out a possible solution. Continue districts as is. Once region tournament is over separate A/AA into A and AA. Privates go into the AA sub state brackets. Publics are given the option of going AA if they qualify at region OR dropping into the A bracket which is composed of all small public school teams. Some type of power rating would have to be devised to put the 16 top small publics into the A sub state round. The devil is in the details to come up with a way to do this but it should pass the TSSAA test because you will have another set of games to collect $$ from. And privates can compete with best privates and the top notch public AA schools who want to put their game at that level. I am thinking Greeneville this year/they were upset by CAK but should have been at state and would have been very competitive with ND and Catholic. AND, the small publics have a shot at a ring in A!

Perfect! I'm behind this concept. Yes, it would take working out details, but it's definitely a step in the right direction.

[tarp]

Some very good discussion with most folks staying civil. It is easy to see all sides of this if you take your blinders off and realize there is no easy solution. A couple of remarks. First I will state that my perspective. i am from the AAA, public school side and my daughter played HS and D1 club soccer.

 

* Regarding someone's comment that public school coaching and facilities are lacking in comparison to privates. Very broad comment. I have seen lots of public schools devoting more $$ into soccer over the last decade. Also, the top public schools have very good coaching--some with staffs of 2-3 which most clubs don't' have with many coaches having a club coaching background. Competition bears out that there is good soccer played at public AAA schools as well--I ran some numbers of coacht top ten publics records vs privates this year and it was something like 16-2-2 to include Bearden over ND, Mcminn over ND, Farragut over Briarcrest, Maryville over GPS, Franklin over BGA/Father Ryan etc.

 

* I feel for the A/AA's small publics who as the data shows basically are out-classed by the privates at tournament time. I also see the private school dilemma in not wanting to go separate or move to AAA.

 

* So let me throw out a possible solution. Continue districts as is. Once region tournament is over separate A/AA into A and AA. Privates go into the AA sub state brackets. Publics are given the option of going AA if they qualify at region OR dropping into the A bracket which is composed of all small public school teams. Some type of power rating would have to be devised to put the 16 top small publics into the A sub state round. The devil is in the details to come up with a way to do this but it should pass the TSSAA test because you will have another set of games to collect $$ from. And privates can compete with best privates and the top notch public AA schools who want to put their game at that level. I am thinking Greeneville this year/they were upset by CAK but should have been at state and would have been very competitive with ND and Catholic. AND, the small publics have a shot at a ring in A!

 

Let the slinging of arrows begin!! This is most likely moot because soccer means nil + .005 to TSSAA.

As a Signal Mountain (public) AA parent (boy's though) the biggest disconnect comes at the MS time.  While the privates can continue to play with their clubs, public MS kids have to quit playing club games for their teams as soon as they are rostered.  The private MS teams don't belong to T$$AA so the kids can continue to play.  This year the local club tried to make their rostered kids' parents sign that the club kids wouldn't play MS until after select state tournament.  Makes recruiting easy for the privates.  Signal HS kids playing for GPS, McCallie, CCS, Baylor, Boyd Buc, etc would make up a good SM HS team.  But that's a demographic issue.  

 

Bottom line, the split is coming in 2 years.  T$$AA will make more money and just have to come up with another trophy or six.  Then the publics will start b&%^#ng about the magnets.  We'll continue to schedule those games.  Yes in soccer, the privates dominate, but we've won 5 of 6 girls' golf championships since the opening of the school, a state championship in football, volleyball, 2 cross country and a track championship in 6 six years since we've been open.  And we're a community of 10,000.  So if they take the privates out…and it will happen, we and the Magnets will be the "bullies".  

 

Strongly believe there will be a Division II - AA from an inside source.  One thing he said they were working on was how to reduce the travel.  Might play most of the same teams currently on your schedule and they rank teams.  (Like T$$AA does a good job of that!)  Last year according to rankings boys' soccer no. 1 and no. 2 met in first round.  

[Playerscoach]

Kee you completely dodge open enrollment and magnet schools "unfair advantage" over public schools. Do they not get to pick "players"?? Seems to me they tend to be better than most schools in a variety of sports?

 

Kee you have a fairly utopian way of looking at sports. Too many comments about what you believe is "unfair." You complain about facilities, coaching, $$$, etc... Yet you ignore the money spent on those items and the huge budgets in public schools. For instance Wison County, my county, has three new high schools with state of the art athletic facilities that are much much nicer than Franklin and Brentwood. I've also seen schools like East Robertsons fields and they are top notch as well. Do they have an advantage over other publics? Should they be reclassified?

 

Also, the arguments that the TSSAA shouldn't split the privates or they will leave has been made for over 20 years. It simply will not happen. The last thing private schools want is to create another governing body to regulate athletics. Maybe a few go rogue and drop out but for a variety of reasons it's unlikely.

 

Lastly, Kee you make assumptions about what private school parents want. As a parent of three children I can tell you the first thing I want is a great faith based experience and athletics is way down the list. If athletics was important I'd send my daughter to Mt Juliet for basketball or Williamson county for soccer. Instead, she will stay at the small private school in our community and enjoy the experience of playing sports regardless of wins or losses even though she will be outmanned in many games the next four years when she plays public and private schools. Maybe along the way she'll get 1000 points in basketball and 200 goals in soccer? Both are likely after her first year playing HS sports as an 8th grader but have never been a determining factor for us as parents or her when deciding where to go to school. Trophies and individual goals just aren't that important to us though.

[ballbasher30]

* So let me throw out a possible solution. Continue districts as is. Once region tournament is over separate A/AA into A and AA. Privates go into the AA sub state brackets. Publics are given the option of going AA if they qualify at region OR dropping into the A bracket which is composed of all small public school teams. Some type of power rating would have to be devised to put the 16 top small publics into the A sub state round. The devil is in the details to come up with a way to do this but it should pass the TSSAA test because you will have another set of games to collect $$ from. And privates can compete with best privates and the top notch public AA schools who want to put their game at that level. I am thinking Greeneville this year/they were upset by CAK but should have been at state and would have been very competitive with ND and Catholic. AND, the small publics have a shot at a ring in A!

 

This idea was thrown around by the TSSAA but with a slight change in the past. They would keep districts the same for regular season play as they are now, but once post season started all privates would be placed in division II and all publics in division I and then split into classes. Problem was deciding who played who and where in a short amount of time according to a source that was in the room so it was left to the side.

 

I find the mention of magnet schools and open enrollment curious. Magent schools choose their students by a lottery, everyone that puts their name in has the same odds of getting in. if you name does not get pick (its actually a number and not a name) then you dont get in. They do not know who they are admitting or denying when the numbe rcomes up. I see this different than private schools who can examine a student for every angle before saying yes you can come in or no you cannot not.They make the decison based on the student unlike a magent school who makes a decision based on chance.

 

Open enrollment is another thing. I am not an expert on open enrollment, but i think if you go to an open enrolled school you have to at least live in the county the school is located in. I also know if someone crosses county lines to go to school they can pay out of district tuition which to me is the same as a private school. TSSAA could make a rule that says if you let out of district students attend by by tuition like this, then you play in the highest public school class or you play in division II, wonder how that would change how schools do open enrollment.