A/AA Regions

[JOE23]

Was the pk in the beginning the right call, it's always hit or miss with the refs over here

however!  I think our goal that they called offsides was the wrong call.  I was on the line and I swear we were on.  I am waiting to see the film.

[DCURTIS]

So here's a new one...

 

One of our players receive a yellow card for a foul during regulation.  The card was warranted and the player leaves the game as is required.  About 10 minutes later we go to put the cautioned player back in the game and the referee comes over to inform us that if we put him back in the match he will immediately receive a red card because of "a verbal altercation with the 4th official from 10 minutes ago."  We do not put him back in the match.  We end up going to penalties and the referee reiterated that if we have him take a penalty kick he would be immediately thrown out of the game and the official refused to allow him to take a penalty kick even though he had only received a yellow card in the match.  The criteria for taking a penalty kick in a shootout are (1) they have to be on the roster, and (2) they cannot have been sent off (or in NFHS-speak, disqualified).  This player met both criteria but was explicitly denied an opportunity to take a penalty kick.

 

From page 86 of the NFHS 2014-15 Soccer Rules Book:

Tie-Breaking Procedure

A-3-b "Each coach will select any five players, including the goalkeeper, on or off the field (except those who have been disqualified) to take kicks.

So not being a referee in any fashion (no matter how much I often pretend to be on the sidelines), and having never heard of anything like this before, here is my guess. I suppose they felt like if he entered the pitch, after the sideline altercation for any reason, even PKs, they would be obligated to give him that second yellow/red which would have disqualified him and made him ineligible per A-3-b above. ????? You are right that's a new one.

[DCURTIS]

It was a great match.  By the end of those overtime periods, all 20 players from both sides looked like Rocky and Apollo at the end of Rocky I & II... giving everything plus a little more, nothing left in the tank, but all of them refusing to give up.

 

White House is a great program and Mark Lamberth is a class act.  Our schools have quite a history together on both the boys and girls' sides.  Last time the boys played, you knocked us out up at your place in the region semi 2-0 in 2011 about a month after we had beat you 5-0.  We won bigger, but you won when it really mattered!  I'll always remember those two region games up at White House with the girls (region semi in 2011, and region final in 2012) both of which went to overtime and were great matches.  Also remember you taking out Notre Dame the following week at state in 2012 when your girl up top who went to Carson Newman, ripped the winner from about 20 out midway through the second half.  I believe that was your daughters senior year, if memory serves me correct.  That was a great team.

 

All the best and after that match today, you have no reason to do anything but to hold your head up.

 

 

JFW

Wow, quite the memory! Yes, unfortunately I have been on the losing side of too many of those epic battles. After yesterday, both of my children have had their freshman season come to an end at the hands (feet) of the CPA Lions. I have a feeling it may not be the last time we meet with a lot on the line.

[DIIA]

Wow, quite the memory! Yes, unfortunately I have been on the losing side of too many of those epic battles. After yesterday, both of my children have had their freshman season come to an end at the hands (feet) of the CPA Lions. I have a feeling it may not be the last time we meet with a lot on the line.

You are more than likely correct.  That first freshman year in 2009, you lost your district final out at the Harpeth fields when you were the far better team and had to come to us for the region semi.  Still not sure how we pulled off 2011 (girls) and if I'm completely honest, we were a bit relieved you lost to CAK in the state semi the next year.  I don't know of too many people who would have wanted to face CAK rather than White House that year, but a some point your number is up and I have a feeling if you had taken out CAK that year, the final may have taken a similar road as yesterday.

 

All the best.

Edited May 18, 2015 by yAxis

[DIIA]

So not being a referee in any fashion (no matter how much I often pretend to be on the sidelines), and having never heard of anything like this before, here is my guess. I suppose they felt like if he entered the pitch, after the sideline altercation for any reason, even PKs, they would be obligated to give him that second yellow/red which would have disqualified him and made him ineligible per A-3-b above. ????? You are right that's a new one.

 

While an official has jurisdiction over the match and game site before, during, and after the match is played, they do not have the freedom to issue cards and ejections long after an inflation took place.

 

An example would be a player from team 1 commits a nasty challenge on a player from team 2 and the referee give advantage and allows play to continue.  At the next logical stoppage point (ball out of play, the team 2 attack is over and team 1 has the ball again, or goal is scored) the referee can then go back an issue a caution or send off the player from team 1 who committed the foul.  This cannot be done, say 10 minutes later in the match.

 

An example which places limits on reversing calls, would be if team 1 scores a goal but had 12 players on the field at the time.  If the referee discovers this, the goal is to be disallowed, provided that team 2 has not kicked off after the goal.  Once there is a kickoff after a goal, the goal stands.  This is just like in football where the video replay challenge has to come before the next play.  A call, goal, or disciplinary action must take place within a reasonable amount of time of the incident.  If this restriction did not exist, you could have an official decide that a foul which took place 10 minutes ago should have been called and then award a free (or penalty) kick.  Same with a goal, disallowing a goal or any other call.

Edited May 18, 2015 by yAxis

[DCURTIS]

While an official has jurisdiction over the match and game site before, during, and after the match is played, they do not have the freedom to issue cards and ejections long after an inflation took place.

 

An example would be a player from team 1 commits a nasty challenge on a player from team 2 and the referee give advantage and allows play to continue.  At the next logical stoppage point (ball out of play, the team 2 attack is over and team 1 has the ball again, or goal is scored) the referee can then go back an issue a caution or send off the player from team 1 who committed the foul.  This cannot be done, say 10 minutes later in the match.

 

An example which places limits on reversing calls, would be if team 1 scores a goal but had 12 players on the field at the time.  If the referee discovers this, the goal is to be disallowed, provided that team 2 has not kicked off after the goal.  Once there is a kickoff after a goal, the goal stands.  This is just like in football where the video replay challenge has to come before the next play.  A call, goal, or disciplinary action must take place within a reasonable amount of time of the incident.  If this restriction did not exist, you could have an official decide that a foul which took place 10 minutes ago should have been called and then award a free (or penalty) kick.  Same with a goal, disallowing a goal or any other call.

It really is a moot point now, but I can only guess that much like waiting until the next appropriate stoppage to go back and issue a card or warning to a player for an action in the previous run of play, the official felt obligated to wait until the player was eligible to receive a card (back on the field of play) in order to administer the discipline. It is my understanding that the official cannot give a card to a player not in the game, only to the coach. I do not know how this aligns with the rule book, but it seems to me this had to be his logic.

[ViewFromCheapSeats]

It really is a moot point now, but I can only guess that much like waiting until the next appropriate stoppage to go back and issue a card or warning to a player for an action in the previous run of play, the official felt obligated to wait until the player was eligible to receive a card (back on the field of play) in order to administer the discipline. It is my understanding that the official cannot give a card to a player not in the game, only to the coach. I do not know how this aligns with the rule book, but it seems to me this had to be his logic.

 

No. Any bench player can be given a yellow or red card. If the referee is not able to determine the offending bench player, the coach is to receive the card. So in the above situation, the referee could have given a second yellow to the player on the bench.

[DIIA]

DCurtis is right, it's a moot point now. DC, most certainly don't want to come off as whining, especially since we won. I was more disappointed in the tone he used towards many of the players on both teams. I specifically recall him screaming at a White House player in the first half during the run of play right in front of our bench who had done nothing wrong.

 

It was a great match. Hope we get to play again sometime maybe with a little less on the line.

[DCURTIS]

You are more than likely correct.  That first freshman year in 2009, you lost your district final out at the Harpeth fields when you were the far better team and had to come to us for the region semi.  Still not sure how we pulled off 2011 (girls) and if I'm completely honest, we were a bit relieved you lost to CAK in the state semi the next year.  I don't know of too many people who would have wanted to face CAK rather than White House that year, but a some point your number is up and I have a feeling if you had taken out CAK that year, the final may have taken a similar road as yesterday.

 

All the best.

Too funny, are you sure you are not a fellow parent of that group of girls masquerading as a CPA guy? Your thinking is exactly how I/we felt. I still feel that if our girls had managed to get to State in any of those 3 previous seasons, that CAK game in 2012 might have gone another way. I don't think our girls ever truly believed they could play with CAK and had some of the "just happy to be there" stuff going on. You guys, on the other hand, most of em probably would have promised their first born to get another shot at, for better or worse. Fun times...

 

Best Regards!

[BigG]

Hats off to White House.  What a classy bunch of guys who came in and gave us all we could handle.  I have known their coach for years back in the Lenoir City tournaments in the early 2000's.  Great guy.  Loves his players.

 

WH never gave up.  Played their hearts out.  Scored 2 GREAT headers off of crosses.  #45 was deadly up top.

 

PK shootout is an agonizing way to win AND lose, but the game has to end sometime.  All the players on the field were dead at the end of the match.

 

We are fortunate to be moving on.  

 

Gotta love play offs.  Anything can happen.

 

Well done, White House.

[DIIA]

Too funny, are you sure you are not a fellow parent of that group of girls masquerading as a CPA guy? Your thinking is exactly how I/we felt. I still feel that if our girls had managed to get to State in any of those 3 previous seasons, that CAK game in 2012 might have gone another way. I don't think our girls ever truly believed they could play with CAK and had some of the "just happy to be there" stuff going on. You guys, on the other hand, most of em probably would have promised their first born to get another shot at, for better or worse. Fun times...

 

Best Regards!

 

There is something about a group of players having been there before.  We all know the scene in Hoosiers where Gene Hackman measures the free throw line, the height of the rim, etc., but even with it just being another soccer field, the first time can be daunting.  I know the second year (2012) our girls made it to the final match felt completely different than the year before.  The thing you had going for you that year (besides the fact that you had a great team) was that everyone overlooked White House.  We stayed and watched your match against Notre Dame and I knew 5 minutes in that you were going to send them packing and you gave CAK a good run for their money the next day too.

 

Next time we play each other, please come up and say hello, it would be great to meet you.  I'll be the guy either working with the goalkeepers or have a camera (or two) strapped to me.

 

JFW

[PJM]

Just curious...will the two red carded players for CPA who were ejected in the sectional game be eligible to play in the opening round today against Central?