NFHS Rule Changes

[glock22]

I have a question for you.  If there is a dispute on how many pitches were previously thrown and how much rest a kid has had, who do the coaches take the dispute to?  The umpire?  How is the umpire going to know if the pitch charts are correct or not?  The umpire is being asked to rule on something they have no knowledge of.

 

This is going to be a mess.

Somebody answer this question, please.

[SuperSport]

Somebody answer this question, please.

There is no answer... The T$$AA does not care and will probably come up with something stupid like taking an average of the two disputed pitch counts.

[ballbasher30]

according to the pitch count rule sheet on the TSSAA website it says:

 

3. Highly recommended that a coach check with a coach on the opposing team between each half

inning to make sure pitch counts are in congruent. (the same )

4. Home team would be final correct count.

5. Both teams would sign documentation pitch form at the end of each game.

[DiamondDad]

I think we're also going to see longer games due to this rule. If a kid is right at 24 pitches with 2 outs, we're going to see some pitching changes in a lot of spots so he can go again tomorrow. I think you see a lot of kids on the (team imposed) pitch count fence and coaches want them to dig a little and get that last batter to finish an inning, we won't see as much of that any more if those 5 -7 pitches impact when he can get back out there again. 

[ksgovols]

I have a question for you.  If there is a dispute on how many pitches were previously thrown and how much rest a kid has had, who do the coaches take the dispute to?  The umpire?  How is the umpire going to know if the pitch charts are correct or not?  The umpire is being asked to rule on something they have no knowledge of.

 

This is going to be a mess.

Each coach and the umpire in chief sign off on the pitch counts and the respective coaches take the paperwork with them to the next game.  Pre game, next umpire in chief and the 2 coaches look to see who's eligible to pitch and how many pitches they have.  It's not any more paperwork than what it takes to get an umpire paid.  If a coach wants to cheat at this he probably can.  I'll just say it's usually somebody sitting on his side of the dugout that will turn him in.  If Little League baseball coaches can do this, I would hope high school coaches could.

 

My son's summer coach is already doing this and he did it as a high school coach.  He keeps up with how many pitches his kids have and has a day's rest policy similar to this one that he believes in.  He's also got about a 4" scar on his right elbow from his Tommy John surgery years ago.

[clarkgriswold]

Each coach and the umpire in chief sign off on the pitch counts and the respective coaches take the paperwork with them to the next game.  Pre game, next umpire in chief and the 2 coaches look to see who's eligible to pitch and how many pitches they have.  It's not any more paperwork than what it takes to get an umpire paid.  If a coach wants to cheat at this he probably can.  I'll just say it's usually somebody sitting on his side of the dugout that will turn him in.  If Little League baseball coaches can do this, I would hope high school coaches could.

 

My son's summer coach is already doing this and he did it as a high school coach.  He keeps up with how many pitches his kids have and has a day's rest policy similar to this one that he believes in.  He's also got about a 4" scar on his right elbow from his Tommy John surgery years ago.

IMO this needed to be done. The old rule was just too much for pitchers and some coaches did abuse this. And I don't think in the higher classifications this will be an issue because a lot of schools have a varsity and a true jv team. The problem is for the mid to smaller schools who have kids regularly play varsity and jv because by the new rule the JV games count towards this as well. For sure something had to be done. The part I don't agree with is the home team being the official counter. This should be done by the field umpire and he informs the coach after each half inning how many pitches he threw that inning. The home team already is responsible for official book and there is usually no problem there but imagine if the counter is off a few pitches and the home team has a kid at the limit but the visitor says he has one more batter and your in a close district game. Just think the count needs to be kept by an umpire so if they mess up the count we are use to them making a few bad calls! just kidding for the most part umpires do a solid job. I was wondering does it say what would happen if a coach forgot his forms? I'm sure with this being new this is bound to happen. With so many games played on back to back days the pre game meeting with umpires may take a while now to sort who can and can't pitch! lol good posts guys good opinions all.

[catsbackr]

IMO this needed to be done. The old rule was just too much for pitchers and some coaches did abuse this. And I don't think in the higher classifications this will be an issue because a lot of schools have a varsity and a true jv team. The problem is for the mid to smaller schools who have kids regularly play varsity and jv because by the new rule the JV games count towards this as well. For sure something had to be done. The part I don't agree with is the home team being the official counter. This should be done by the field umpire and he informs the coach after each half inning how many pitches he threw that inning. The home team already is responsible for official book and there is usually no problem there but imagine if the counter is off a few pitches and the home team has a kid at the limit but the visitor says he has one more batter and your in a close district game. Just think the count needs to be kept by an umpire so if they mess up the count we are use to them making a few bad calls! just kidding for the most part umpires do a solid job. I was wondering does it say what would happen if a coach forgot his forms? I'm sure with this being new this is bound to happen. With so many games played on back to back days the pre game meeting with umpires may take a while now to sort who can and can't pitch! lol good posts guys good opinions all.

I completely disagree with the highlighted.  The umpires do not need to get involved in this process at all.  The umpires have enough to do

[clarkgriswold]

I completely disagree with the highlighted.  The umpires do not need to get involved in this process at all.  The umpires have enough to do

 

What does the field umpire have to do that he couldn't keep a clicker in his pocket and count every half inning? You would rather a manager or a parent do it for the home team? Most programs in the smaller classes have 1 or 2 coaches at best? Don't think this would prohibit them from call balks, safe and catch in the field? This isn't basketball it's not like they couldn't keep up. The problem is they do not want the responsibility. Last thing you want is coaches arguing with each other in a tight game over pitch counts or worse home coach telling the visiting coach he needs to remove his pitcher..think that should come from the umpire. Just my opinion though

[UTRok]

I would think both teams keep pitch count for both pitchers and give to umpire at each half inning. To me it's a very simple function that has been going on in rec and tournament ball for years. You would think that if rec coaches and tournament coaches do it with minimal issue it shouldn't be an issue at the high school level. We're talking about the safety of our high school pitchers just do what ever it takes. With the number of arm issues from middle school age pitchers and up its long over due.

[catsbackr]

You've obviously never umpired.

 

The field umpire has plenty to do on each an every pitch.  Batter's actions, runner's positioning, check swing decisions, fielders positioning, etc.  And, what do you do if the umpire were to lose count?  And what do you do if either or both of the teams are keeping pitch counts too and there is a difference in their counts and the umpire's?  The teams are already counting pitches, so why not let them continue to count?

 

The problem is not that the umpires do not want the responsibility, the problem is that this is a "feed good" decision probably affecting less than 1% of HS kids playing baseball.  And remember, this is not a rule, it is a mandate handed down from NFHS for each state to establish their own pitch count guidelines.

 

Just as you said, in my opinion, this is much, much ado about nothing.  Very, very few kids are affected by throwing too many pitches in high school baseball.  The problem is that so many kids play baseball year round and do not have much if any down time to rest their arms.  They go from playing HS ball to select summer ball to select/HS Fall ball.  No rest...but, just my opinion.

[glock22]

Hey, what about the 3 warnings prior to ejecting a coach.  Verbal, written, restriction, another warning, then ejection?  What the point?

[riverdaleman]

I understand putting a pitch count in place the problem isn't with TSSAA coaches the problem is with the travel ball. You have kids playing every weekend in the summer.  You want to help these kids it starts with parents at home and not allowing their kids to pitch curve balls starting at 9 years old.