nocryinginbaseball Posted March 28, 2017 Report Share Posted March 28, 2017 Not crying, hence the user name. Looking for opinions from coaches and umpires alike. Opposing coach questions left handed pick to first between innings. Field umpire walks over to mound and draws what he thinks is a 45 degree line. Tells pitcher not to step over or it is a balk. Field umpire goes even farther by standing 6-7 feet behind the mound in front of the second basemen with a runner on. Sole focus was on the pitchers foot. I know some will say teach your kids how to pick properly. College coaches have told him it's a great move. It's an understood rule in baseball that a three man crew may get that call correct but my question is about umpiring integrity? What are your thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazzyness Posted March 28, 2017 Report Share Posted March 28, 2017 Bush league or not, nowhere in any rulebook does it mention anything about "45 degrees" in relation to a legal or illegal pick-off. It irks me so bad when coaches/fans/umpires start talking about "45 degrees." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imontheline Posted March 28, 2017 Report Share Posted March 28, 2017 That's going to be plate umpire's call. He has the best view of a lefty gaining ground on his pick to first, with either 2, 3 or 4 man crew. There is a whole lotta wrong going on with drawing a line like that. I don't think his integrity should be in question. Maybe his experience is minimal and his training is not what it could be. I'd bet your team's coach has already contacted the assignor and civilly discussed what happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catsbackr Posted March 29, 2017 Report Share Posted March 29, 2017 I'm not sure where you get "Bush" league out of the scenario you described. The complaining by the coach, in and of itself, is not "Bush" league. The umpire drawing the line on the mound is an umpire simply making up rules. Imontheline nailed it, it is the plate umpire's call. The pitcher has to gain distance and direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FinalCountdown Posted March 29, 2017 Report Share Posted March 29, 2017 It is definitely fine for a coach to bring the possible illegal move to the umpire's attention. However, the umpires should not change anything about their normal routine unless they were doing it wrong from the beginning. The umpire should continue to monitor the pitcher for illegal pick off moves every time just as normal. No need for a drawing or the 2nd base umpire to move out of his routine spot to focus on this issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warmachine7954 Posted March 29, 2017 Report Share Posted March 29, 2017 (edited) That's going to be plate umpire's call. He has the best view of a lefty gaining ground on his pick to first, with either 2, 3 or 4 man crew. There is a whole lotta wrong going on with drawing a line like that. I don't think his integrity should be in question. Maybe his experience is minimal and his training is not what it could be. I'd bet your team's coach has already contacted the assignor and civilly discussed what happened. Either umpire can call a balk. Usually, the split is plate umpire has above the belt and base umpire has below the belt. The 45 degree thing is weird. It's all about deception of the runner and gaining an advantage. Edited March 29, 2017 by warmachine7954 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nocryinginbaseball Posted March 30, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 The assigning umpire has been contacted. I in no way meant the coach was out of line. Good coaches gain every advantage they can. This umpire was not a rookie and to me tried to make himself bigger than the game. Not the first time I have seen such behavior. My only reason for bringing this to the surface was more and more we see umpires showing little or no respect for the game and rule interpretations that are pulled out of a hat. Thanks for everyone's input and for keeping it civil. Thank you to the umpires who call the game and try to stay invisible. It's not about you, it's about the kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cocheese Posted March 30, 2017 Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 Drawing that line just sets you up for conflict later on, and it's an incorrect interpretation. That's bush league to me. Any seasoned umpire knows not to create markings on the field that are not already there. That will always only make the job harder. It's never been in an umpires job description to mark the field. You definitely shouldn't invent field markings either. I umpired with a lot of guys, and a few gals, that played ball their whole life and "thought" they knew the rules. I was once one of those. Some take the time to open the rule book and discover a lot of things they've always "known" are not so. Some just keep on doing it wrong. Best thing to do is to notify the assigner and let him correct the umpire....hopefully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catsbackr Posted March 30, 2017 Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 (edited) Either umpire can call a balk. Usually, the split is plate umpire has above the belt and base umpire has below the belt. The 45 degree thing is weird. It's all about deception of the runner and gaining an advantage. You're right, either umpire can call a balk. But, there is absolutely no such thing as the highlighted. No umpire school, CCA or NFHS mechanics teach "above/below" the belt for balk responsibilities. If you see a balk, you call a balk, period. The statement was also made that "Good coaches gain every advantage they can." That is true, that's why the umpires are out there, because coaches will cheat if they can. Edited March 30, 2017 by catsbackr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warmachine7954 Posted March 31, 2017 Report Share Posted March 31, 2017 You're right, either umpire can call a balk. But, there is absolutely no such thing as the highlighted. No umpire school, CCA or NFHS mechanics teach "above/below" the belt for balk responsibilities. If you see a balk, you call a balk, period. The statement was also made that "Good coaches gain every advantage they can." That is true, that's why the umpires are out there, because coaches will cheat if they can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitterfan Posted April 3, 2017 Report Share Posted April 3, 2017 From an umpires point of view... With a runner on first or first and third, the position you described is the correct position for the field umpire whose sole purpose is to watch the pitcher for a balk until the pitch is made or a pickoff it attempted. The 45 degree is an understood baseball norm. If you look at rule 6-2-4 ( it states any movement by the non pivot foot that is not directly towards a base when fainting is a balk. So the 45 degrees works in your favor. Anything not directly to first according to the rule book can be pegged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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