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TeeterTot

New club team

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Congrats Mama2two on your decision! No doubt youth sports has exploded and is big business. It's easy to lose focus that the main reason we sign up is to see our kids compete and be part of a team.

See you on the courts!

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I know a family that played C2 last year and absolutely loved it.  I am excited about that club.  I don't know any of the coaches or directors, but am anxious to see how it goes. 

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With State Finals winding down a few of the high school players switching clubs have started texting old teammates that they are going to TPV because it's free. In my opinion, that's probably not the smartest thing to do, telling people that it's free. How would you like to be one of their new teammates who paid the full amount and are sitting on the bench now?

I am also curious if the "free play" concept affects any amateurism status. They are accepting preferential treatment (a benefit of paid dues by others or no dues) for playing a sport.

I don't know the answer but it's definitely something to consider.

Anyone have thoughts on this?

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It has no affect on eligibility. AAU basetball for most high level kids is free.  Let’s see how it all plays out. I’m sure a handful will go. It will give others an opportunity.  The thing that I hate is that it’s going to break up a top 20 team that has mostly been together for several years.  

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Clifford20 I sure hope the club volleyball scene doesn't turn into AAU Basketball and the sense of entitlement that it created. The shoe companies and big business has caused a mess of things in basketball right now.

https://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/2018/02/25/college-basketball-recruiting-scandal-system-traps-players/370215002/

https://www.theshadowleague.com/story/is-aau-hoops-really-killing-the-sport-of-basketball

https://www.kirkusreviews.com/book-reviews/dan-wetzel/sole-influence/

Plenty more links out there like these.

Volleyball isn't there yet, but the basketball corruption had to start somewhere.  Sadly, give it time and a few more recruitments like the recent events discussed on this thread and volleyball in our area may get there sooner than later.

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VBD I have to chime in here. You clearly don’t like TPV and are doing your best to convince people to steer clear of that club. Maybe you’re on the Alliance Board. Maybe you’re an Alliance coach. But this talk of corruption and compromised amateurism is too much. Girls volleyball is far removed from the world of big time men’s basketball. Outside of parents, some overzealous, there is no worry that the FBI is going to be raiding Gothic Court because the pressure to recruit the best high school players is leading to illegal activity. The interest is just not at the same level. And whatever both clubs are doing or not doing are well within the rules.  I know both Directors and both are beyond reproach.  

I’ve been around since Impact and Select formed an “Alliance.”  Saw Nashville One die and Club West rise as a temporary challenger. What is happening is nothing more than the continued evolution of club volleyball in middle Tennessee. I, for one, hope that TPV sticks and Alliance continues to rise to the challenge. (As they have as evidenced by their recent emphasis on highlighting their players on and off the court accomplishments.) Because the real winners are the players and their parents when the competition between clubs is real. I would rather Nashville have two plus viable clubs similar to Louisville, Cincinnati, Indianapolis etc than what we’ve experienced the past half decade. Talk about a sense of entitlement! There was no reason to worry or truly work to get better because there wasn’t a serious challenger to get the top players.   

There are a myriad of reasons beyond waived dues why some top players have or will defect. If it works out as I hope it will, both clubs will be fine and there will be a rise in the level of play throughout middle Tennessee because the opportunities to train and compete at the highest levels will double. Everyone wins in that scenario. 

Edited by SummaryJudgment

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I tend to agree with SJ. More competition is better. It should over time help the mid state talent and development. There will be a handful of kids that will get a new opportunity to play at a higher level.  If the parents think it’s best for that kids, then go. If it’s a bad experience they will come back the next year and the other kid will switch to the other club. Make no mistake, this will help mid state volleyball which needs it. Overall the volleyball for the mid state isn’t good. There are 5-6 really good programs who could not compete in other vball states.  It’s all good. This all plays out. 

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SJ & Clifford, don't get me wrong, I have no problem with the competition side of it. I would love to see the day that our area can support 8-10 clubs similar to Indianapolis. The more kids playing volleyball in our area is better for the overall product. I am not on any board or a coach, I am just an old guy who has been around the club scene for the last 9-10 years. I have friends who are coaches and parents at all the clubs dating back to the Nashville One days, Ethos, Club West, C2, Mid TN, and yes, TPV & Alliance.

The previous comment was not an indictment that volleyball in Middle TN is like AAU Basketball, just a simple nod to what happens when things get out of control & go to the extreme. I am simply putting out there information for comment what has been talked in the stands leading up to this week's State Championships.

I hope every kid & family that wants to participate in club volleyball in our area finds a club that fits them. I have never strayed from saying "make the decision that's best for your family." Whether that is playing time, strength of team, tournament schedule, location, cost, coach, whatever, make the choice that works for you. In the end, if your player improves her skill and has fun while doing it then you made the right choice. The more kids playing, especially at a younger age, will do nothing but improve the game in our area. Clubs come and go, kids switch clubs and coaches change, this will always be the case. The one constant in club sports is that everything changes.

The hope is more playing opportunites with more clubs will improve the overall product on the court. The reality is unless the number of kids playing volleyball in our area grows to the number that a similar population of Indianapolis has, the product might get spread thin and watered down. We are in an area where girls' basketball is strong and kids choose basketball over volleyball.  Volleyball numbers are growing but nowhere near the level of a Louisville or Indy, one day maybe.

I agree, continue to strengthen the product and everyone wins, kids, clubs, families, coaches, and fans.

Congratulations to our (5) new State Champs, Loretto, Portland, Brentwood, Knox Webb, Briarcrest!

See you on the courts!

 

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As another volleyball dad, I hear all the talk as well. The 'choosing a club/invite/tryout' process has been very stressful for my family in the past.  It is an ever-evolving process. Clubs come and clubs go. What is hot one day will be ice cold the next. Just wait. In another 5 years TPV will have split into 2-3 other 'new' clubs. I honestly haven't heard many gushing things about them except the rumors from high-level players that are getting perks. From the people I know who went there it seems like it's a little much for the young/developing player. People are flocking there cause it's the new/hot thing, but when it cools down the numbers will fall, coaches will separate...its all good...like you said, Everybody just needs to do what is best for their own kid.  

I would love to send my kid to Alliance but I live 40+ miles away and I don't want my teenager making that drive 3-4 days a week. Not to mention the cost. My oldest is not a D1 prospect or I might reconsider. She has been contacted by DIII and NAIA schools and so we are just fine at the smaller club we have chosen where we get lots of personal attention and she will have fun and continue to learn and improve. 

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I'll admit my bias, but it isn't based on the local leadership (Dan, Trigg, those guys... I really have no idea who they are) or behavior. If I had a club player, she would not play for TPV because of the relationship with the Chicago parent organization Sports Performance, whose founder and leader Rick Butler is an unapologetic rapist of his players. Any dollar spent with TPV validates him, his business model, and eventually lands in one of his accounts.

The counter-arguments are plenty:

  • "That was a long time ago"
  • "I don't believe the allegations"
  • "Look how successful the club and its affiliates have been"
  • "He doesn't have any role with the TPV organization, so it shouldn't matter"
  • (Most common) "I don't care"

I don't really blame families who don't know the story and don't know the connection. For last decade or so, the Company Line with Sports Performance has been "It didn't happen". Before that, it was "It happened, but the kids were 18 so it was ok" or "It happened, the kids initiated the relationships." I'm sure if the TPV leadership was asked, they'd say something similar. But that doesn't mean the relationship between Rick Butler and TPV doesn't exist, and that doesn't mean that TPV success doesn't benefit him.

Parents and players who know the link and play for TPV anyway... that's indefensible. 

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37 minutes ago, Osage said:

I'll admit my bias, but it isn't based on the local leadership (Dan, Trigg, those guys... I really have no idea who they are) or behavior. If I had a club player, she would not play for TPV because of the relationship with the Chicago parent organization Sports Performance, whose founder and leader Rick Butler is an unapologetic rapist of his players. Any dollar spent with TPV validates him, his business model, and eventually lands in one of his accounts.

The counter-arguments are plenty:

  • "That was a long time ago"
  • "I don't believe the allegations"
  • "Look how successful the club and its affiliates have been"
  • "He doesn't have any role with the TPV organization, so it shouldn't matter"
  • (Most common) "I don't care"

I don't really blame families who don't know the story and don't know the connection. For last decade or so, the Company Line with Sports Performance has been "It didn't happen". Before that, it was "It happened, but the kids were 18 so it was ok" or "It happened, the kids initiated the relationships." I'm sure if the TPV leadership was asked, they'd say something similar. But that doesn't mean the relationship between Rick Butler and TPV doesn't exist, and that doesn't mean that TPV success doesn't benefit him.

Parents and players who know the link and play for TPV anyway... that's indefensible. 

Glad you can judge whats indefensible from your high horse.  Has Rick Butler ever been down to train the TPV girls in Franklin?  Has he had any interaction with the existing girls?  I have always been with Alliance but Alliance is loosing a lot of traction with players and this argument is THE BEST TACTIC they have to try and stop the migration.  Sad you base your opinion on a local club when you admit to not even knowing who the directors are.  That's either your bias or your ignorance blinding you.  

Edited by TeeterTot
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9 minutes ago, TeeterTot said:

Glad you can judge whats indefensible from your high horse.  Has Rick Butler ever been down to train the TPV girls in Franklin?  Has he had any interaction with the existing girls?  I have always been with Alliance but Alliance is loosing a lot of traction with players and this argument is THE BEST TACTIC they have to try and stop the migration.  Sad you base your opinion on a local club when you admit to not even knowing who the directors are.  That's either your bias or your ignorance blinding you.  

I didn't say anything about Alliance.

I admit my bias, and I admit where it comes from. I admit I don't know the TPV leadership; they are irrelevant to me, and everything I know about them is second-hand. No, to answer your question, as far as I know, Rick Butler hasn't been to Franklin to train TPV kids. But has he interacted with TPV kids? Absolutely! Busloads of TPV kids were driven up last year to be trained by him and his staff in his facility.

My point is pretty simple: the fact that a business relationship exists between TPV and Rick Butler is the end of the story. Families must make a clear-eyed choice. You either invest in / support him and his business, or don't.

I don't understand how a parent can know the history here, recognize that the link exists between TPV and Rick Butler, and still pay club dues that enrich an unapologetic rapist. I don't think this is a high-horse position to take, and I'm interested in why you'd say otherwise. 

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