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TeeterTot

New club team

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I am anxious to see how it plays out as well.  I am less concerned about the facility and more about coaching.  There will def be moving back and forth from both sides.  Honestly, it makes the product better when that happens.  With the new club director at Alliance, I think things will be fine. 

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On 5/1/2018 at 9:23 AM, SummaryJudgment said:

Actually no. Alliance was kicked out due to directorial issues. TPV is not organizing anything. They joined the SAVL in order to guarantee some quality competition to play against. The problem is the top clubs in the SAVL don't send their top teams to those power league tournaments. Again, why it will be interesting to see what they do next year.

The idea that Alliance wanted to return to the Southern Power League and were not allowed to is nonsense.

That said, the league predates TPV by a few years. It's an implementation of the idea Rick Butler had up in Chicago, to host a league that wouldn't be subject USA Volleyball oversight. It works up there, mostly, because the SPRI teams are so strong. Good teams attract good teams. The Mideast Power League (which K2 has participated in) is pretty strong, too.

Southern Performance (the SPRI Satellite in Birmingham) was the original host club of the SPL. The idea is the same, but the reality is a very different thing. Birmingham is not suburban Chicago, and the Southern Performance coaching staff doesn't have the depth Chicago does. Hence, lots and lots of very low level teams. Who wants to compete against them? Other very low level teams.

I think the Southern Power League had a chance if A5 had joined.

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On 4/30/2018 at 1:08 PM, RutherfordCoVolleyball1 said:

The Showdown in the Smokies tournament just ended...

 

Now, my personal opinions:

This was the first opportunity to see Alliance, TPV, and Ethos at one location. Tennessee Performance Volleyball is definitely better and deeper at the 13U level than Alliance. Many open players left Alliance and are playing on the TPV 13-1 and -2 teams this year.

 

14s is simply a weak talent pool in mid-Tenn. Both Alliance Mizuno 14U and TPV 14U Zulu had injuries to key players, but neither team has performed well this year against National-level competition.

 

Alliance is clearly better than the other mid-Tenn clubs at 15U and 16U. Ethos is stronger than TPV at 15U and likely at 16U as well.

 

Final observation, K2 Adidas placed into Open Gold in every division. Middle Tennessee volleyball is still lagging behind K2, KiVA, A5, Munciana, etc.

The TPV 13-1 team is comprised almost entirely of last year's Alliance 12-1 team. Alliance badly mismanaged that group last year, and I don't think they were surprised to see them transfer. TPV is right to treat that team as a bit of a flagship, they'll be Open-relevant over the coming years.

Speaking of Open-relevant, the only other TPV team that looks like it should be playing Open is the 17's team. Once again, we are talking a group of mainly Alliance transfers, a mix of first and second team kids from last year's teams.

No other TPV team should be playing Open, and I question why they do. Nobody is getting any better losing (or winning) games 25-6. And I know TPV has a unique training model that should, theoretically, differentiate its kids over time, but the gap between TPV and the rest of the field in Knoxville is huge. I don't think TPV did itself any favors.

K2's depth is at the older ages. It's real. And it is about to age out. To put them in the same level of depth as Munciana, KiVA and A5 is silly. Once the 2019 group graduates, I'd consider them more aligned with MidTen / A5 Chattanooga, top to bottom.

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I completely agree with you Osage.  Good post.  K2 is not close to those programs.  I think K2 and Alliance are very similar.  I do think K2 15's team is solid and will get better with time.  I think Alliance 15 team could be really good as well-they need another hitter badly.  I thought the 16-1 Alliance team really had a chance to really good team, but they just haven't been consistent enough. 

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Surprisingly a great tournament at AGame this weekend.  All teams attending were Nationals bound in a couple weeks so this was a good tune-up.  A5's top teams, Alliance, Circle City, Triangle....just to name a few.  Two year age group so the younger ages in the pools had a tough time but faced amazing competition.  

Circle City 13 won the 12-13 age group

A5 15-1 won 14-15 age group

A5 16-1 won the 17-18 age group

 

On another topic, I talked to TPV parents who were not happy with tournament results, competition, and how teams were created.  Per these parents, TPV plans to have more training and less tournaments next year which sounds horrible to these parents.  It'll be interesting to see what happens since TPV has the facility while Alliance has the talent.

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On 5/1/2018 at 8:56 AM, SummaryJudgment said:

That was the TPV 132 team that beat the Alliance 131s in three. And while I agree that I've heard some rumblings about having to play the same teams over and over, Alliance did the same thing a few years back when they were in the Power League. I heard lots of complaints then about playing Choo Choo and Southern Performance over and over. What will be interesting is to see if TPV tries something different next year.

In that same tournament it took the TPV "131" team 3 long sets to beat their "132" team.  The same Alliance 13-1 team that took TPV 132 team to 3 sets lost to the Alliance 12-1 team yesterday in straight sets for their second win in 2 tries against them.  Overall, the 13 age group is easily the weakest age group across Middle Tennessee.  They have hard workers and good coaches, just not the talent.   

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46 minutes ago, TeeterTot said:

On another topic, I talked to TPV parents who were not happy with tournament results, competition, and how teams were created.  Per these parents, TPV plans to have more training and less tournaments next year which sounds horrible to these parents.  It'll be interesting to see what happens since TPV has the facility while Alliance has the talent.

 

I wonder if TPV shot itself in the foot with early messaging about competitiveness. It set some awfully high expectations, posting comparisons on their website showing the Chicago club's success, comparing it with Alliance and K2 and others. They also then aligned themselves with that organization by trucking up a bunch of kids and their families for a clinic. The message was clear: come play for us, and this is what you can expect.

You set expectations like that, you'd better deliver. But with the lack of competitiveness, even in the face of a weak schedule, I don't wonder that a lot of TPV parents feel like they were sold a bill of goods. It will be interesting next fall to see whether this reveals itself in the school seasons.

I don't hate the TPV training model, per se, but you can't implement it without the depth of coaches they have in Chicago.

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Instead of responding to each post, I'll just put all my thoughts here. Lots of good stuff above.

In my experience the volleyball world is all relative and the perspective of each parent regardless of the club can change week to week. I think the reason TPV is traveling less next year is because they will be able to host more tournaments at A Game....assuming they are in the building. If memory serves me right, I think they only had one home tournament. Alliance had many more. It could be a reversal of fortunes with the two clubs in regards to travel next year. No one knows for sure at this point. But the TPV parents I've spoken to are thrilled with not being on the road to tourneys and/ or out of town scrimmages so much next season.

That was quite a coup for Alliance and the new director pulling in all those great ones teams/ Clubs that had not been to Franklin before. This is somewhat indirect proof of what was labeled nonsense above. Relationships matter and not toying with seeding, standings, etc. helps get you invited back to the party year after year. Or gets people to come to your party. Alliance is clearly in great hands now and the future is very bright. I just hope they have a new home soon.

I find it interesting that two separate posters have labeled either the 13s or the 14s as the weakest group in middle TN, I think it's too early to tell. We've all seen those 3s and 4s players in these younger ages shoot up to ones teams and college opportunities. The girls at these young ages develop so differently. Two of the most awkward 7th graders I ever saw were Logan and Avri. They're obviously special talents, but there are many more like them who didn't seem to be much as middle schoolers and are now college bound.

I understand it's fun to play who beat who as a way of determining which club has the better players. I do it myself. But again, it's all relative and volleyball is so weird. It even happens within the same club. A few years ago I saw the Alliance 152s beat the 161s right after the 162s has just beaten the 151s with Logan, Tori,  and Andrea. Those twos teams had some players who were ones players the next year; and there is always an extra motivation when playing the chosen ones in the club. But I didn't take it for anything more than it was. It all sorts itself out and anything can happen match to match. Same goes for matches between clubs. That's volleyball. As for who is better, I'd say TPV in the 13s, split in the 14s, Alliance in the 15-18s. Pretty much a no-duh I know. I do hope we get to see the two clubs play each other more in the coming seasons.

Lastly, I think volleyball in middle TN is definitely on the upswing. I agree with the words above that the coaching depth has to catch up. But I have seen some great strides in the past few weeks. I had the opportunity to watch TPV scrimmage Southern Performance a few weeks ago. I mainly watched the combined 17s/18s. I was surprised at the growth since the beginning of the year. They more than held their own against SP who had three D1 commits on the court. And watching the Alliance teams yesterday was a treat. I was impressed not only with the quality but with the fight they had. It was fun watching the usual suspects (no Logan though....she's moved on to her college career). But two Alliance players who caught my eye; the setter on the 172s and the libero on the 162s. Lots of quality depth in the older age groups at Alliance. I believe Ann and Dan are setting the bar high for Mid TN volleyball. The next few years should be fun and interesting.

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59 minutes ago, SummaryJudgment said:

Instead of responding to each post, I'll just put all my thoughts here. Lots of good stuff above.

In my experience the volleyball world is all relative and the perspective of each parent regardless of the club can change week to week. I think the reason TPV is traveling less next year is because they will be able to host more tournaments at A Game....assuming they are in the building. If memory serves me right, I think they only had one home tournament. Alliance had many more. It could be a reversal of fortunes with the two clubs in regards to travel next year. No one knows for sure at this point. But the TPV parents I've spoken to are thrilled with not being on the road to tourneys and/ or out of town scrimmages so much next season.

That was quite a coup for Alliance and the new director pulling in all those great ones teams/ Clubs that had not been to Franklin before. This is somewhat indirect proof of what was labeled nonsense above. Relationships matter and not toying with seeding, standings, etc. helps get you invited back to the party year after year. Or gets people to come to your party. Alliance is clearly in great hands now and the future is very bright. I just hope they have a new home soon.

I find it interesting that two separate posters have labeled either the 13s or the 14s as the weakest group in middle TN, I think it's too early to tell. We've all seen those 3s and 4s players in these younger ages shoot up to ones teams and college opportunities. The girls at these young ages develop so differently. Two of the most awkward 7th graders I ever saw were Logan and Avri. They're obviously special talents, but there are many more like them who didn't seem to be much as middle schoolers and are now college bound.

I understand it's fun to play who beat who as a way of determining which club has the better players. I do it myself. But again, it's all relative and volleyball is so weird. It even happens within the same club. A few years ago I saw the Alliance 152s beat the 161s right after the 162s has just beaten the 151s with Logan, Tori,  and Andrea. Those twos teams had some players who were ones players the next year; and there is always an extra motivation when playing the chosen ones in the club. But I didn't take it for anything more than it was. It all sorts itself out and anything can happen match to match. Same goes for matches between clubs. That's volleyball. As for who is better, I'd say TPV in the 13s, split in the 14s, Alliance in the 15-18s. Pretty much a no-duh I know. I do hope we get to see the two clubs play each other more in the coming seasons.

Lastly, I think volleyball in middle TN is definitely on the upswing. I agree with the words above that the coaching depth has to catch up. But I have seen some great strides in the past few weeks. I had the opportunity to watch TPV scrimmage Southern Performance a few weeks ago. I mainly watched the combined 17s/18s. I was surprised at the growth since the beginning of the year. They more than held their own against SP who had three D1 commits on the court. And watching the Alliance teams yesterday was a treat. I was impressed not only with the quality but with the fight they had. It was fun watching the usual suspects (no Logan though....she's moved on to her college career). But two Alliance players who caught my eye; the setter on the 172s and the libero on the 162s. Lots of quality depth in the older age groups at Alliance. I believe Ann and Dan are setting the bar high for Mid TN volleyball. The next few years should be fun and interesting.

I agree with everything you said with the small exception the 14's split.  The 14 age group in Mid Tenn is weak but TPV's 14 are all Alliance 2-3 team players.  TPV 14 do not have the high end talent that Alliance 14's.  

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On 6/4/2018 at 2:58 PM, SummaryJudgment said:

That was quite a coup for Alliance and the new director pulling in all those great ones teams/ Clubs that had not been to Franklin before. This is somewhat indirect proof of what was labeled nonsense above. Relationships matter and not toying with seeding, standings, etc. helps get you invited back to the party year after year. Or gets people to come to your party. Alliance is clearly in great hands now and the future is very bright. I just hope they have a new home soon.

SJ, we have 2 very different views on all this. The "nonsense" I was talking about was the idea that Alliance wanted to return to the Southern Power League this season, but were denied by those running that circuit. Maybe I am inferring too much, but I think you are saying that not only is that false, but further the denial is attributable to the (now former) Club Director. Do I have that right? If not, please correct me.

If so, I stand by my statement, that it's silly to think that anyone associated with Alliance (parents, coaches, players, admin) enjoyed their experience in the Power league and were pining to return to it. If Alliance is permitted to return next year (and does), I will know I had this totally wrong. As an aside, it might not be the worst decision for Alliance to schedule against TPV more often, to give itself more opportunities to show how far apart the clubs really are in competitiveness. Joining the Power League would do that.

As to the strength of the field in the Sweet Tea event, again, new management had nothing to do with this. These tournaments are planned months in advance. It was billed from the outset as a top-heavy, Open-level event. The field was available in AES even before this club season. Most of all, Alliance wasn't even the host; A5 was.

We do agree that more events of this level are good, long-term, for Tennessee volleyball and for Southern volleyball as a whole.

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35 minutes ago, Osage said:

SJ, we have 2 very different views on all this. The "nonsense" I was talking about was the idea that Alliance wanted to return to the Southern Power League this season, but were denied by those running that circuit. Maybe I am inferring too much, but I think you are saying that not only is that false, but further the denial is attributable to the (now former) Club Director. Do I have that right? If not, please correct me.

If so, I stand by my statement, that it's silly to think that anyone associated with Alliance (parents, coaches, players, admin) enjoyed their experience in the Power league and were pining to return to it. If Alliance is permitted to return next year (and does), I will know I had this totally wrong. As an aside, it might not be the worst decision for Alliance to schedule against TPV more often, to give itself more opportunities to show how far apart the clubs really are in competitiveness. Joining the Power League would do that.

As to the strength of the field in the Sweet Tea event, again, new management had nothing to do with this. These tournaments are planned months in advance. It was billed from the outset as a top-heavy, Open-level event. The field was available in AES even before this club season. Most of all, Alliance wasn't even the host; A5 was.

We do agree that more events of this level are good, long-term, for Tennessee volleyball and for Southern volleyball as a whole.

Buried in one of these threads (maybe this one) is a comment I made that everyone at Alliance was tired of playing the same clubs/ teams over and over. I think I mentioned Choo Choo by name. I am not going to go back and find it. But I am 99% sure I said it. So yes, I agree with you. And so yes, you are inferring too much. That's probably more on me as I was trying to impart as much as possible in few words as possible. A kind of read between the lines thing. What I was being intentionally inartful about is that while Alliance wanted out, the other league members weren't too upset because of the negative relationship with the former director. I don't think Alliance would have been welcomed back even if they had wanted to continue in the SPL. Which as you and I have both correctly stated, they didn't want to continue. That's all I am saying. There were a lot of fractured relationships. Would the league have survived if an equal or better replacement had been found? I don't know, I don't care, and it was highly unlikely any club of note was going to step in and save the SPL. I think it was a case of everyone chopping off their noses to spite their faces. Honestly, I think it's for the best anyway. Power leagues are overrated. 

As for the STS; it wasn't listed on the initial Mizuno/ Molten schedules. Forgive me for not going back and re-checking. And A5 may have been the host, but it's still the first time I can remember the aforementioned clubs coming to Nashville. If that was in place before the director switch, then you win. But I think that we are going to see these types of tournaments more frequently here because of the new director. Even if they have to be held at the Ag Center.

I completely agree with you that these events are good for the health of volleyball in Tennessee and the south.

Club things I am curious about going forward: What will Ethos and Club West look like next year? How will the housing situation affect the number of teams at Alliance? Will TPV be able to hold on to their better players or will this be like 2014 when a lot of quality CW girls switched to Alliance. And what is the future of club ball in east Tennessee? (it seems like Tri-Cities and Chattanooga have fallen off the map)

Lastly, looking forward to watching some quality volleyball in Orlando.

 

 

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There was a Pre-Nationals Event in conjunction with A5 on the original schedules, but don't hold me to the exact verbiage. My point is that this had been in the works for a long time. In fact, it almost happened last club season, but A5 got cold feet because of uncertainty around the availability of A-Game.

Hopefully the first of many.

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