cobrakid8 Posted February 5, 2018 Report Share Posted February 5, 2018 2 hours ago, mat73557 said: Although I like the idea of bringing back one unified state tourney, that does not grow wrestling. We all know that. If we ever want our state to compete at the same level as any wrestling state you can name, we have to keep attracting more participants to the sport. I don't like some of these situations where a kid wins 2 matches and he's a state champ any more than anyone else but the split drove the numbers up and that is what we need in TN. JMO The split did nothing but water everything down, heck with the split I would have been a high state placer, fact is the kids that have went on to be really good nationally started at a VERY young age, they didn't start in high school or really in middle school either. To grow the sport the best way is to get kids into kids club wrestling. My son went last year to a free beginners camp at Bradley, there were a ton of kids there and it went really well and I am sure Bradley picked up some kids to wrestle. My son liked it but ended up not wanting to wrestle. Those free camps would do more for growing the sport than having 12 extra teams join in the high school ranks and have 5 wrestlers and not a one of them ever wrestle in college, but they can call themselves a state champ while beating no one of significance. Don't get me wrong, there have been some really good wrestlers in A/AA win states and a few of those would have won in other divisions, but I have seen some of those kids last few years that wouldn't have went past round of 16 in AAA or a round or so in D2. The split didn't do anything to bring TN to the national level, that's being done at the youth level! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbg Posted February 5, 2018 Report Share Posted February 5, 2018 (edited) 18 hours ago, reftn said: Two possibilities. 1. Could you double the entry price of the traditional tournament? Hate to break it down like that, but if you could demonstrate people would pay for that event, it would be a no brainer. 2, Would wrestlers, coaches, administrators be willing to extend the season one more week and have a Grand Championship of the top four placers (or top 3, whatever makes the numbers work), all divisions the week following the traditional state for a Grand Champion? The D2 State Champions are invited and attend the National Prep School Championships the week after the state tournament. Why for any reason would they forgo the opportunity to be a national prep school champion or all american to compete in a State Grand Championship event? Compared to other state tournaments the national preps are considered one of the top 5 championships for high school wrestlers. The D2 coaches worked to for many years to have the Tennessee State Champions invited. Edited February 5, 2018 by cbg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mat73557 Posted February 6, 2018 Report Share Posted February 6, 2018 Maybe somewhere there are numbers which show wrestling participants in Tennessee over the last few years. I would be curious to know those numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reftn Posted February 6, 2018 Report Share Posted February 6, 2018 7 hours ago, cbg said: The D2 State Champions are invited and attend the National Prep School Championships the week after the state tournament. Why for any reason would they forgo the opportunity to be a national prep school champion or all american to compete in a State Grand Championship event? Compared to other state tournaments the national preps are considered one of the top 5 championships for high school wrestlers. The D2 coaches worked to for many years to have the Tennessee State Champions invited. I suppose that would be their choice. Do you have a better option? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twofdr Posted February 6, 2018 Report Share Posted February 6, 2018 On 2/4/2018 at 9:10 PM, reftn said: Two possibilities. 1. Could you double the entry price of the traditional tournament? Hate to break it down like that, but if you could demonstrate people would pay for that event, it would be a no brainer. 2, Would wrestlers, coaches, administrators be willing to extend the season one more week and have a Grand Championship of the top four placers (or top 3, whatever makes the numbers work), all divisions the week following the traditional state for a Grand Champion? I think the dual concept makes the most sense. State Champs AAA vs A-AA vs D2 Duals. Each champion would wrestle the other state champions. In most cases, you’d get one kid going 2-0. 1) Not another weigh in, unless it’s plus 5 or something. AAA already has three days...the others just two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
durdon Posted February 6, 2018 Report Share Posted February 6, 2018 3 hours ago, mat73557 said: Maybe somewhere there are numbers which show wrestling participants in Tennessee over the last few years. I would be curious to know those numbers. https://www.flowrestling.org/articles/5067286-you-do-the-math-high-school-participation-numbers flo did an excellent article on the participation in HS wrestling and there has been a fairly steady decline in numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonesaw Posted February 6, 2018 Report Share Posted February 6, 2018 With all the young adults needing therapy dogs and play dough when they lose these days, is it any wonder they would not put their kids in a sport to teach them how to lose and work hard to win? Unfortunately, I think you will see a continued decline in a great sport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbg Posted February 6, 2018 Report Share Posted February 6, 2018 8 hours ago, reftn said: I suppose that would be their choice. Do you have a better option? Yes, the wrestling community could lead the way with the TSSAA and DEMAND the individual state wrestling tournament become a unified state tournament again. This will not happen due to self serving adults that want to legislate a state medal or championship for "Little Johnny" or school X. 1. Other than travel cost give me one good reason for the D2 state champions to forgo the National Prep School Championships to compete in a Grand State Championship. I know that Oklahoma and other states have tried to promote a Grand Championship event and no state has experienced very much success. 2. Are there any hard stats that prove multiple classifications specifically help the growth of wrestling in a state? I have truly searched and was not able to find any. The only thing I was able to find was that yes some states had good growth but that was due more to population increases than multiple classifications. The population of Tennessee is 6.6 million and we have 199 schools in 3 divisions that now offer wrestling. Pennsylvania has 12.5 million in population and have around 850 schools wrestling and they only have 2 divisions. 3. If the officials truly want to help grow and promote Tennessee Wrestling I would suggest they look at beginning a dual match with another state much like the Dapper Dan in Pennsylvania or the Iowa vs USA Dual. Find a state such as Virginia or Maryland that you can actually compete with and not a state that you would drop the hammer on. Maybe even try to get on the calendar to compete in the Dapper Dan against the WPIAL team but we would be lucky to win 3 matches. 4. One of the quickest ways to increase the talent level in Tennessee is for the Freestyle & Greco Roman numbers to increase with youth and middle school wrestlers. I understand that Folkstyle is promoted in the offseason by high school coaches because many did not grow up around the international styles, don't understand the rules of international wrestling and truly don't feel they have the time to learn something different. I can appreciate that but at the same time when most every college program in America is in attendance at the USA Wrestling Cadet/Junior Nationals in Fargo, ND it only makes sense for our best kids to attend and make a solid showing if they want to be recruited and have options. They have zero chance of doing well if they are not trained properly. You ask for some suggestions and I tried to provide you with a few ideas. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reftn Posted February 6, 2018 Report Share Posted February 6, 2018 41 minutes ago, cbg said: Yes, the wrestling community could lead the way with the TSSAA and DEMAND the individual state wrestling tournament become a unified state tournament again. This will not happen due to self serving adults that want to legislate a state medal or championship for "Little Johnny" or school X. 1. Other than travel cost give me one good reason for the D2 state champions to forgo the National Prep School Championships to compete in a Grand State Championship. I know that Oklahoma and other states have tried to promote a Grand Championship event and no state has experienced very much success. 2. Are there any hard stats that prove multiple classifications specifically help the growth of wrestling in a state? I have truly searched and was not able to find any. The only thing I was able to find was that yes some states had good growth but that was due more to population increases than multiple classifications. The population of Tennessee is 6.6 million and we have 199 schools in 3 divisions that now offer wrestling. Pennsylvania has 12.5 million in population and have around 850 schools wrestling and they only have 2 divisions. 3. If the officials truly want to help grow and promote Tennessee Wrestling I would suggest they look at beginning a dual match with another state much like the Dapper Dan in Pennsylvania or the Iowa vs USA Dual. Find a state such as Virginia or Maryland that you can actually compete with and not a state that you would drop the hammer on. Maybe even try to get on the calendar to compete in the Dapper Dan against the WPIAL team but we would be lucky to win 3 matches. 4. One of the quickest ways to increase the talent level in Tennessee is for the Freestyle & Greco Roman numbers to increase with youth and middle school wrestlers. I understand that Folkstyle is promoted in the offseason by high school coaches because many did not grow up around the international styles, don't understand the rules of international wrestling and truly don't feel they have the time to learn something different. I can appreciate that but at the same time when most every college program in America is in attendance at the USA Wrestling Cadet/Junior Nationals in Fargo, ND it only makes sense for our best kids to attend and make a solid showing if they want to be recruited and have options. They have zero chance of doing well if they are not trained properly. You ask for some suggestions and I tried to provide you with a few ideas. You did. And very good ones. I like your crawl, walk, run approach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrfixalot49 Posted February 6, 2018 Report Share Posted February 6, 2018 What was the reason behind the AAA,A-AA and D2 split? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PurpleWrestler Posted February 6, 2018 Report Share Posted February 6, 2018 26 minutes ago, mrfixalot49 said: What was the reason behind the AAA,A-AA and D2 split? From what I hear, public school parents were complaining of an unfair advantage the private schools had. Don't know why everyone is worried about all this, just go out and wrestle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSDAD Posted February 6, 2018 Report Share Posted February 6, 2018 3 minutes ago, PurpleWrestler said: From what I hear, public school parents were complaining of an unfair advantage the private schools had. Don't know why everyone is worried about all this, just go out and wrestle. Might be a concern for D2 ? Why small school split ? Who is responsible for that idea ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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