Region updates

[Gerry Bertier]

8 minutes ago, cobrakid8 said:

Maybe i would actually give you some credence but you couldn't even get it right, it is "do you want some cheese with that WHINE." I have said on these forums I don't mind the split for duals, however the split was done because of ego instead of what is best for the wrestlers. We have a few that have won A/AA small school and it happened because their coaches whined about them having no chance at a state title since they were a small school. And I have yet to see a 500 student school win that either, so maybe we should get a A school champion with 500 and under, a AA with 1000 and under maybe a AAA for teams 1000-1500 and AAAA for those Over it so that everyone has a chance to win duals. 

Just keep keep whining. What the TSSAA did makes total sense.

Most A-AA teams fall between the 500-1000 student range. There are a handful under 500. The dual champions for A/AA up until Gibbs this year were under 750 students the last couple of seasons. 

Before the split there was only one team in the last 8 years of the one division duals that made the day we that would be a A/AA team, Greeneville, and I actually think their enrollment was higher back then.

Like I said earlier if Iowa and Ohio are doing it then I feel ok about Tennessee following along. I think those states know a thing or two about wrestling.

 

 

[inthagap]

26 minutes ago, Gerry Bertier said:

What does Iowa or Ohio know about wrestling? I mean those guys have multiple divisions and I bet they have pretty dang good reasons for it.

The amount of teams in 1978 is nowhere near the amount of teams that have wrestling now. The aport has grown which is an amazing thing.

Your right, those states are amazing! Maybe they need to divide the Olympics according to country size also. I would prefer to have just one state Champion per weight class, just my opinion though.

Edited February 11, 2018 by inthagap

[cobrakid8]

24 minutes ago, Gerry Bertier said:

Just keep keep whining. What the TSSAA did makes total sense.

Most A-AA teams fall between the 500-1000 student range. There are a handful under 500. The dual champions for A/AA up until Gibbs this year were under 750 students the last couple of seasons. 

Before the split there was only one team in the last 8 years of the one division duals that made the day we that would be a A/AA team, Greeneville, and I actually think their enrollment was higher back then.

Like I said earlier if Iowa and Ohio are doing it then I feel ok about Tennessee following along. I think those states know a thing or two about wrestling.

 

 

Glad you finally got that right(whine) glad I could put you on the right path! And you are an idiot if you think TN can be compare s to Ohio or Iowa, in a given year they produce more national champions than TN has ever! 

 

And where are those 500 enrollment teams you talked about earlier? I mean surely they can compete with a 750 enrollment school? The past champions in A/AA have been Hixson-over 900, Red Bank-little over 750, Pigeon Forge-about 750 and Gibbs-over 1000. Maybe we should again go ahead and split it again so we can make sure everyone has a chance! Let's do 8 and give some rings!   Seriously keep on making a fool of yourself, I mean if a school with 500 kids cannot compete with a school with 750 as you said above, how can a school with 1200 compete with a school of 2500? So let's just go ahead and put them in divisions like football and maybe we will grow the sport!   Unlike you I have always subscribed to the iron sharpens iron method! My teams(I coached in TN and GA, assistant to teams in both states that win state titles!). When we put our schedule together we always wrestled against the best, our records never spoke to being the best team, but we sure were heck when we got to the state tourney's. The split didn't help grow wrestling in TN, we have had population growth, and yet we can't fill up the women's bracket and the numbers are down across the state itself with actual wrestlers. We have had state tourney teams in state duals that cannot even fill a lineup, we have region tourneys with some weights (A/AA) especially with 4 wrestlers so everyone goes. 

 

Fact is the wrestling has been watered down and I think that has also shown in the kids that have been put out into college. We haven't had the studs like the Phillip Simpsons, Jordan Leen, Matt Sweeton, Matt Keller(RIP), Kevin Ward, Rusty Blackmon and many others before and I have seen lots of A/AA coaches especially that haven't subcribed to the iron sharpens iron method and go to some tournament to pad their stats and when their wrestler goes off to college they can't handle it wrestling.  The one thing I can say though is it seems we are putting out some stud heavy's lately  with another from WC following in their footsteps. 

[Gerry Bertier]

Nowhere did I say a school with 500 can’t compete with a school of 750. The split has added competitiveness to the sport for the lower schools. You are right some teams can’t fill an entire team which means those wrestlers are not getting that iron sharpen iron mentality you are talking about in practice everyday. The wrestling room is where most champions are made. At smallest schools there may be only one in a weight class this that wrestling room training becomings more difficult compared to a school of 2000 who has 3 or 4 in each weight class.

i know plenty of top A/AA programs that are getting in the top tournaments in the state with the bigger schools. They are not shying away this why they are being successful on the state level. 

Must be a sad little life being so pompous and the leader of the your Anti-Everyone gets a trophy movement that you feel is happening in the state with the sport yet the majority of other states are doing the same. 

High school athletics are about experiences. If that means 8 additional teams during duals and 16 wrestlers per weight class at individuals get the opportunity to benefit from the positives that wrestling teaches you through success and failure then I think it is a positive move. At the end of the day that’s what it is about yet people like you continue with an elitists attitude that doesn’t further the sport it hinders it and you are so far in the forest you can’t see the trees.

Also research has shown school size does have correlation with success in individual state tournaments where there is a single class system, ie Indiana.

Right now Tennessee has it right with 3 classes. It should never go above that.

[Bump11]

You guys have to all realize something, adding divisions isn’t what waters down competition. It’s adding divisions when there is no competition. If that makes sense. Multiple states have upwards of 5 or 6 divisions and they all FLOURISH. There are 1A and 2A guys and teams that can compete with the 5A and 6A guys. Heck, there’s some states “small school” teams that I’d take over a lot of the schools in Tennessee. If they can all do it and have top notch programs from 1A-6A, then that shows you that expansion and more divisions isn’t the issue. It’s the fact that in Tennessee, we just don’t have the number of schools or level of talent to run more divisions and it actually be good competition. I hate to say it but it’s true. That’s why you see the “watered down” conditions. Not because there’s multiple divisions, but because we just don’t have the number of schools or talent level to have 3 competitive divisions. What works best for other states doesn’t work best for us. I don’t think it ever should’ve gone to 3. It should’ve stayed at 2. D1 and D2. I get that we want the sport to grow...but handing out medals won’t do it. Atleast not in a good way. It needs to grow because kids strive to be the best overall. It should always be about striving to be the absolute best.  I don’t mean to put the A/AA guys down, but a kid would get much better, and try much harder, if they were aiming and training to beat Michael Kramer and not Elijah Zweydorff. Make sense? Take NCAA for example. If you’re a freshman coming in and you were 149, you’d work your tail off and train as hard as you could cause you know you have to beat Zain to win. Whereas if the guy at the top of your weight is another freshman or someone else not as proven, you still work hard, but the mountain isn’t as massive so you feel better about your chances and whether you realize it or not, you don’t train as hard. Because it’s not as steep of a hill to climb. I hope that all makes sense. 

Edited February 11, 2018 by Bump11

[cobrakid8]

7 hours ago, Gerry Bertier said:

Nowhere did I say a school with 500 can’t compete with a school of 750. The split has added competitiveness to the sport for the lower schools. You are right some teams can’t fill an entire team which means those wrestlers are not getting that iron sharpen iron mentality you are talking about in practice everyday. The wrestling room is where most champions are made. At smallest schools there may be only one in a weight class this that wrestling room training becomings more difficult compared to a school of 2000 who has 3 or 4 in each weight class.

i know plenty of top A/AA programs that are getting in the top tournaments in the state with the bigger schools. They are not shying away this why they are being successful on the state level. 

Must be a sad little life being so pompous and the leader of the your Anti-Everyone gets a trophy movement that you feel is happening in the state with the sport yet the majority of other states are doing the same. 

High school athletics are about experiences. If that means 8 additional teams during duals and 16 wrestlers per weight class at individuals get the opportunity to benefit from the positives that wrestling teaches you through success and failure then I think it is a positive move. At the end of the day that’s what it is about yet people like you continue with an elitists attitude that doesn’t further the sport it hinders it and you are so far in the forest you can’t see the trees.

Also research has shown school size does have correlation with success in individual state tournaments where there is a single class system, ie Indiana.

Right now Tennessee has it right with 3 classes. It should never go above that.

Well bigmouth where are those 500 kid schools you speak of, because not a ONE has won A/AA state title, so again lets go ahead and split it to give them a chance, soon enough for people like you we will have 5 divisions! And how many of those small schools took part in Father Ryan Tourney, McCallie tourney, the Cleveland duals? Get back with me and let me know, because you can have a good wrestling room all day, but if you wrestle crap all year long instead of wrestling in those best of the best tourney's you are not going to get better, as they say to be the man you have to beat the man! Again, I have no problem with the split for state duals, but there's sure are some A/AA placers that wouldn't win one round in AAA or even D2 and yet they get to take home a medal. So yes competition is watered down because you might be a state champ in TN, but got stuck all year by kids that didn't win a match in AAA and those that win the state title in GA. Again, the point of the split was to grow the sport and it sure as heck hasn't done that although population in TN has increased, so keep telling me how good it has worked! 

 

Dont worry bert if you want I will give you a trophy for your posting because you haven't earned it, but hey what's the difference you still deserve one! Maybe you should stick with football because you obviously don't have a clue about wrestling!

[bonesaw]

Bump and Kid, I think you nailed it. It amazes me that people believe the population of a school will dictate how good an individual wrestler can be. If you want a wrestler to be on the podium, get them involved early in youth programs and wrestling the best competition they can. Don't see many AA schools at AAA or D2 tournaments trying to get their kids better. If a kid ends up at a small school, they can still have the same wrestling background as any other kid in AAA or D2. I know Mt Juliet has one of the largest populated schools in Tn and still has trouble filling a full line up, while Greenbrier has built a solid team with huge numbers, so in this case size doesn't matter.

[fooseball95]

A thread that totally went off course lol

Edited February 11, 2018 by fooseball95

[gobobcatd]

There are kids in A/AA that spend a lot of time traveling to fight nights and off-season events that welcome the opportunity to wrestle the AAA guys or even better. My family have devoted our lives basically to give our boys the best opportunity they can have to get better. All this AAA vs. A-AA is crazy. Difference between facilities is unbelievable. Opportunity to wrestle equal or better talent for an A-AA kid who puts in the time to get better is not their fault. They wrestle  whoever the other team has period.  Point being work your butt off put in the time,  and never have the opportunity to be respected because your small school?  Crazy there ARE kids in A-AA that can compete, I agree it might be a small amount but there ARE.  Anyway I’m venting because I’ve read 3 times in this thread, not trying to disrespect small school, but then you do. Some of those boys read this. Just saying. And Good luck to all at state this weekend. All Divisions

[cobrakid8]

6 minutes ago, gobobcatd said:

There are kids in A/AA that spend a lot of time traveling to fight nights and off-season events that welcome the opportunity to wrestle the AAA guys or even better. My family have devoted our lives basically to give our boys the best opportunity they can have to get better. All this AAA vs. A-AA is crazy. Difference between facilities is unbelievable. Opportunity to wrestle equal or better talent for an A-AA kid who puts in the time to get better is not their fault. They wrestle  whoever the other team has period.  Point being work your butt off put in the time,  and never have the opportunity to be respected because your small school?  Crazy there ARE kids in A-AA that can compete, I agree it might be a small amount but there ARE.  Anyway I’m venting because I’ve read 3 times in this thread, not trying to disrespect small school, but then you do. Some of those boys read this. Just saying. And Good luck to all at state this weekend. All Divisions

Bobcat, good luck to your boys, sadly it's not the kids fault, it was coaches decisions to push this through under the guise of it growing the sport and it had nothing to do with that! On top of it, some of these same coaches end up going to some bottom tourneys to pad those stats. Like Pat Summit used to say, she didn't care what the season stats looked like, she scheduled the toughest schedule she could to make her kids better and be ready for the tourney, she hung a heck of a lot of banners!   Again, it's not the kids fault at all, what I want is what is best for the state and it's wrestling health! I want to put the best kids out into colleges so that TN starts being talked about as one of the top producers in wrestling quality.  So far we haven't really been doing that because we have some running from the competition and not putting our best on the top of that podium at the end of the season!  I wrestled when there was one division total and also when there were two! As a coach we went wherever the best wrestling was, that was what was best for my boys and i learned that having a heck of a kids club was what produced the best wrestlers. I salute you for getting your kids the best wrestling experience they can have bobcat, and there are some A/AA state champs that could sit on top of the podium in AAA and D2, it is just few and far in between.

[bonesaw]

I think you just made my point, there are some D2 kids that could compete at AAA state and would be there no matter what size there school is. 

[goblue1]

47 minutes ago, fooseball95 said:

A thread that totally went off course lol

Thank you. It seems like every thread on here gets off topic and turns into people going back and forth complaining about something that should have its own thread. Looks like there were some great region tournaments its too bad those are not being discussed. I can tell you region 7 tournament had some great matches and it was a tough two day tournament. 17 teams , full brackets and great individual performances.