Super 32 on the way back?

[thegreatwhite1]

46 minutes ago, BIGPURPLEMACHINE said:

Probably so. The competition thing with numbers at the 6A level just gets me. Are these same schools complaining during basketball or baseball season when teams with much more skewed enrollments are forced to play because there are only 3 classes?  I can think of Liberty in Jackson has maybe 1100 kids at the most probably less. Well they have to get thru teams out of Memphis with over 2000 enrollment to win a state title in basketball. Is that fair. Of course not. But people don’t complain about cases like that. Only in football. 

Exactly.  Nothing changes except for football.  Presently there are so many schools in the other sports that compete against schools with twice the enrollments in the regular season and playoffs.  Get better is the only answer to their predicament.   I like the GA model.  Same classes across all the main sports.  If you don't make the top 4 in your region in the regular season, you don't make the playoffs.

[ocac]

1 hour ago, BIGPURPLEMACHINE said:

It happens in 1A all the time. Schools with less than 200 students competing against schools with almost 400. Why is ok for 1A but not 6A?? At least those schools would have a whole lot more depth or potential depth. Some 1A schools playing football can barely field a roster and they are forced to play school with twice the enrollment. 

I don't recall saying it was ok at any level.  I was quoting Red Rebels because he specifically used 6A in his response.  So..........I commented on the 6A status.

[ocac]

1 hour ago, BIGPURPLEMACHINE said:

Probably so. The competition thing with numbers at the 6A level just gets me. Are these same schools complaining during basketball or baseball season when teams with much more skewed enrollments are forced to play because there are only 3 classes?  I can think of Liberty in Jackson has maybe 1100 kids at the most probably less. Well they have to get thru teams out of Memphis with over 2000 enrollment to win a state title in basketball. Is that fair. Of course not. But people don’t complain about cases like that. Only in football. 

BPM.......you just touched on an aspect that I believe should be included in classification.  Liberty is a able to compete against higher level enrollments because Jackson is an Urban area and has the resources to be able to compete Lot's of athletes in the Jackson area because it can offer good jobs to parents and the kids can compete against other great kids in the same city or area.  They can be exposed to better things earlier in life.  JMO

[Red Rebels]

7 minutes ago, ocac said:

I don't recall saying it was ok at any level.  I was quoting Red Rebels because he specifically used 6A in his response.  So..........I commented on the 6A status.

6A / Super 32 it's the topic. It affects other classes. 

[RebelAtHeart]

Last time I checked there are only 11 players on the field during a play.  Double that to keep O and D fresh and you get 22.  Now double to get your reserves and you land at 44.  Throw in the specialists and depth guys where 3-deep is necessary and you move toward 50-something.  NFL teams play with 53-men rosters.  My point is that this is all political bantering and sophisticated whining.  If you can't field a group of 50 able-bodied warriors to strap on school colors and represent family and community playing the best game on the planet 10 times a year (minimum) in front of the largest crowd for high school sports in likely the best environment for competitive sports (FNL) out of 1000 or more students... well then shuterdown and focus on roundball or chess club or something anybody can do.

I agree that a 150 student 1A program playing a 400 student program seems to be a disadvantage.  But saying a 1000 student school is at a disadvantage to 2000 students is excuse-making at its best.  Alcoa, Greenback, and others have proven time and again that student body numbers do not determine the outcome of a program.  If that were the case, then all of the privates with multipliers could never win.  T$$AA should do the right thing and drop back to 5 divisions (or even 4) and make football a competitive sport again in post-season.  Stop with the participation trophy mentality and help the schools out that have to drive all over the state.

Unfortunately the class system and championship path is no longer about tradition, betterment of programs, or teaching our youngins about healthy competition - at least not primarily.  It is clear that money drives so many of these decisions.  The consideration of Super 32 makes me think the next item of importance is who whines the loudest.  Every other sport in TN works through a district and region system that seems to work just fine with only 3 divisions.  I played at Sullivan South county school with about 1400 students and we played big ole DB and Science Hill every year - some years competitively - and I loved it!  Stop screwing with this failed system in hopes of appeasing loud-mouth, perennial losers.  If you want to be a champion - WIN!  #makepostseasongreatagain

[thegreatwhite1]

22 minutes ago, RebelAtHeart said:

Last time I checked there are only 11 players on the field during a play.  Double that to keep O and D fresh and you get 22.  Now double to get your reserves and you land at 44.  Throw in the specialists and depth guys where 3-deep is necessary and you move toward 50-something.  NFL teams play with 53-men rosters.  My point is that this is all political bantering and sophisticated whining.  If you can't field a group of 50 able-bodied warriors to strap on school colors and represent family and community playing the best game on the planet 10 times a year (minimum) in front of the largest crowd for high school sports in likely the best environment for competitive sports (FNL) out of 1000 or more students... well then shuterdown and focus on roundball or chess club or something anybody can do.

I agree that a 150 student 1A program playing a 400 student program seems to be a disadvantage.  But saying a 1000 student school is at a disadvantage to 2000 students is excuse-making at its best.  Alcoa, Greenback, and others have proven time and again that student body numbers do not determine the outcome of a program.  If that were the case, then all of the privates with multipliers could never win.  T$$AA should do the right thing and drop back to 5 divisions (or even 4) and make football a competitive sport again in post-season.  Stop with the participation trophy mentality and help the schools out that have to drive all over the state.

Unfortunately the class system and championship path is no longer about tradition, betterment of programs, or teaching our youngins about healthy competition - at least not primarily.  It is clear that money drives so many of these decisions.  The consideration of Super 32 makes me think the next item of importance is who whines the loudest.  Every other sport in TN works through a district and region system that seems to work just fine with only 3 divisions.  I played at Sullivan South county school with about 1400 students and we played big ole DB and Science Hill every year - some years competitively - and I loved it!  Stop screwing with this failed system in hopes of appeasing loud-mouth, perennial losers.  If you want to be a champion - WIN!  #makepostseasongreatagain

I agree with what you are saying... but as someone that has coached in multiple classifications I can definitely say that numbers do make a difference.  In theory 1000 more students = 500 more boys.  Out of those 500 boys statistically there would have to be a few that would at worst be good enough to contribute.

[RebelAtHeart]

43 minutes ago, thegreatwhite1 said:

I agree with what you are saying... but as someone that has coached in multiple classifications I can definitely say that numbers do make a difference.  In theory 1000 more students = 500 more boys.  Out of those 500 boys statistically there would have to be a few that would at worst be good enough to contribute.

I respectfully disagree... most high school teams in TN have 1 or 2 top tier athletes at best.  Dynasty teams are not about star athletes.  You take 11 guys sold out and disciplined with some level of skill and strength and you can win most downs in a game.  Once you get above 2A winning becomes more about coaches, boosters, and community support.  Look who wins the gold balls - it is not a numbers game.  IMHO.

Edited October 18, 2018 by RebelAtHeart

[QSouth89]

54 minutes ago, RebelAtHeart said:

Last time I checked there are only 11 players on the field during a play.  Double that to keep O and D fresh and you get 22.  Now double to get your reserves and you land at 44.  Throw in the specialists and depth guys where 3-deep is necessary and you move toward 50-something.  NFL teams play with 53-men rosters.  My point is that this is all political bantering and sophisticated whining.  If you can't field a group of 50 able-bodied warriors to strap on school colors and represent family and community playing the best game on the planet 10 times a year (minimum) in front of the largest crowd for high school sports in likely the best environment for competitive sports (FNL) out of 1000 or more students... well then shuterdown and focus on roundball or chess club or something anybody can do.

I agree that a 150 student 1A program playing a 400 student program seems to be a disadvantage.  But saying a 1000 student school is at a disadvantage to 2000 students is excuse-making at its best.  Alcoa, Greenback, and others have proven time and again that student body numbers do not determine the outcome of a program.  If that were the case, then all of the privates with multipliers could never win.  T$$AA should do the right thing and drop back to 5 divisions (or even 4) and make football a competitive sport again in post-season.  Stop with the participation trophy mentality and help the schools out that have to drive all over the state.

Unfortunately the class system and championship path is no longer about tradition, betterment of programs, or teaching our youngins about healthy competition - at least not primarily.  It is clear that money drives so many of these decisions.  The consideration of Super 32 makes me think the next item of importance is who whines the loudest.  Every other sport in TN works through a district and region system that seems to work just fine with only 3 divisions.  I played at Sullivan South county school with about 1400 students and we played big ole DB and Science Hill every year - some years competitively - and I loved it!  Stop screwing with this failed system in hopes of appeasing loud-mouth, perennial losers.  If you want to be a champion - WIN!  #makepostseasongreatagain

Excellent point.  Someone who gets it.

[MSURacer]

1 hour ago, RebelAtHeart said:

I respectfully disagree... most high school teams in TN have 1 or 2 top tier athletes at best.  Dynasty teams are not about star athletes.  You take 11 guys sold out and disciplined with some level of skill and strength and you can win most downs in a game.  Once you get above 2A winning becomes more about coaches, boosters, and community support.  Look who wins the gold balls - it is not a numbers game.  IMHO.

Numbers make a huge difference. Depth is very important from 3A upward.  

[RebelAtHeart]

19 minutes ago, MSURacer said:

Numbers make a huge difference. Depth is very important from 3A upward.  

I agree depth is very important.  I do not agree the strength and depth of a team directly correlates to the student enrollment numbers.  6A is a perfect example... last 5 years the gold ball went to a team with less than 1800 students (granted 3 of those years were the same school).  Catholic won a gold ball last year with just over 600 students in the 5A bracket.  Sure it may be easier to field a team with 1000 more kids in the school, but I am not buying into this being why some get gold and some just get cold in December!  #excuses

My proposal... Start later with only 1 game in August.  Trim it back to 4 divisions or 5 divisions at most.  Play 11 or 12 regular season games.  Only the top teams in each region advance to fight it out for the gold in November/December.  Cut a check to T$$AA from proceeds from all games and take their focus off the post-season fortune building.

[BIGPURPLEMACHINE]

8 hours ago, ocac said:

BPM.......you just touched on an aspect that I believe should be included in classification.  Liberty is a able to compete against higher level enrollments because Jackson is an Urban area and has the resources to be able to compete Lot's of athletes in the Jackson area because it can offer good jobs to parents and the kids can compete against other great kids in the same city or area.  They can be exposed to better things earlier in life.  JMO

Your logic with Liberty is flawed. Look at their records in all sports over the last couple of years and you will see they are certainly not competing. 

[GREYRIDERx]

9 hours ago, RebelAtHeart said:

Last time I checked there are only 11 players on the field during a play.  Double that to keep O and D fresh and you get 22.  Now double to get your reserves and you land at 44.  Throw in the specialists and depth guys where 3-deep is necessary and you move toward 50-something.  NFL teams play with 53-men rosters.  My point is that this is all political bantering and sophisticated whining.  If you can't field a group of 50 able-bodied warriors to strap on school colors and represent family and community playing the best game on the planet 10 times a year (minimum) in front of the largest crowd for high school sports in likely the best environment for competitive sports (FNL) out of 1000 or more students... well then shuterdown and focus on roundball or chess club or something anybody can do.

I agree that a 150 student 1A program playing a 400 student program seems to be a disadvantage.  But saying a 1000 student school is at a disadvantage to 2000 students is excuse-making at its best.  Alcoa, Greenback, and others have proven time and again that student body numbers do not determine the outcome of a program.  If that were the case, then all of the privates with multipliers could never win.  T$$AA should do the right thing and drop back to 5 divisions (or even 4) and make football a competitive sport again in post-season.  Stop with the participation trophy mentality and help the schools out that have to drive all over the state.

Unfortunately the class system and championship path is no longer about tradition, betterment of programs, or teaching our youngins about healthy competition - at least not primarily.  It is clear that money drives so many of these decisions.  The consideration of Super 32 makes me think the next item of importance is who whines the loudest.  Every other sport in TN works through a district and region system that seems to work just fine with only 3 divisions.  I played at Sullivan South county school with about 1400 students and we played big ole DB and Science Hill every year - some years competitively - and I loved it!  Stop screwing with this failed system in hopes of appeasing loud-mouth, perennial losers.  If you want to be a champion - WIN!  #makepostseasongreatagain

Preach on!