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Style vs. Substance


blazer1set
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Fellers hit jist matters if'un ewe got tha Jimmy's and Joe's most ov tha time......Okelund haz haid tha athleets tha laist 5 yeers Mairvul haz played tham.....Thay cain jist line up and beet most teems....Simpull az thait....Ewe do haiv two give Creasy credditt tho becaws he duz a vurry goodur job att ovurlodin and outflankin' ewe wif shifts and stayin' wif what werks.....

Az fer az Mairvul sumtimes thay ant gott tha best Jimmy's and Joe's and ant gonna winn no bewty contests inn tha warm-ups......So ewe gotta compensate....If'un thait meens scheamin' upp, orr playin' two yore strengths, orr findin' othur teems weeknessus, orr jist out executin' sumbodee......

Mairvul wuz a littull smallish this yeer upfrunt and thay cood not ovurcome thait agin Okelund this yeer and ewe see tha reesults (Pluss knott havin a compleetlee helthee Tee Hodge since pre- seesun didn't hep nothin).....If'un Mairvul gits biggur and emproves upp thair thay ort two winn a gaim orr two necks yeer becaws thay haiv 9 comin baick on O and 5 orr 6 baick on D and ere purtee loadid att all tha skilt posishuns.....jmo.......

 

 

:popcorneater: 

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12 hours ago, zoneread56 said:

how would you know? no one has done it to them.. keep watching your mediocre football bubble with 1970s concepts. kinda had to "smash" them into 3 and outs if your tongue is dragging

 

riddle me this: has anyone all yr tempoed oakland at all? you act like oaklands dline is so almighty.. a good oline with tempo mixed in would break the  pass rush after a few drives

Maybe you should Coach, you seem to have it all figured out.....lol

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4 minutes ago, eers said:

Here is the funny thing to me. Reading most of this makes me realize the majority of people commenting on here and bashing a given “offense” don’t understand the difference in principles, philosophies and formations. 

Bingo, and they also don't understand the fact of a gold ball in the trophy case regardless of how it got there.    Almost like they would rather have a cute offense than the actual gold......    Hence style vs. substance...

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21 hours ago, zoneread56 said:

The spread is the equalizer bc a team is not gonna line up and ground a pound a team like Alcoa and Oakland or maryville. That has been proven over and over to not work

You accuse people on here of not knowing anything about football, but you really don't get how the Wing-T or any of these other offenses actually work, do you?  If you think they're just "lin(ing) up and ground a pound" a team without any thought process behind it, you're mistaken.  Those teams put defenders in conflict and use plays in series, too.   Heck, they INVENTED those ideas. You can even run RPOs in those offenses.  Waggle is the original RPO :)

When you try spreading out against a team with better athletes in space, do you know what happens?  They play man coverage, take your spread receivers out of the game with their better athletes shutting your guys down, and then make you run at 7 in the box from 4 wide.  They stuff those runs easily, go up by a few scores on you, and then they just pin their ears back and get after your QB when he tries to pass.  Pretty soon you've had some fumbles and INTs and now you're getting blown out before the 1st quarter is even over and you still have 3 quarters left.

And guess what: going up-tempo doesn't fix that at all because you can't even get positive yards consistently enough to get a 1st down.  All you're doing then is getting your own 3 and outs over with quicker, so your own defense goes right back on the field and gets ran over.  They're the ones with their tongues hanging out.  You don't even get some advantage from keeping it simple, because that defense doesn't need to sub or do anything fancy to beat you.  They just line up in their base defense and beat you up physically in all those 1 on 1 matchups.

Meanwhile, defensively, instead of having to defend 40-50 plays, now you've got to defend about 60-70.  The opponent gets about 30% more chances to score ON YOU.

Plus if you're spread all the time, you do see some issues in practice with preparing for more smashmouth offenses.  You try teaching a LB how to stuff an Iso play when you don't use a FB.

Anyway, go coach for a while and go all spread, all the time with less talent.  See how far that gets you.  It's become an amplifier, not an equalizer, because EVERYONE runs the spread.  From a defensive perspective, facing a spread offense now is no different from facing a Wing-T or I formation offense in the 90s, because everybody is a spread team now and half of them don't know what the heck they're doing.

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I guess all this stuff comes down to this:

Old fashioned offenses (like the Wing T, triple option, I formation, etc.) are all about team offense.  Everyone is working together to concentrate strength in one particular place on any given play.

Spread offenses are more about speed in space and individual matchup.  If you've got the dudes to win those matchups, you're going to shred people.  If they have the dudes to win those matchups, like Alcoa and other schools do, you're going to be in trouble.

Tempo is a different thing.  A slow tempo shortens the game by milking the clock and running fewer plays.  A fast tempo lengthens it by creating more snaps.

Basic probability says that the more talented athletes *should* win the majority of matchups against less talented players, so if you've got more talent and you go up tempo, you're in good shape.  If you've got less talent, you're on the wrong side of that equation.

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25 minutes ago, blazer1set said:

Bingo, and they also don't understand the fact of a gold ball in the trophy case regardless of how it got there.    Almost like they would rather have a cute offense than the actual gold......    Hence style vs. substance...

Exactly 

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1 hour ago, BlueDevil58 said:

You accuse people on here of not knowing anything about football, but you really don't get how the Wing-T or any of these other offenses actually work, do you?  If you think they're just "lin(ing) up and ground a pound" a team without any thought process behind it, you're mistaken.  Those teams put defenders in conflict and use plays in series, too.   Heck, they INVENTED those ideas. You can even run RPOs in those offenses.  Waggle is the original RPO :)

When you try spreading out against a team with better athletes in space, do you know what happens?  They play man coverage, take your spread receivers out of the game with their better athletes shutting your guys down, and then make you run at 7 in the box from 4 wide.  They stuff those runs easily, go up by a few scores on you, and then they just pin their ears back and get after your QB when he tries to pass.  Pretty soon you've had some fumbles and INTs and now you're getting blown out before the 1st quarter is even over and you still have 3 quarters left.

And guess what: going up-tempo doesn't fix that at all because you can't even get positive yards consistently enough to get a 1st down.  All you're doing then is getting your own 3 and outs over with quicker, so your own defense goes right back on the field and gets ran over.  They're the ones with their tongues hanging out.  You don't even get some advantage from keeping it simple, because that defense doesn't need to sub or do anything fancy to beat you.  They just line up in their base defense and beat you up physically in all those 1 on 1 matchups.

Meanwhile, defensively, instead of having to defend 40-50 plays, now you've got to defend about 60-70.  The opponent gets about 30% more chances to score ON YOU.

Plus if you're spread all the time, you do see some issues in practice with preparing for more smashmouth offenses.  You try teaching a LB how to stuff an Iso play when you don't use a FB.

Anyway, go coach for a while and go all spread, all the time with less talent.  See how far that gets you.  It's become an amplifier, not an equalizer, because EVERYONE runs the spread.  From a defensive perspective, facing a spread offense now is no different from facing a Wing-T or I formation offense in the 90s, because everybody is a spread team now and half of them don't know what the heck they're doing.

I Understand wing T concepts just fine lol we can talk about them if you want 

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Why if you had the athletes Oakland has, play in a phone booth? Get them in space and let them go to work. It only works against teams with Dlines that are not as good or sometimes not as discipline as yours. Prime example is maryville beating Oakland over the last few years. I’m not knocking Oakland as a team but they could be even more so better with a different offense 

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16 hours ago, zoneread56 said:

The only reason people are all of a sudden loving the wing t is bc of one win. No one was saying this when Creasy choked in 2015,2016,2017, to teams with less coaching and at times less athletes. All bc he was h*ll bent on running his stupid wing T and has no pass game. What was the offense that they ran on him oh that’s right the spread. There is no “show” to the spread bc it just works plain and simple. If you have no deep understanding of how a team is trying to get matchups, succession play calling, rpos, etc, then yes the spread looks unorganized and a “show” but I’ll take it against that outdated wing T any day. There is a reason it’s not ran by any good teams in college and especially pros LOL

You really don't know, what you don't know. CKC's track record over time and at 2 different stops speak for themselves. You are so simple minded to think you can literally draw up what ever concept offensively scheme wise and just expect it to work. I promise you that your routes wouldn't be as crisp as they are drawn up on the white board against an Oakland defense. And I promise you CKC would bludgeon you into submission with the offense and eat all of the clock.... So many factors about why you would be so wrong. But you probably will never find out because you'll probably get your tail handed to you long before you even got a shot at Oakland... 

 

MOJO

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31 minutes ago, DillonPanthers1 said:

You really don't know, what you don't know. CKC's track record over time and at 2 different stops speak for themselves. You are so simple minded to think you can literally draw up what ever concept offensively scheme wise and just expect it to work. I promise you that your routes wouldn't be as crisp as they are drawn up on the white board against an Oakland defense. And I promise you CKC would bludgeon you into submission with the offense and eat all of the clock.... So many factors about why you would be so wrong. But you probably will never find out because you'll probably get your tail handed to you long before you even got a shot at Oakland... 

 

MOJO

Lol man lol. I bet you thought the same against maryville in 2015,2017 and whitehaven in 2016. It doesn’t work except when teams have a lesser dline. Oakland literally plays cover 3 and 1 all game. Try that vs a qb that can throw and a good Oline it’s lights out 

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1 hour ago, zoneread56 said:

Lol man lol. I bet you thought the same against maryville in 2015,2017 and whitehaven in 2016. It doesn’t work except when teams have a lesser dline. Oakland literally plays cover 3 and 1 all game. Try that vs a qb that can throw and a good Oline it’s lights out 

Been to countless practices over the past 4 years. They also play quarters, a cover 5 package, and nickel in certain ‘and long’ situations. Heard and saw it with my own eyes......at many practices and every game but 2-3 over the past 4 years. 

Honest question. How many Oakland games have you actually watched of the 58 that Creasy and Jackson have been at the helm? I would guess very few. 

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