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Nainten

AAA 182

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30 minutes ago, sx1234 said:

I agree to a degree that some of you guys are taking this way too serious.

 

However I also agree that if you are going to take the time to make rankings, you should try to make them correct.  The sayings that "rankings dont matter" and "the only thing that matters is how they do at state" have become cliche and simply aren't true anymore.  Yes, performance at the end of the year is far more important, but to say rankings dont matter is completely false.  The kids get on their phones at tournaments and see what guys are ranked in their bracket, parents take pride when their son beats someone who is ranked higher than them, coaches often use them as a gauge to know when to make a bump in duals and yes they are often argued in seeding meetings.  For all those points and many others, I would say that rankings do matter- despite what older traditionalists seem to believe.

Hamm has an email address! You might think the old saying is old, but your opinion don’t mean a whole lot when you refuse to help! Hamm gets his rankings from coaches that email results and stuff that he can find on track and has much as he does good things track doesn’t have everything on it, so you have a crapshoot to put together rankings for everyone’s enjoyment! He doesn’t have to do them and when I wrestled there were no rankings, and kids now days that spend time on these make believe rankings need to have their phones taken from them and get their minds right. I rarely ever cared who I was wrestling, I couldn’t effect who I was seeded against all I could do is wrestle the kid in front of me! But again, Hamm will take as much help as possible, pretty sure he doesn’t get paid a dime for doing those rankings and it takes a lot of his time, so feel free to help him out with all of them. I mean it’s only 14 weight classes for 3 divisions with 6 kids in each. 

 

And PW you did complain about the rankings by saying if they are going to be done they should be done right. Hamm, I please ask that you message or whatever PW here and he will start assisting you with the rankings as will OW and sx1234. That right there is 3 extra people to make these so called important rankings much easier to do. If not Hamm I thank you for your service and I think you should retire and not even worry about them anymore and enjoy your new free time, that way it’s back to the good ole days of showing up and wrestling and not worrying if you were somehow short changed on your ranking in a meaningless ranking.  Thanks again Hamm and hopefully you have these new recruits and maybe you can pay them the same as what you make since I am sure they will be so helpful!

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8 hours ago, DaBears1976 said:

 I personally believe that those kids on those 4 teams doesn't have to prove to anyone about their rankings. They wrestle the most and biggest competition around. 

You completely proved my point!!! I knew if I gave you enough rope, you would hurt yourself.  The fact that you feel that kids on those 4 teams do not need to prove their ranking is exactly the Cleveland Factor and why Legacy Ranking is such an issue.  Obviously the poll voters also feel the same.  A wrestler from any of the teams other than the "power 4" must prove their worth in order to be ranked, but one from Bradley Co or Cleveland should just get the nod because their school has a history of success.  Using your logic the NFL should scrap the playoffs and put Greenbay and New England in the Superbowl each year.  

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8 hours ago, cobrakid8 said:

If not Hamm I thank you for your service and I think you should retire and not even worry about them anymore and enjoy your new free time, that way it’s back to the good ole days of showing up and wrestling and not worrying if you were somehow short changed on your ranking in a meaningless ranking.  

That would work out great for you since Soddy won't be sniffing the rankings for a while :lol::lol:

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I am going ahead and predicting Antcliffe will win state at 182. He is a beast! He manhandled Duffy and Duffy pinned Jones in the second period. The ranking are probably a little off but they will sort themselves out over the course of the season. Be patient....

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58 minutes ago, ObserverW said:

That would work out great for you since Soddy won't be sniffing the rankings for a while :lol::lol:

Dont worry, we still have banners hanging in the rafters while besides the Bros not a west school has EVER won a state title and this year wont be the first year either! Maybe instead of wrestling mats door to door in a basketball gym you guys should stick to basketball  :razz:       Also with pointing out kids like Lundy being ranked on legacy is ridiculous because he hasnt proven anything.  That would mean a freshman would NEVER start out ranked in your eyes which means some of those 4 timers never would have been ranked. People with actual wrestling knowledge know the studs coming up and the fact that Lundy has only lost to Pace from Baylor which doesnt matter since one is public and other private and a kid from out of state that is a multi time state champ. That would mean kids like Whitworth and Emory Taylor(which came out of Clevelands state best kids club Higher Calling) and Cody Chittum(another higher calling alum) wouldn't have been ranked. 

 

Now I would recommend maybe not even doing any rankings until later in the season, kind of like BCS or playoff rankings in football since there are so many weight changes and kids getting hurt and what not, but again the rankings are meaningless anyways just for the fact that some kids might drop multiple weight classes before season ends(meaning barely any actual matches at a certain weight and kids will get injured throughout season and not be able to wrestle by the end of the year.

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1 hour ago, cobrakid8 said:

Also with pointing out kids like Lundy being ranked on legacy is ridiculous because he hasnt proven anything.  That would mean a freshman would NEVER start out ranked in your eyes which means some of those 4 timers never would have been ranked. People with actual wrestling knowledge know the studs coming up and the fact that Lundy has only lost to Pace from Baylor which doesnt matter since one is public and other private and a kid from out of state that is a multi time state champ. 

I was only using Lundy as an example.  But again you prove my point.  There are several other wrestlers across the state at different weights who have the same accolades or better than Lundy who are not in the rankings because of the team they are on.  It is, in fact, the Cleveland Factor!  If Lundy was back at Hamilton, he would not be in the rankings.  

Lets look at a few examples, hey what do you know, right at 145:  Cole Klingensmith from Summit, former state medalist and also only 1 loss on the year.    

Ryan Brown, Lebanon at 170.  Undefeated on the year.  Not ranked.  

Edited by ObserverW

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41 minutes ago, ObserverW said:

I was only using Lundy as an example.  But again you prove my point.  There are several other wrestlers across the state at different weights who have the same accolades or better than Lundy who are not in the rankings because of the team they are on.  It is, in fact, the Cleveland Factor!  If Lundy was back at Hamilton, he would not be in the rankings.  

Lets look at a few examples, hey what do you know, right at 145:  Cole Klingensmith from Summit, former state medalist and also only 1 loss on the year.    

Ryan Brown, Lebanon at 170.  Undefeated on the year.  Not ranked.  

Lundy was ranked high as 3rd when he was at EH. Behind two very good state champs Landers and Mechaney. (Cleveland and Bradley). He would be ranked no matter what. He has been ranked bout every year he has wrestled. This crazy talk has got to stop at some point.

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1 hour ago, DaBears1976 said:

Lundy was ranked high as 3rd when he was at EH. Behind two very good state champs Landers and Mechaney. (Cleveland and Bradley). He would be ranked no matter what. He has been ranked bout every year he has wrestled. This crazy talk has got to stop at some point.

dabears, OW only knows crazy talk, so he wouldnt be allowed on the board if not. I was going to go back and prove he was wrong about Lundy at East Hamilton but he isnt worth my time and you know as you said he was ranked as high as 3rd when he was there!

 

Kligensmith beaten by number 2 kid from Sycamore Bass a A/AA kid, while Lundy was beaten by Andrew Pace 1st ranked in D2 and defending state champ. Hmmm, not sure i see the Cleveland bias in that one especially since they havent wrestled, maybe Summit will be down at a tourney Cleveland is at and we get to see that matchup. 

As far as 170 and Mr. Brown, I dont see a Cleveland or Bradley wrestler ranked at 170. I see Mr Fowler there and Diehl, Quinn, cockman, Gabe Smith seems to be pretty good also and he has wrestled up to 195 and down to 170 multiple times with a bunch of 182 in between. Now the MW kid Simerly I just dont see it. So with that maybe Mr. Brown deserves a top 6 ranking, but we just havent seen all that many cross wrestle each other to really know. I do see that Brown moved up to wrestle 182 against Mt. Juliet to try and win their dual although it didnt work. That would have been a good time to prove who was the best between Quinn and Brown, but those things happen.  

 

For 182 I do see Austin winning that class for now unless we start seeing some movement with others and the weight class.  

 

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33 minutes ago, cobrakid8 said:

Lundy was beaten by Andrew Pace 1st ranked in D2...

HAHAHAHA, so let me get this straight, rankings are a very very bad idea to use for seeding purposes in a tournament but they are valid and legitimate enough for you to use in trying to prove a point about another wrestler's validity in ranking.  :lol::lol::lol:  You must have two personalities and both have access to the same screen name.

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3 hours ago, ObserverW said:

HAHAHAHA, so let me get this straight, rankings are a very very bad idea to use for seeding purposes in a tournament but they are valid and legitimate enough for you to use in trying to prove a point about another wrestler's validity in ranking.  :lol::lol::lol:  You must have two personalities and both have access to the same screen name.

Well, how about defending state champ! Maybe that works better for you! I doubt it since you come from an area in the state where wrestling is pretty new, however defending state champion usually means pretty good no matter where the wrestler is ranked! And Champion since you don't know about what that is either since you don't have one individually or team state yet, means they beat everyone put in front of them at the big tournament at the end of year and took home first place.    Maybe you will get to learn what that is this year with Antcliffe.

 

and I used the rankings because people like you WHINE like a bunch of little babies about them, I guess if you first actually wrestle someone you might get noticed and wrestle other similar talented wrestlers you will make a name.

Edited by cobrakid8

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On ‎12‎/‎17‎/‎2018 at 4:51 PM, Hamm said:

Jones is the highest returning medalist at the weight.  1 lost in big schools while wrestling up a weight.  I'd be the LAST to rank someone for simply being from Cleveland.

 

On ‎12‎/‎17‎/‎2018 at 7:53 PM, Nainten said:

Negative.  It's one thing to call the rankings crap and disparage the work Hamm does.  It's another to bring up legitimate, constructive points.  For instance, Jones has one loss while wrestling up this year but it was to another 182er who was also wrestling up.  In fact Samuel Smith wrestled at 182 in his next two matches against Cookeville and Tullahoma on that same day.  So in my book that is a bad loss for the number one guy to -- by Hamm's own criteria -- an unranked opponent.  By that reason alone he should drop.  Also...to weaken the "returning medalist" consideration...aren't we far enough along this season that their body of work should outweigh last year's accomplishments.  I think so and given this both Sacarczyk and Antcliffe merit a higher rank.   Furthermore Antcliffe made it to the semi finals at 170 last year before medically forfeiting out to 6th place.  They never wrestled one another and any claim that Jones' 5th place is a better accomplishment in light of this is suspect at best.  Nevertheless if one has to be dogmatic I'll grudgingly concede this last point.    

Okay.  Antcliffe just wrestled down in Alabama today and took down the #15 ranked guy (nationally) at 182.  Will be interested to see if this affects the rankings, especially in light of the fact that Jones went to Florida and took two more losses (another by pin).    

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