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speakthetruth

AAA and DII State Recap

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3 minutes ago, CHSBLUE said:

I think Region 4 had the best team in duals and individuals so I don’t think it matters which one.

well CHS, the problem i have with people taking individual state team finishes into account is 2 fold

 

1. Not every region is created equal, what happens in one region where a team qualified all 14 kids  while another region a team like cleveland who killed in duals has 1-2 kids that most likely would place in any other region end up not even qualifying and because of that the team only takes 12? that is more points on the table for the team that takes 14 compared to 12, that can make a huge difference. 

2. The tournament is ONLY seeded for past state placers that actually WIN their region, so as we saw this weekend, a state final could really come close to taking place in quarters or even semi's because of not having any seeds and a bad blind draw, that in turn costs teams points.

That is why individual tourneys matter very little to me(i dont care of anyone else's opinion, a dual is the test in strength of the actual team.)

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1 hour ago, cobrakid8 said:

well CHS, the problem i have with people taking individual state team finishes into account is 2 fold

 

1. Not every region is created equal, what happens in one region where a team qualified all 14 kids  while another region a team like cleveland who killed in duals has 1-2 kids that most likely would place in any other region end up not even qualifying and because of that the team only takes 12? that is more points on the table for the team that takes 14 compared to 12, that can make a huge difference. 

2. The tournament is ONLY seeded for past state placers that actually WIN their region, so as we saw this weekend, a state final could really come close to taking place in quarters or even semi's because of not having any seeds and a bad blind draw, that in turn costs teams points.

That is why individual tourneys matter very little to me(i dont care of anyone else's opinion, a dual is the test in strength of the actual team.)

That’s just silly.

 

 

First off, Not all regions are created equal, I agree. Same goes for regions for state duals. Many times the third best team may find themselves sitting at home because only 2 qualify. Last i checked there were no wildcards. Secondly, most of the time there’s very little difference between the top teams in duals and the top teams in individuals. Thirdly, to say because of no seeding you can’t get a true measure is ludicrous. If there is a bad draw then the guy on the short end will most certainly come back to get third. There’s very little difference in points between second and third. Fourthly, coming through the wrestle backs you may have a better chance for pin points and, depending where you lose in the championship round, you may have more matches. Fifthly, In duals sometimes it comes down to who stalls the best (boy, isn’t that exciting) or who gets tech falled instead of pinned or what coach is better at shifting around their line up (many times not giving the fans the matchups they came to watch). Finally it’s hard to measure when teams forfeit out 

Edited by Newestguy

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2 hours ago, Newestguy said:

That’s just silly.

 

 

First off, Not all regions are created equal, I agree. Same goes for regions for state duals. Many times the third best team may find themselves sitting at home because only 2 qualify. Last i checked there were no wildcards. Secondly, most of the time there’s very little difference between the top teams in duals and the top teams in individuals. Thirdly, to say because of no seeding you can’t get a true measure is ludicrous. If there is a bad draw then the guy on the short end will most certainly come back to get third. There’s very little difference in points between second and third. Fourthly, coming through the wrestle backs you may have a better chance for pin points and, depending where you lose in the championship round, you may have more matches. Fifthly, In duals sometimes it comes down to who stalls the best (boy, isn’t that exciting) or who gets tech falled instead of pinned or what coach is better at shifting around their line up (many times not giving the fans the matchups they came to watch). Finally it’s hard to measure when teams forfeit out 

State duals would be much more fair that’s stupid! Because even if there is a third place team from another region that could be better that still means there are 2 teams better and even if those 2 teams finish 1st and 2nd they proved to be the best, same cannot be said for an individual tournament.

and as far as shifting around a lineup or wrestlers trying to keep from getting pinned or majored or what not guess what, that’s the name of any wrestling match. If someone is much better than me it’s their job to pin me or score points. If someone sits there flat down, let them up and take them back down, you can still Tech someone doing that and it’s their job to beat me, not me make it easier. And moving linesups around is sign of a strong and very deep team. If I can stick a JV wrestler out there and beat your butt, not my fault your varsity isn’t as good as my JV guy.

 

also go through the results and show me how many 3rd and 4th place wrestlers scored more compared to those that placed 1st or 2nd? Let me know the answer to that one. First because the BIGGEST points that can be scored are those for quarterfinals winners because they get their placement points, so as we saw with a few we had some tough matchups in quarters that did not allow a pretty dang good wrestler to earn those placement points that are more than those they get fighting their way through for 3rd.

Edited by cobrakid8

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5 hours ago, cobrakid8 said:

well CHS, the problem i have with people taking individual state team finishes into account is 2 fold

 

1. Not every region is created equal, what happens in one region where a team qualified all 14 kids  while another region a team like cleveland who killed in duals has 1-2 kids that most likely would place in any other region end up not even qualifying and because of that the team only takes 12? that is more points on the table for the team that takes 14 compared to 12, that can make a huge difference. 

2. The tournament is ONLY seeded for past state placers that actually WIN their region, so as we saw this weekend, a state final could really come close to taking place in quarters or even semi's because of not having any seeds and a bad blind draw, that in turn costs teams points.

That is why individual tourneys matter very little to me(i dont care of anyone else's opinion, a dual is the test in strength of the actual team.)

I get it. You’re a duals guy. Some would rather have (or watch) a team full of 5th place guys. That’s great. Personally I’d rather have or watch a team with 3 champs, and a few qualifiers. That’s just me.

To me the entire reason I wrestled was to pin the guy. That was always the object for me. Not to try to lose by a little. Everyone has different philosophies.

Edited by Newestguy
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26 minutes ago, Newestguy said:

I get it. You’re a duals guy. Some would rather have (or watch) a team full of 5th place guys. That’s great. Personally I’d rather have or watch a team with 3 champs, and a few qualifiers. That’s just me.

To me the entire reason I wrestled was to pin the guy. That was always the object for me. Not to try to lose by a little. Everyone has different philosophies.

You probably weren’t very good at it and your team sucked! Don’t worry higher calling can help little Jimmy or Tommy get better, you just got to make that drive! 

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19 minutes ago, cobrakid8 said:

You probably weren’t very good at it and your team sucked! Don’t worry higher calling can help little Jimmy or Tommy get better, you just got to make that drive! 

So it’s come down to insults. So I’ll leave it at this

1) I definitely wasn’t undefeated 

2) every time I wrestled (probably 500-600  matches) I always wrestled to pin the guy

Edited by Newestguy

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1 hour ago, cobrakid8 said:

also go through the results and show me how many 3rd and 4th place wrestlers scored more compared to those that placed 1st or 2nd? Let me know the answer to that one. First because the BIGGEST points that can be scored are those for quarterfinals winners because they get their placement points, so as we saw with a few we had some tough matchups in quarters that did not allow a pretty dang good wrestler to earn those placement points that are more than those they get fighting their way through for 3rd.

Well that was easy - the first two I looked at!

AAA 106 Chris Calvin - 2nd place - total points 25.5

AAA 106 Braden Ivy - 3rd place - total points 25.5

 

AAA 120 Andrew Artiles - 2nd place - total points 24

AAA 120 Jacob Haney - 3rd place - total points 25

 

Cobra- you are a moron.  Just because you spew it doesn't make it fact!

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2 minutes ago, ObserverW said:

Well that was easy - the first two I looked at!

AAA 106 Chris Calvin - 2nd place - total points 25.5

AAA 106 Braden Ivy - 3rd place - total points 25.5

 

AAA 120 Andrew Artiles - 2nd place - total points 24

AAA 120 Jacob Haney - 3rd place - total points 25

 

Cobra- you are a moron.  Just because you spew it doesn't make it fact!

LMAO

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17 minutes ago, ObserverW said:

Well that was easy - the first two I looked at!

AAA 106 Chris Calvin - 2nd place - total points 25.5

AAA 106 Braden Ivy - 3rd place - total points 25.5

 

AAA 120 Andrew Artiles - 2nd place - total points 24

AAA 120 Jacob Haney - 3rd place - total points 25

 

Cobra- you are a moron.  Just because you spew it doesn't make it fact!

Keep going, let’s see what the not small guys have done.  

 

And newest guy, don’t worry I am sure you saw the lights of the gym a few times, no matter how you go into a match the outcome isn’t always what you want and it’s great to have 3-4 champions and the rest a bunch of scrubs, but the best teams the actual best teams in the country top to bottom are the best with no holes, that’s what Bradley and Cleveland have done for years and I guess the way you guys look at it we can put it this way, Cleveland won, Baylor second with McCallie third and Wilson Central was 4th. See when you don’t wrestle head to head you don’t prove who the best is as a team. You find out who the best individual is, but not the best team. So we mine as well add 2 more Chattanooga area teams and just push back mighty Wilson Central to 4th, maybe it makes Bradley looks worse, but it’s funny to see the jealousy of those out there from everywhere else. OW has proven an idiot, we have seen that time and time again, his gate blinds him to the fact that even last year head2head his team Arlington lost to Soddy but yet Soddy being ranked he sounded like a whiny girl! So how about this, when another team from anywhere in the state wins a state title come back to me at that point, again Soddy themselves have won 4 titles compared to all other public schools outside of Chattanooga have won 3 total with 3 different schools! You aren’t on the Chattanooga level an it pisses you off, so instead of running your moth on a message board, get to work in the room, that’s where champions are made!

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31 minutes ago, ObserverW said:

Well that was easy - the first two I looked at!

AAA 106 Chris Calvin - 2nd place - total points 25.5

AAA 106 Braden Ivy - 3rd place - total points 25.5

 

AAA 120 Andrew Artiles - 2nd place - total points 24

AAA 120 Jacob Haney - 3rd place - total points 25

 

Cobra- you are a moron.  Just because you spew it doesn't make it fact!

Ok, I won't get into this childish name calling, but to further add to your point, Artilies beat Haney on top of that, by PIN fall

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19 minutes ago, cobrakid8 said:

Keep going, let’s see what the not small guys have done.  

 

And newest guy, don’t worry I am sure you saw the lights of the gym a few times, no matter how you go into a match the outcome isn’t always what you want and it’s great to have 3-4 champions and the rest a bunch of scrubs, but the best teams the actual best teams in the country top to bottom are the best with no holes, that’s what Bradley and Cleveland have done for years and I guess the way you guys look at it we can put it this way, Cleveland won, Baylor second with McCallie third and Wilson Central was 4th. See when you don’t wrestle head to head you don’t prove who the best is as a team. You find out who the best individual is, but not the best team. So we mine as well add 2 more Chattanooga area teams and just push back mighty Wilson Central to 4th, maybe it makes Bradley looks worse, but it’s funny to see the jealousy of those out there from everywhere else. OW has proven an idiot, we have seen that time and time again, his gate blinds him to the fact that even last year head2head his team Arlington lost to Soddy but yet Soddy being ranked he sounded like a whiny girl! So how about this, when another team from anywhere in the state wins a state title come back to me at that point, again Soddy themselves have won 4 titles compared to all other public schools outside of Chattanooga have won 3 total with 3 different schools! You aren’t on the Chattanooga level an it pisses you off, so instead of running your moth on a message board, get to work in the room, that’s where champions are made!

Soddy?

 

soddy scored a whopping 17 points with zero placers. They’ve been steadily declining  since the Turner brothers left. Not sure why you’re rambling about Soddy but it isn’t helping whatever point you’re trying to make (not really sure what point you are trying to make - with the exception of not understanding team scoring at individual tournaments).

Edited by Newestguy

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