TNUSAWRESTLING Fargo Questionnaire

[taketop]

It appears Bowers and his supporters have a lot (or very little, whatever the case may be) in common with him. 

The "toxic" environment has been created by Ben and no one else.  I have been around wrestling for a fair amount of time and things have never been like this before. As a matter of fact, I have seen any organization in this kind of shape.

It is not "toxic" for people who have had enough of him to speak up and say so.  It seems a large percentage of the people who have had any dealing with him do not want any more (and most of them seem to only want to be give their kids a chance to wrestle).  So, either everyone who knows him is absolutely crazy or this dude is the only "toxic" part of the deal. If no one want to be around you or even deal with you then it probably ain't everyone else.  It's you.  Any person with an ounce of integrity or pride would not continue to try and do a job they are obviously incapable of. 

Apply Occam's Razor and tell me the solution. 

[PurpleWrestler]

3 hours ago, taketop said:

It appears Bowers and his supporters have a lot (or very little, whatever the case may be) in common with him. 

The "toxic" environment has been created by Ben and no one else.  I have been around wrestling for a fair amount of time and things have never been like this before. As a matter of fact, I have seen any organization in this kind of shape.

It is not "toxic" for people who have had enough of him to speak up and say so.  It seems a large percentage of the people who have had any dealing with him do not want any more (and most of them seem to only want to be give their kids a chance to wrestle).  So, either everyone who knows him is absolutely crazy or this dude is the only "toxic" part of the deal. If no one want to be around you or even deal with you then it probably ain't everyone else.  It's you.  Any person with an ounce of integrity or pride would not continue to try and do a job they are obviously incapable of. 

Apply Occam's Razor and tell me the solution. 

So let me get this straight, since I have not seen anything personally that would classify as "toxic", and I haven't seen a single post that would make me think he's "toxic", I am supposed to just go with what you are saying?

I'm not seeing anything where the state wrestling is in any worse shape than before he took over. YES, we are arguing the cost of Fargo, and should. I liked Scott's proposal and told him so. I have not heard back from Ben on this, but I think his survey was to get a feel for how many kids are thinking about going to Fargo, and then try to figure out things from there. But some of the changes are coming down from USA Wrestling, and not Ben. Such as staying as a team, etc

[Ummmno]

1 hour ago, PurpleWrestler said:

", and I haven't seen a single post that would make me think he's "toxic",

yeah its not like he was run out of Cleveland or anything. I've never ever heard of him having issues with parents or wrestlers, especially last year at the junior duals. Not to mention nobody has ever had a bad thing to say about him.

 

but by all means, just because YOU like the guy he should absolutely stay in his position.

[PurpleWrestler]

5 minutes ago, Ummmno said:

yeah its not like he was run out of Cleveland or anything. I've never ever heard of him having issues with parents or wrestlers, especially last year at the junior duals. Not to mention nobody has ever had a bad thing to say about him.

 

but by all means, just because YOU like the guy he should absolutely stay in his position.

Are you even reading what is being written? You still haven’t said one thing that shows anything that would make someone say “toxic” 

[SAC]

Purple wrestler, introduce yourself... Things will be so much easier to discuss when we're all honest here. By the way, my name is Eric. I'm sure with my screen name and signature line it isn't hard to figure out the rest. Lots of deception is what many would refer to as toxic. 

[taketop]

Note the quotation marks.  They denote that the word was used previously.  But since you asked, he cheats, he lies, there is no transparency with the finances, people are yelling at him at the board meetings,  and people want nothing to do with anything he has a hand in.  Sounds pretty "toxic" to me.

[PurpleWrestler]

1 hour ago, taketop said:

Note the quotation marks.  They denote that the word was used previously.  But since you asked, he cheats, he lies, there is no transparency with the finances, people are yelling at him at the board meetings,  and people want nothing to do with anything he has a hand in.  Sounds pretty "toxic" to me.

As for the use of the word toxic, I'm pretty sure you are the only one that has used that word. Others have said other things, but again I see about 6 people so far that have an issue. Sounds like a disagreement, not sure I would classify that as toxic. I don't agree with everything he does, but wouldn't go a far to say it's toxic. I just hash it out, and state my points. And some of those people I question, because they like to claim that everyone that does not side with them is another Bowers profile. So we may be down to 1 or 2 people that I have seen on here that I would have a rational discussion with about this.

But again, everything that you have stated is a generality. I would think the board would see all the finances, if not that is on them.

Edited April 29, 2019 by PurpleWrestler

[taketop]

On 4/24/2019 at 2:13 AM, SilverKittyFox said:

Isn't this post about trying to help the Board figure out how to control cost? From what I am reading, its a post with the thought to HELP.

Why do you people (JIII, Durdon, and Ummmno) always make things so TOXIC. From what I can tell 2 of you are from Cleveland, isn't that where Bowers is from, seems as if you just want some pay back. Suck it up butter cup and move on. Revenge is for the weak, do something positive and HELP the Board and not your selves. Have you ever called anyone from the BOARD and asked what you can do to help. Seems like a great place to start. 

From what I can tell reading through the USA web site, there are 12 or 13 members of the board, so if there are that many members how can Bowers be the issue. Durdon you seem so sure of your self, are you on the BOARD. You always have some half baked idea of how things work. If there are that many members of the BOARD, then how can Bowers just as you say "Rewrote the rules". From what I read it takes 2/3rd Vote to amend the BYLAWS, that is the term you are looking for DURDON. 

Now lets talk about the real issue, SUPPORT for the State. If USA wrestling is helping (EXAMPLE IRONMAN being a great event) then why don't the LOUD mouth go to the events and Help, make an effort to make a difference. In my OPINION, BOWERS is doing what is HELPING everyone not just a part of the STATE. This from someone who sees the efforts of the whole BOARD.

Stop being TOXIC.  

ok purple, here it is,  quoted from this post.  It's on the first page of this thread in bold print no less.

Also, the things I stated are not generalities, they are specific, literal things that have happened.  Perhaps it is you that is too uninformed about this situation to comment.

Edited April 30, 2019 by taketop

[PurpleWrestler]

2 hours ago, taketop said:

ok purple, here it is,  quoted from this post.  It's on the first page of this thread in bold print no less.

Also, the things I stated are not generalities, they are specific, literal things that have happened.  Perhaps it is you that is too uninformed about this situation to comment.

I guess we just have a misunderstanding of the word "specifics" vs "generalities".

[Ummmno]

8 minutes ago, PurpleWrestler said:

I guess we just have a misunderstanding of the word "specifics" vs "generalities".

someone gave the very very specific example of the incident at junior duals. it may not have been on this thread but it was mentioned on coachT not long ago. Him holding money and refusing to pay tournament hosts and referees is another specific example.

 

I think YOU"RE the one confused on the difference in the two words. How can you even begin to defend him? You keep saying that we're wrong in what we're saying but aren't actually saying anything about him. What are your experiences with him that make him so great and suited to hold the position he holds? Please explain to me how you think Ben Bowers is a better person to hold that chair position than Al Miller.

 

Don't answer any questions until you answer that last one. I will wait.

Edited April 30, 2019 by Ummmno

[PurpleWrestler]

31 minutes ago, Ummmno said:

someone gave the very very specific example of the incident at junior duals. it may not have been on this thread but it was mentioned on coachT not long ago. Him holding money and refusing to pay tournament hosts and referees is another specific example.

 

I think YOU"RE the one confused on the difference in the two words. How can you even begin to defend him? You keep saying that we're wrong in what we're saying but aren't actually saying anything about him. What are your experiences with him that make him so great and suited to hold the position he holds? Please explain to me how you think Ben Bowers is a better person to hold that chair position than Al Miller.

 

Don't answer any questions until you answer that last one. I will wait.

I never said you or anyone else was wrong. I said YOU and a couple others lost credibility when you accuse everyone that doesn't jump on board with you of being Bowers.

And I'm not defending anyone. This all started with me saying, that if someone has an issue, then step up and run for the position. But all this complaining isn't getting us anywhere. So does that answer your question. My question was for specifics, and I can promise you this, when there is one side of a story, often there is another. NOT all the time, but often. So he held money, but did he give it in the end? So was their a reason that he held it? I know in business, I have held money until things were completed, not sure what the story was here, but did you ask him? You personally? Or are you confused on who he is?

[Ummmno]

19 minutes ago, PurpleWrestler said:

 So he held money, but did he give it in the end? So was their a reason that he held it? ?

If this is you trying to rationalize him refusing to pay people for hosting tournaments for years and short checking refs then you're a joke. Again, stop sticking up for the guy.