Haywood and Dusty Rhodes

[BigEdMo]

51 minutes ago, ReitzFan said:

BigEd,

Looks like another man in blue was just smoked out. A newbie to the board and one who hides his information as well. Could it be possible for an umpire to misinterprete what is an illegal stance and what is not an illegal stance? That has not been brought up as a question to my knowledge. Something tells me that there is really more to this than what has been published. I also wonder if a bear may have been poked and prodded into behavior that is not proper. These are questions that we may never find answers to.

Hahahaha. Reitz you made that look to easy. 

[BBStuart]

3 hours ago, ReitzFan said:

BigEd,

Looks like another man in blue was just smoked out. A newbie to the board and one who hides his information as well. Could it be possible for an umpire to misinterprete what is an illegal stance and what is not an illegal stance? That has not been brought up as a question to my knowledge. Something tells me that there is really more to this than what has been published. I also wonder if a bear may have been poked and prodded into behavior that is not proper. These are questions that we may never find answers to.

Here's some info.  First year of umpiring baseball in TN in 1995.  Have been umpiring high school, college and independent pro ball in the Coachella Valley since 1996.  I do know a little bit about baseball rules and see pitchers try to take advantage of the hybrid rule nearly every game.  Since this rule has been around since at least 2014, it's not as if coaches and pitchers don't know about it.  Now, there are some stubborn umpires who don't like the rule and refuse to call it.  Kind of like the guys who don't call the force play slide rule because they didn't have that rule when they played ball in the 1970's.  It just so happens that when an umpire who does make that call is seen as making the game about himself.  And you hear from the coaches how nobody else calls that.  I seriously doubt that nobody has either called it or let the pitcher know to get his feet right or you will call it.  Preventive officiating.  When you get to the point of your state playoffs, you better have your pitchers in the right stance.  You can't be waringing the pitcher at that point.  Oh, I lived in Millington, Tn in 1995 and high school baseball was fantastic that year in that area.  Germantown hs actually was the #1 ranked team in the nation and I believe Phil Clark was the HS Coach of The Year.  Learned a lot there, but I also learned I hated tornadoes and humidity.  Grew up in a small town in Mo. complete with humidity, tornadoes and bugs.  Great hunting.

[BigEdMo]

2 hours ago, BBStuart said:

Here's some info.  First year of umpiring baseball in TN in 1995.  Have been umpiring high school, college and independent pro ball in the Coachella Valley since 1996.  I do know a little bit about baseball rules and see pitchers try to take advantage of the hybrid rule nearly every game.  Since this rule has been around since at least 2014, it's not as if coaches and pitchers don't know about it.  Now, there are some stubborn umpires who don't like the rule and refuse to call it.  Kind of like the guys who don't call the force play slide rule because they didn't have that rule when they played ball in the 1970's.  It just so happens that when an umpire who does make that call is seen as making the game about himself.  And you hear from the coaches how nobody else calls that.  I seriously doubt that nobody has either called it or let the pitcher know to get his feet right or you will call it.  Preventive officiating.  When you get to the point of your state playoffs, you better have your pitchers in the right stance.  You can't be waringing the pitcher at that point.  Oh, I lived in Millington, Tn in 1995 and high school baseball was fantastic that year in that area.  Germantown hs actually was the #1 ranked team in the nation and I believe Phil Clark was the HS Coach of The Year.  Learned a lot there, but I also learned I hated tornadoes and humidity.  Grew up in a small town in Mo. complete with humidity, tornadoes and bugs.  Great hunting.

The key point you are missing is the word inconsistency. When most don’t call it and one does then it is natural to say the ump made it about himself. And by the the way the coach Who acted completely out of line impede just as much as you have on many levels also. Also there are many people on here also that Know ball. I also Know that even umpires can provoke a situation with a simple comment from authority.  To me the door swings both ways. It’s easy to point the finger at the coach. It’s always harder for the ump to grow a pair say he may have been wrong also. Just my opinion. Just shakin the bush boss!!

[tradertwo]

3 hours ago, BBStuart said:

Here's some info.  First year of umpiring baseball in TN in 1995.  Have been umpiring high school, college and independent pro ball in the Coachella Valley since 1996.  I do know a little bit about baseball rules and see pitchers try to take advantage of the hybrid rule nearly every game.  Since this rule has been around since at least 2014, it's not as if coaches and pitchers don't know about it.  Now, there are some stubborn umpires who don't like the rule and refuse to call it.  Kind of like the guys who don't call the force play slide rule because they didn't have that rule when they played ball in the 1970's.  It just so happens that when an umpire who does make that call is seen as making the game about himself.  And you hear from the coaches how nobody else calls that.  I seriously doubt that nobody has either called it or let the pitcher know to get his feet right or you will call it.  Preventive officiating.  When you get to the point of your state playoffs, you better have your pitchers in the right stance.  You can't be waringing the pitcher at that point.  Oh, I lived in Millington, Tn in 1995 and high school baseball was fantastic that year in that area.  Germantown hs actually was the #1 ranked team in the nation and I believe Phil Clark was the HS Coach of The Year.  Learned a lot there, but I also learned I hated tornadoes and humidity.  Grew up in a small town in Mo. complete with humidity, tornadoes and bugs.  Great hunting.

Since you seem genuine about expressing your opinion instead of adopting the position "the ump is right because he's the ump", I have to ask...

   In piecing together "relevant" aspects of your post, you have officiated high school games since 1996... the rule has been around since 2014... you know the rule and see it violated in almost every game. If I read that correctly, do you call it, do you always call it if ever, and if you do, do you explain to coach/player what triggers the violation, or expect that it's the coach's responsibility to know the fine points of the infraction, and correct the players stance on his own?

   Believe me when I say that Dusty is cagey enough that he would argue the call (to a point) even if he knew that his pitcher violated the rule. Believe me also that Dusty would never jeopardize his chances of winning a game (playoff game x10), even if he felt that he was right, unless something (someone) triggered anything resembling the antics in that game. I have personally seen Dusty get a call reversed that he, the other coach, the officials, the players, and at least 75% of the fans knew was right before he contested it... but he never raised his voice, and would have laughed about it after the game if the official had stood his ground.

   If you want to understand the position of the handful of us who question not the fact that Dusty was wrong in his actions, but the chance that the ump acted inappropriately toward the coach, and should bear some (not all) the responsibility for the incident... read the entire thread and watch the video.

[BigEdMo]

16 hours ago, tradertwo said:

Since you seem genuine about expressing your opinion instead of adopting the position "the ump is right because he's the ump", I have to ask...

   In piecing together "relevant" aspects of your post, you have officiated high school games since 1996... the rule has been around since 2014... you know the rule and see it violated in almost every game. If I read that correctly, do you call it, do you always call it if ever, and if you do, do you explain to coach/player what triggers the violation, or expect that it's the coach's responsibility to know the fine points of the infraction, and correct the players stance on his own?

   Believe me when I say that Dusty is cagey enough that he would argue the call (to a point) even if he knew that his pitcher violated the rule. Believe me also that Dusty would never jeopardize his chances of winning a game (playoff game x10), even if he felt that he was right, unless something (someone) triggered anything resembling the antics in that game. I have personally seen Dusty get a call reversed that he, the other coach, the officials, the players, and at least 75% of the fans knew was right before he contested it... but he never raised his voice, and would have laughed about it after the game if the official had stood his ground.

   If you want to understand the position of the handful of us who question not the fact that Dusty was wrong in his actions, but the chance that the ump acted inappropriately toward the coach, and should bear some (not all) the responsibility for the incident... read the entire thread and watch the video.

Bingo

[Intense]

21 hours ago, BigEdMo said:

Bingo

Yes!  Preach it Trader!!

[tradertwo]

On ‎7‎/‎23‎/‎2019 at 12:48 PM, Intense said:

Yes!  Preach it Trader!!

Nothing more frustrating than considering someone's opinion genuine, and trying to engage them with some conversation about a subject that we see from different angles... only to figure out two and a half days later that they had just found a more tactful way to say that their opinion is the only one that matters, no matter how you attempt to slice it... SHEESH... could have saved me the trouble of trying to make some sense of his post.

[BigEdMo]

1 hour ago, tradertwo said:

Nothing more frustrating than considering someone's opinion genuine, and trying to engage them with some conversation about a subject that we see from different angles... only to figure out two and a half days later that they had just found a more tactful way to say that their opinion is the only one that matters, no matter how you attempt to slice it... SHEESH... could have saved me the trouble of trying to make some sense of his post.

Hahaha. Brother how are things on the Hill. Had a chance to meet and talk with coach Lott the other day. 

[tradertwo]

Just now, BigEdMo said:

Hahaha. Brother how are things on the Hill. Had a chance to meet and talk with coach Lott the other day. 

Great! Moving in the right direction, just takes longer to build than to tear down. Coach is exactly the guy inside that he appears on the outside, and I have no doubt that we'll be "back" before long, and that the foundation will be deep. Sounds like a cliche', but character, behavior, and brotherhood come before anything else, including football and baseball. Coach Harken will be impossible to "replace" but for the time being, baseball is in very capable hands with Woodmore… Football is where the work comes in, but we've got our guy and he's already making big strides... all smiles in Lion Land!!!

[Stonewall]

I have followed this story with great interest while staying out of the discussion.  My involvement with the TSSAA goes back almost 30 years and I was an ardent defender of them back then.  My sentiments were along the lines of "you try governing the whole state and see how hard it is."  The passage of time has completely flipped my opinions and this case is a perfect example of why.  The TSSAA is a money hungry, meddling, and increasingly liberal organization that is still feeling the effects of Ronnie Carter to this day.  Their officials can be blatantly caught in the wrong when it comes to controversy, but they will cover their butts and defend the officials every time.  As for the Haywood situation, another classic example....If you as an organization say that you can't control coach firings, then so be it; that was your decision.  What it comes down to is a Mafia-type threat that says, "Kill him and we'll spare you.  Let him live and we'll kill you and your kids."  Sophomores at Haywood will never play in  a state playoff game because of  punishment handed down that would far better suit being caught in widespread cheating and recruiting.  Possibilities from witnesses have been expressed on earlier pages that said this escalated because of umpires taking a "it's right because I said so" position.  I can't count the number of times I have seen arrogant officials in every sport take that position.  I was directly behind a basketball bench one night when I saw a coach get hit with a technical because he said, "That wasn't a walk."  He got T'd up and the official walked over and said, "It's a walk because I said it's a walk."  Space won't allow me to cite far worse examples.  In a perfect world, high schools would unite and leave the TSSAA and form their own federation.  Spare me the "horrible example in front of kids" speech.  Parents forfeited that innocence long ago when they turned High School baseball into years of travel ball, massive money being spent, yelling at umpires, personal hitting/pitching coaches, and firing coaches that didn't get their kids to a full ride at Vanderbilt.  

[tradertwo]

11 hours ago, Stonewall said:

I have followed this story with great interest while staying out of the discussion.  My involvement with the TSSAA goes back almost 30 years and I was an ardent defender of them back then.  My sentiments were along the lines of "you try governing the whole state and see how hard it is."  The passage of time has completely flipped my opinions and this case is a perfect example of why.  The TSSAA is a money hungry, meddling, and increasingly liberal organization that is still feeling the effects of Ronnie Carter to this day.  Their officials can be blatantly caught in the wrong when it comes to controversy, but they will cover their butts and defend the officials every time.  As for the Haywood situation, another classic example....If you as an organization say that you can't control coach firings, then so be it; that was your decision.  What it comes down to is a Mafia-type threat that says, "Kill him and we'll spare you.  Let him live and we'll kill you and your kids."  Sophomores at Haywood will never play in  a state playoff game because of  punishment handed down that would far better suit being caught in widespread cheating and recruiting.  Possibilities from witnesses have been expressed on earlier pages that said this escalated because of umpires taking a "it's right because I said so" position.  I can't count the number of times I have seen arrogant officials in every sport take that position.  I was directly behind a basketball bench one night when I saw a coach get hit with a technical because he said, "That wasn't a walk."  He got T'd up and the official walked over and said, "It's a walk because I said it's a walk."  Space won't allow me to cite far worse examples.  In a perfect world, high schools would unite and leave the TSSAA and form their own federation.  Spare me the "horrible example in front of kids" speech.  Parents forfeited that innocence long ago when they turned High School baseball into years of travel ball, massive money being spent, yelling at umpires, personal hitting/pitching coaches, and firing coaches that didn't get their kids to a full ride at Vanderbilt.  

Einstein, Plato, Socrates... and this guy!

[BigEdMo]

12 hours ago, Stonewall said:

I have followed this story with great interest while staying out of the discussion.  My involvement with the TSSAA goes back almost 30 years and I was an ardent defender of them back then.  My sentiments were along the lines of "you try governing the whole state and see how hard it is."  The passage of time has completely flipped my opinions and this case is a perfect example of why.  The TSSAA is a money hungry, meddling, and increasingly liberal organization that is still feeling the effects of Ronnie Carter to this day.  Their officials can be blatantly caught in the wrong when it comes to controversy, but they will cover their butts and defend the officials every time.  As for the Haywood situation, another classic example....If you as an organization say that you can't control coach firings, then so be it; that was your decision.  What it comes down to is a Mafia-type threat that says, "Kill him and we'll spare you.  Let him live and we'll kill you and your kids."  Sophomores at Haywood will never play in  a state playoff game because of  punishment handed down that would far better suit being caught in widespread cheating and recruiting.  Possibilities from witnesses have been expressed on earlier pages that said this escalated because of umpires taking a "it's right because I said so" position.  I can't count the number of times I have seen arrogant officials in every sport take that position.  I was directly behind a basketball bench one night when I saw a coach get hit with a technical because he said, "That wasn't a walk."  He got T'd up and the official walked over and said, "It's a walk because I said it's a walk."  Space won't allow me to cite far worse examples.  In a perfect world, high schools would unite and leave the TSSAA and form their own federation.  Spare me the "horrible example in front of kids" speech.  Parents forfeited that innocence long ago when they turned High School baseball into years of travel ball, massive money being spent, yelling at umpires, personal hitting/pitching coaches, and firing coaches that didn't get their kids to a full ride at Vanderbilt.  

That is wisdom 1000%. That is all some of us have tried to interject. But you have done it perfectly. Thank you for your insight.