Haywood and Dusty Rhodes

[tradertwo]

I agree with most everyone's opinion on this, especially BPM's, and Southtowner's reasoning... having said that, I'll bet dinner that Dusty was right in principal, if waaayyy over the top in reaction. Dusty doesn't go out of his way to be likeable, but he knows baseball inside out and backward. If the blue made a reasonable attempt at an explanation of the calls, I can't believe that Coach would risk elimination (before the ejection) by his antics. Whether his ejection was warranted or quick triggered, the rest is just Dusty being Dusty.

[BigEdMo]

7 hours ago, tradertwo said:

I agree with most everyone's opinion on this, especially BPM's, and Southtowner's reasoning... having said that, I'll bet dinner that Dusty was right in principal, if waaayyy over the top in reaction. Dusty doesn't go out of his way to be likeable, but he knows baseball inside out and backward. If the blue made a reasonable attempt at an explanation of the calls, I can't believe that Coach would risk elimination (before the ejection) by his antics. Whether his ejection was warranted or quick triggered, the rest is just Dusty being Dusty.

Bingo. The man knows baseball. And the mold was broke when Dusty was made for sure. 

[MAD SCIENCE]

17 hours ago, tradertwo said:

I agree with most everyone's opinion on this, especially BPM's, and Southtowner's reasoning... having said that, I'll bet dinner that Dusty was right in principal, if waaayyy over the top in reaction. Dusty doesn't go out of his way to be likeable, but he knows baseball inside out and backward. If the blue made a reasonable attempt at an explanation of the calls, I can't believe that Coach would risk elimination (before the ejection) by his antics. Whether his ejection was warranted or quick triggered, the rest is just Dusty being Dusty.

I read were the coach said he was never confined to the dugout. Can one of the other umpires testify he was confined to the dugout. Do not like the way the coach acted after he was ejected , but who messed up first? The coach or the umpire?

[wingman10]

[MAD SCIENCE]

On 6/1/2019 at 2:37 AM, TryNotToSuck said:

Umpire don’t half to give out warnings.

That's the type of attitude that gives umpires and refs a bad Rap. Don't you think a decent human would warn a coach before they ejected him? In the video the coach did not seem out of line in his body language until he was ejected. 

[BIGPURPLEMACHINE]

2 hours ago, MAD SCIENCE said:

I read were the coach said he was never confined to the dugout. Can one of the other umpires testify he was confined to the dugout. Do not like the way the coach acted after he was ejected , but who messed up first? The coach or the umpire?

In my eyes (and others may disagree with me) it does not matter what the umpire did. You simply cannot behave the way he did. As a leader of young men that type of behavior cannot be tolerated. Some will say it’s not his job to mold their character it’s his job to win baseball games. I totally disagree. It is both. He has to to put his players in the best situation to win. And when adversity comes, as it does in everyone’s life, he has to show the how to handle it responsibly. 

[BigEdMo]

53 minutes ago, BIGPURPLEMACHINE said:

In my eyes (and others may disagree with me) it does not matter what the umpire did. You simply cannot behave the way he did. As a leader of young men that type of behavior cannot be tolerated. Some will say it’s not his job to mold their character it’s his job to win baseball games. I totally disagree. It is both. He has to to put his players in the best situation to win. And when adversity comes, as it does in everyone’s life, he has to show the how to handle it responsibly. 

I do Not condone the way he handled it. I do Know people involved with the program and outside  the program that was there. Dusty was standing up for his boys. I was Told he was not detained to the dugout even though that is not a given to kick one out. The issue to me and others is that Dusty knows the game. He himself is an umpire even at the college level. Something happened and something was said to send him over the edge. It is easy to point the finger at the one who openly looked like a jack ####. But I do Believe sometimes the attention should be towards the one who poked first. And I am Sorry over all of my tears I have Seen a progression in umpires and refs attitude as if the are holy and that they can not be touched. Yes myself can get emotional during a game and the refs have a tough job. But don’t put yourself on a pedestal because it is a long way down when it gets kicked out from under. Again I do Not condone how Dusty handled it. There is more to it. 

[BIGPURPLEMACHINE]

1 minute ago, BigEdMo said:

I do Not condone the way he handled it. I do Know people involved with the program and outside  the program that was there. Dusty was standing up for his boys. I was Told he was not detained to the dugout even though that is not a given to kick one out. The issue to me and others is that Dusty knows the game. He himself is an umpire even at the college level. Something happened and something was said to send him over the edge. It is easy to point the finger at the one who openly looked like a jack ####. But I do Believe sometimes the attention should be towards the one who poked first. And I am Sorry over all of my tears I have Seen a progression in umpires and refs attitude as if the are holy and that they can not be touched. Yes myself can get emotional during a game and the refs have a tough job. But don’t put yourself on a pedestal because it is a long way down when it gets kicked out from under. Again I do Not condone how Dusty handled it. There is more to it. 

Don’t get me wrong. I totally agree there are refs and umps out there that can do some jacked up stuff. And from everyone on hear that speaks highly of the coach I have no doubt he knows his stuff. I just feel that there is a way to stick up for your kids without doing what he did. And if the ump did do something inappropriate I hope he is disciplined by the TSSAA as well. 

[Southtowner]

Here are some tweets taken from Stephen Hargis on the matter.  Along with a link to the Chattanooga Times Free Press article covering such.

 

The official umpire's report to TSSAA in regards to the Haywood coaches incident: "Dusty approaches me from dugout. I advised him pitcher was in a Hybrid Stance and that is illegal in high school baseball. I gave him a polite educational discussion about the Hybrid and what ... 

 

 the pitcher can and cannot do with his Windup. Dusty completes a mound visit. This pitch was called a strike by Home Plate umpire, but changed upon finding out time was called (now 3-0 count). Dusty approaches me again regarding the Hybrid Stance, this time visibly upset ..

 

"He challenges the validity of the Hybrid Stance call. Due to previous interaction and Dusty's escalating behavior (previous warning), I immediately restricted him to the dugout. I began to walk away toward the second base. Dusty pursued continuing to argue the call and ... 

 

"restriction. I turned and ejected Dusty for continuing to argue after restriction. Dusty's anger was immediate. He began to kick dirt all over me and my shoes. As I was walking away, his kicking motion connected with my feet and I began to trip (although, catching myself ... 

 

 "and not going to the ground). He kept saying something along the lines of, “You can't throw me out of this game.” I also was called a “piece of ####” multiple times. He also continued to make contact with me (chest bump) as I was walking away (this occurred multiple times ...

 

"during the event). After the dirt kicking and chest bumping Eddie Pye arrived to defuse. He did his best to control Dusty, but Dusty evaded Eddie multiple times and reached me to arrive directly in my face. While arguing in my face, I was spit on multiple times ... 

 

 "I moved away each time. I reached Centerfield/2B area before Dusty was removed from me. After the ejection I said no words whatsoever. I took up position in RF, moving to 1B line while situation was being handled by other two umpires...

 

"During Dusty's ejection, the Haywood bench (players and coaching staff) had completely evacuated the bench area and joined the field. Most continuing to argue with Eddie Pye and Kenny Lee as they tried to control the situation (players included) ... 

 

 "A few personnel did attempt to restrain Dusty, although I do not know the exact names or identities. As I was busy with Dusty, Kenny Lee ejected Asst. Coach for swearing (Alex Whitwell). I did not witness the Kenny Lee ejection. Heard about it after the game. ...

 

"Dusty continued to argue for over 10 minutes and would not leave the field. His anger and rage were uncontrollable." 

 

 Just spoke with TSSAA executive director Bernard Childress who said, in regards to the punishment affecting the players more than the coaches: “It's a very difficult call for us because we are an organization that can not discipline school employees. ...

 

"The way our constitution is written, we're limited in what we can do. Our hands are tied because we can only penalize the athletic program since it's those programs that are members of the TSSAA. That's why we ask the schools to tell us what they're going to do. ... 

 

 "It's up to the administrators to take action that is appropriate for whatever the violation is and in this incident, the action that the school administration had submitted was not appropriate for the behavior of their coaches. ...

 

We have to penalize appropriately so we can send a clear message to others that this will not be tolerated.” 

 

 In short, since the TSSAA can not discipline school employees (coaches), had school administrators handed down a stiffer punishment on its coaches, the state organization would’ve likely accepted it. As it was, TSSAA had to hand down stronger punishment to send message to others.  

 

https://www.timesfreepress.com/news/breakingnews/story/2019/may/31/tssaa-punishes-haywood-baseball/495782/  

[BigEdMo]

1 hour ago, Southtowner said:

Here are some tweets taken from Stephen Hargis on the matter.  Along with a link to the Chattanooga Times Free Press article covering such.

 

The official umpire's report to TSSAA in regards to the Haywood coaches incident: "Dusty approaches me from dugout. I advised him pitcher was in a Hybrid Stance and that is illegal in high school baseball. I gave him a polite educational discussion about the Hybrid and what ... 

 

 the pitcher can and cannot do with his Windup. Dusty completes a mound visit. This pitch was called a strike by Home Plate umpire, but changed upon finding out time was called (now 3-0 count). Dusty approaches me again regarding the Hybrid Stance, this time visibly upset ..

 

"He challenges the validity of the Hybrid Stance call. Due to previous interaction and Dusty's escalating behavior (previous warning), I immediately restricted him to the dugout. I began to walk away toward the second base. Dusty pursued continuing to argue the call and ... 

 

"restriction. I turned and ejected Dusty for continuing to argue after restriction. Dusty's anger was immediate. He began to kick dirt all over me and my shoes. As I was walking away, his kicking motion connected with my feet and I began to trip (although, catching myself ... 

 

 "and not going to the ground). He kept saying something along the lines of, “You can't throw me out of this game.” I also was called a “piece of ####” multiple times. He also continued to make contact with me (chest bump) as I was walking away (this occurred multiple times ...

 

"during the event). After the dirt kicking and chest bumping Eddie Pye arrived to defuse. He did his best to control Dusty, but Dusty evaded Eddie multiple times and reached me to arrive directly in my face. While arguing in my face, I was spit on multiple times ... 

 

 "I moved away each time. I reached Centerfield/2B area before Dusty was removed from me. After the ejection I said no words whatsoever. I took up position in RF, moving to 1B line while situation was being handled by other two umpires...

 

"During Dusty's ejection, the Haywood bench (players and coaching staff) had completely evacuated the bench area and joined the field. Most continuing to argue with Eddie Pye and Kenny Lee as they tried to control the situation (players included) ... 

 

 "A few personnel did attempt to restrain Dusty, although I do not know the exact names or identities. As I was busy with Dusty, Kenny Lee ejected Asst. Coach for swearing (Alex Whitwell). I did not witness the Kenny Lee ejection. Heard about it after the game. ...

 

"Dusty continued to argue for over 10 minutes and would not leave the field. His anger and rage were uncontrollable." 

 

 Just spoke with TSSAA executive director Bernard Childress who said, in regards to the punishment affecting the players more than the coaches: “It's a very difficult call for us because we are an organization that can not discipline school employees. ...

 

"The way our constitution is written, we're limited in what we can do. Our hands are tied because we can only penalize the athletic program since it's those programs that are members of the TSSAA. That's why we ask the schools to tell us what they're going to do. ... 

 

 "It's up to the administrators to take action that is appropriate for whatever the violation is and in this incident, the action that the school administration had submitted was not appropriate for the behavior of their coaches. ...

 

We have to penalize appropriately so we can send a clear message to others that this will not be tolerated.” 

 

 In short, since the TSSAA can not discipline school employees (coaches), had school administrators handed down a stiffer punishment on its coaches, the state organization would’ve likely accepted it. As it was, TSSAA had to hand down stronger punishment to send message to others.  

 

https://www.timesfreepress.com/news/breakingnews/story/2019/may/31/tssaa-punishes-haywood-baseball/495782/  

I will State this first. I do Not condone Dusty’s actions. But I will Say this. I know All to well that when I was And am in trouble I will Articulate a statement that paints a picture that I look Crystal clear. I am Sure Dusty will have a statement that paints a totally different account. The problem is this. The person in authority will always look the best. Dusty knows this. But I do Believe this. There were wrongs by Dusty. But I will Guarantee there were wrongs by the umpire. It was unfortunate for the kids and the program. I just Hate that the kids returning the next two years are penalized because of the actions of adults. 

[BigEdMo]

Also is it football season. Football refs are Soooooo much better and we do not have these issues in football. Hahahhahahahahhahahaha. 

[tradertwo]

Here's my entire opinion on the matter, then I'm done. I agree with TSSAA's punishment of the program. If a coach "loses it" on the field, assistants should control the dugout and all players on the field if possible before worrying about arguing the call, then separate coach and the official. From the video and the written account, assistant coaches and some players were confrontational towards the officials, and that's not acceptable. 

   Now to the initial call... I don't believe that Dusty would react to the situation as angrily as he did if it went as the ump stated. If he and Dusty had a "polite educational discussion" over the pitchers stance and windup, I'll eat your hat. If the whole truth ever comes out, I'll bet that Dusty was right about the initial situation, and either both, or just the ump escalated it to the point of control being lost. People hardly ever react as angrily as Coach did when they're wrong, and I'd trust Dusty's judgement over the ump's as to who knows the rule.

   Dusty was wrong to act the way he did, no matter the reason. The assistant coaches were also wrong. the players involved should have retreated away from the infield, or remained in the dugout... the "situation" that created the incident however, (in my mind) has to be at least shared with the ump.