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50 minutes ago, sheppy said:

blazer1set,

I believe the total number of football playing schools in Tennessee is about 340.

 

Uh-oh, I was way off...... Okay, so now we need 341 classes.   But actually we should anticipate future growth and just round it up to 367.   This idea would really simplify the playoffs, every school would get their 1st place trophy this way. 

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16 hours ago, cbg said:

Seven classes is still way to many.  Why not just do 3 in D1 and 1 or 2 in D2

I agree, but I thought I'd ease into it. 

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11 hours ago, MSURacer said:

You want my honest answer? It's because my team would stand virtually no shot in that scenario lol

However, I don't think 7 between the two divisions is too many. I actually think it's about right for TN when compared to other states.   

Don't feel bad for expressing your opinion.  Your just like 99.9% of the public in that you want what is best for you and your school not what is best for the sport and organization as a whole.  Everyone is selfish in one way or the other it's just that some people are much more selfish than others.

The below plan would be fair to everyone:

Class A:  Small rural schools and no private, charter, magnet, etc... schools

Class AA:  Public schools and small private schools that do not offer financial aid or work study

Class AAA:  Public schools and small private schools that offer financial aid or work study

Class AAAA:  Large public schools and large private schools that offer financial aid or work study

Edited by cbg

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On 6/10/2019 at 3:54 PM, KWoodroof said:

In my view, there are a handful of issues. First, let's look at the schools, especially in areas like Metro-Nashville. The schools have been consolidated into a few large "centers." They're not necessarily representative of the surrounding area. In my younger days, I lived in Goodlettesville, and we went to Cumberland games (my dad's school), Goodlettsville/Madison/Hendersonville (all nearby), or to the top game in the area. Every public school had a decent turnout from the area. People might not have kids at the school, but they knew local boys on the team. It was a form of community entertainment, and that community doesn't really exist anymore. If you close a community's high school, it guts the community. Games outside the Davidson County area seem to draw better, but their crowds are less than they were in the 70's, because...

There are a lot more options for one's entertainment money. I think back to '75 when I played 9th grade football at MBA. On a Saturday night, we filled the stadium for a championship game against McMurray. In Gallatin, Ryan and Gallatin drew 8,000 (again, 9th graders). Likewise, Cameron and Apollo drew a decent crowd at Antioch, even though the game was meaningless. But consider the alternatives. Locally, there was no NFL team. ABC showed ONE college game, and that Saturday it kicked off at 1:00 PM. There were a limited number of theaters, and at most they had 2 screens. There were 3 television channels, because I'm not counting the educational channel or channel 17, which was an on again/off again thing. It's not really an exaggeration to say that in that time, you could get excited about football, or you could go shoot squirrels.

I try to explain to kids now that in '71, I was one of more than 22,000 people at Vanderbilt to see MBA play Ryan, a game in which the combined enrollments of the 2 schools was below 1,000. 

It's unfortunate, and not just in an "I'm an old man and I think things were better when I was younger," although I am and they were. But even with the issues that have arisen in high school football, it remains a great game. It's still a lot of young men (and women, if we include very athletic cheerleaders and talented bandmembers) who've worked very hard and put on a great show. 

I think you are dead on with the community high school gets more support statement.  You go to small towns across the state and the stands will still usually be full especially if there is a good team at the local high school.  I went to the York/Oneida game in Jamestown the year before last (I graduated from York over 30 years ago and hadn't been to a game in 20 years) and it was like stepping back in time.  It was almost the same as when I played.  It was a pleasant surprise.  I started going again because I had quit watching the NFL over the national anthem issues.  

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1 hour ago, cbg said:

Don't feel bad for expressing your opinion.  Your just like 99.9% of the public in that you want what is best for you and your school not what is best for the sport and organization as a whole.  Everyone is selfish in one way or the other it's just that some people are much more selfish than others.

The below plan would be fair to everyone:

Class A:  Small rural schools and no private, charter, magnet, etc... schools

Class AA:  Public schools and small private schools that do not offer financial aid or work study

Class AAA:  Public schools and small private schools that offer financial aid or work study

Class AAAA:  Large public schools and large private schools that offer financial aid or work study

I disagree.  When schools can pick and choose and offer 30 or 40 financial aid packages to the select few that can help them win, there is a huge disadvantage toward those schools.  They need to drop financial aid and work study to be included.  Otherwise carry on like it is.  

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1 hour ago, dragonrider said:

I think you are dead on with the community high school gets more support statement.  You go to small towns across the state and the stands will still usually be full especially if there is a good team at the local high school.  I went to the York/Oneida game in Jamestown the year before last (I graduated from York over 30 years ago and hadn't been to a game in 20 years) and it was like stepping back in time.  It was almost the same as when I played.  It was a pleasant surprise.  I started going again because I had quit watching the NFL over the national anthem issues.  

High school is must better in my opinion.  Most kids are playing for their community and it is more pure form.  I love the rivalries, the food and the bands.  

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43 minutes ago, GWAVE1 said:

I disagree.  When schools can pick and choose and offer 30 or 40 financial aid packages to the select few that can help them win, there is a huge disadvantage toward those schools.  They need to drop financial aid and work study to be included.  Otherwise carry on like it is.  

I totally understand what you are saying and I know that nothing will ever change in Tennessee.  I do have one question and that is how do the public schools in other states like Florida, Texas, California, Pennsylvania, etc... compete with the private schools that offer financial aid?  As a former public school student athlete all I can say is that I would have been livid if someone told me that I was not good enough to compete with a bunch of soft private school kids.  It's amazing what kids will achieve when you set the bar high and tell them that they should not only reach the bar but exceed all expectations both athletically and academically.  

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2 hours ago, cbg said:

The below plan would be fair to everyone:

Class A:  Small rural schools and no private, charter, magnet, etc... schools

How would you define this? Is Greenback rural? I know it's small. 

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A rural-urban split breakdown was provided by the TSSAA a few years ago. I don't think it was ever looked at too seriously. Some of the schools were clearly classified incorrectly and that probably hurt its chances to ever gain any momentum. 

If you did it that way, you'd have to exclude the largest few rural schools or they'd much larger than some they'd be classified with. You could still have a 3 class rural group and that would take care of magnet, charter, open zoning to an extent, and opponents from urban schools bringing 10 fans to unwanted region matchups. 

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2 hours ago, cbg said:

I totally understand what you are saying and I know that nothing will ever change in Tennessee.  I do have one question and that is how do the public schools in other states like Florida, Texas, California, Pennsylvania, etc... compete with the private schools that offer financial aid?  As a former public school student athlete all I can say is that I would have been livid if someone told me that I was not good enough to compete with a bunch of soft private school kids.  It's amazing what kids will achieve when you set the bar high and tell them that they should not only reach the bar but exceed all expectations both athletically and academically.  

And I too get what you are saying.  Back in my day, we wanted to play those “soft private school” boys.  But they also were usually a little tougher than we wanted to admit and they also did not have the pick of the elites like nowadays.  These financial aid packages must work because look at how many do it now.  Back in the 80’s these teams were allowed 3 players not the 30-40 they have now.  Heck, you can pick an entire team!  

I am not sure how other states handle it.  I have heard the privates in Texas are not as sought after as the huge publics in that state.  Plus you have to figure in population and school size.  Schools with 4000 to 5000 kids could probably do better on a regular basis than one with 1500.  

I am not sure that is the answer anyway.  Sure a large private such as MUS vs a Maryville would be a good draw in the beginning but not sure if it would not fade in a few years.  Especially if it got to be a constant MBA vs MUS or BA vs Catholic or whatever matchup of private’s.  We have already seen that those matchups do not draw as well as the public’s in the state title games.  I am just glad they are over there and we are over here.  I pretend they do not exist and in reality they have no baring on the public’s state title hopes.  

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17 minutes ago, GWAVE1 said:

And I too get what you are saying.  Back in my day, we wanted to play those “soft private school” boys.  But they also were usually a little tougher than we wanted to admit and they also did not have the pick of the elites like nowadays.  These financial aid packages must work because look at how many do it now.  Back in the 80’s these teams were allowed 3 players not the 30-40 they have now.  Heck, you can pick an entire team!  

I am not sure how other states handle it.  I have heard the privates in Texas are not as sought after as the huge publics in that state.  Plus you have to figure in population and school size.  Schools with 4000 to 5000 kids could probably do better on a regular basis than one with 1500.  

I am not sure that is the answer anyway.  Sure a large private such as MUS vs a Maryville would be a good draw in the beginning but not sure if it would not fade in a few years.  Especially if it got to be a constant MBA vs MUS or BA vs Catholic or whatever matchup of private’s.  We have already seen that those matchups do not draw as well as the public’s in the state title games.  I am just glad they are over there and we are over here.  I pretend they do not exist and in reality they have no baring on the public’s state title hopes.  

McCallie had far more than the number allowed back in those days. That helped push the partial split. 

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