PRE SEASON P4P HIGHSCHOOL RANKINGS

[ObserverW]

13 hours ago, durdon said:

11. Aiden Bowers - 8th at both Flonationals and National Prep. Clearly,  he isn’t living off his brothers reputation. 

12. There isn’t another kid that I can find that has multiple National Tourney wins this year but we have a bunch that have placed at major nationals. Brayden Ivy 4th at NHSCA, Kodiak Kennedy 7th at NHSCA, Parker Peterson 7th at NHSCA, Conner Duffy 6th National Prep, Jackson bond 6th National Prep, Emory Taylor 2X national Prep AA 5th this year. Daniel Uhrochuck 8th at NHSCA last year.

I'm sure you did it because you didn't want to be accused of being biased toward your kid, but how do you put A. Bowers over Emory?  Head to head should trump any comparative results.

[NotSurprised]

4 hours ago, ObserverW said:

I'm sure you did it because you didn't want to be accused of being biased toward your kid, but how do you put A. Bowers over Emory?  Head to head should trump any comparative results.

I have got to agree with Observer here, c'mon man give Em some cred. He is better than Aiden, 12 points better based on their last match. Durdon, this is the exact reason you can not only use national results and have to add in some common sense. Every national tournament bracket is unique and should be weighted differently. Skylar and Howard are great wrestlers, but HWT just has an asterisk next to it in my eyes. Do you really think that Coffee and Howard are better at wrestling than Garrison Dendy? Garrison lost two matches last season, one to Braden Palmer, who at worst is tied for P4P number 1 with Reiniche last year, and the other to Shane Van Ness, the best 132 in the country. I will agree that Kagle probably deserves a spot on the list based on results. I just have not personally watched him wrestle enough to have a strong opinion. Garrison would be 3rd if we had kept studs Chittum and Flynn around; I bet they would've looked good in red. Here is my updated list. Thanks for the input everyone.

 

1) GARRISON DENDY- SOPHOMORE 138 (RANKED 19TH BY FLO, WITH WINS OVER THE 4TH AND 5TH RANKED GUYS THIS PRESEASON)

2) HORST- SENIOR 132 (CAN SOMEONE TELL ME IF HE'S EVER LOST A MATCH TO ANOTHER TENNESSEE KID?) HOPE TO SEE HIM AND ISBELL THIS YEAR.

3) TREY MCDANIEL- JUNIOR 113 (CONSISTENT NATIONAL RESULTS)

4) SKYLAR COFFEE- SENIOR HWT (RANKED 7TH BY FLO) I HOPE HIM AND HOWARD COMPETE AGAINST ONE ANOTHER SOMETIME THIS SEASON.

5) JAMES HOWARD- SOPHOMORE HWT (DOUBLE FARGO ALL AMERICAN IN CADETS THIS SUMMER) I GIVE THE EDGE TO COFFEE ON A WHAT HAVE YOU DONE FOR ME LATELY BASIS.

6) DAVID HARPER- SOPHOMORE 195 (FREAKY ATHLETIC UNDERCLASSMAN)

7) Gavin Kagle- JUNIOR 170 (BETTER THAN WHITWORTH AT WRESTLING *ACCORDING TO DURDON*)

8)ALEX WHITWORTH- JUNIOR 160 (ON THE ROAD TO 5 TITLES)

9) GARRET BOWERS- SENIOR 138 (SOME SOLID NATIONAL PLACING, NOT MANY BIG WINS)

10) Ashton Davis- Sophomore 195 (FARGO ALL AMERICAN AND ATHLETIC UNDERCLASSMAN BIG GUY)

[JSamson7]

10 hours ago, durdon said:

Yeah, I’m biased towards the Chattanooga/Bradley county kids that is true but there is a reason why. 
 

I just put together an unbiased list of top kids in the state ranked using National Placements.  This entire list are kids that are now wrestling In the Chattanooga/Bradley county area outside of Coffey and the Bowers boys who grew up in Bradley country as youth btw. 

Now am I actually being biased or am I simply pointing the obvious fact that Chattanooga/Bradley County area is the Mecca of wrestling in this state? 

Having been in this sport way longer than you, I know that Chattanooga has always been at or near the top of the food chain when it comes to TN wrestling. However, that gap is closing real quick to where folks like yourself won't feel the need to flock to what is perceived to be the Mecca of wrestling.

If you asked me who has the deepest pool of young talent in the State today, I'd have to say the mid State might have the rest of the Tennessee beat.  No bias...

[durdon]

5 hours ago, NotSurprised said:

I have got to agree with Observer here, c'mon man give Em some cred. He is better than Aiden, 12 points better based on their last match. Durdon, this is the exact reason you can not only use national results and have to add in some common sense. Every national tournament bracket is unique and should be weighted differently. Skylar and Howard are great wrestlers, but HWT just has an asterisk next to it in my eyes. Do you really think that Coffee and Howard are better at wrestling than Garrison Dendy? Garrison lost two matches last season, one to Braden Palmer, who at worst is tied for P4P number 1 with Reiniche last year, and the other to Shane Van Ness, the best 132 in the country. I will agree that Kagle probably deserves a spot on the list based on results. I just have not personally watched him wrestle enough to have a strong opinion. Garrison would be 3rd if we had kept studs Chittum and Flynn around; I bet they would've looked good in red. Here is my updated list. Thanks for the input everyone.

 

1) GARRISON DENDY- SOPHOMORE 138 (RANKED 19TH BY FLO, WITH WINS OVER THE 4TH AND 5TH RANKED GUYS THIS PRESEASON)

2) HORST- SENIOR 132 (CAN SOMEONE TELL ME IF HE'S EVER LOST A MATCH TO ANOTHER TENNESSEE KID?) HOPE TO SEE HIM AND ISBELL THIS YEAR.

3) TREY MCDANIEL- JUNIOR 113 (CONSISTENT NATIONAL RESULTS)

4) SKYLAR COFFEE- SENIOR HWT (RANKED 7TH BY FLO) I HOPE HIM AND HOWARD COMPETE AGAINST ONE ANOTHER SOMETIME THIS SEASON.

5) JAMES HOWARD- SOPHOMORE HWT (DOUBLE FARGO ALL AMERICAN IN CADETS THIS SUMMER) I GIVE THE EDGE TO COFFEE ON A WHAT HAVE YOU DONE FOR ME LATELY BASIS.

6) DAVID HARPER- SOPHOMORE 195 (FREAKY ATHLETIC UNDERCLASSMAN)

7) Gavin Kagle- JUNIOR 170 (BETTER THAN WHITWORTH AT WRESTLING *ACCORDING TO DURDON*)

8)ALEX WHITWORTH- JUNIOR 160 (ON THE ROAD TO 5 TITLES)

9) GARRET BOWERS- SENIOR 138 (SOME SOLID NATIONAL PLACING, NOT MANY BIG WINS)

10) Ashton Davis- Sophomore 195 (FARGO ALL AMERICAN AND ATHLETIC UNDERCLASSMAN BIG GUY)

Ok, so then why are you even ranking the Heavyweights and other Big wrestlers if you think those kids aren’t really wrestlers?  If we waved a magic wand and Garrison was 285 and wrestled Coffee and Howard, who would win?   We have no idea, nobody does.  It’s all subjective. I’ve already said I think that Noah would win that magic wand competition but that just my subjective option.  I think Noah beats Garrison, Trae, Coffee and all the rest if they are the same weight.  Your magic wand is even more biased and subjective for this because you are biased against the big boys and you have a Baylor slant. 
 

Flo does there P4P mostly based off of who has the biggest upside for College so that’s one way to do it.  And if you do that then it’s Coffey and Howard who would be 1 and 2 cause if both those kids decide to wrestle in college they can go Big Ten or ACC will start and make the nationals. They are both sure bets.  But, TN doesn’t really have but a handful of D1 prospects so I don’t think we can rate our kids that way. 

Because the level of HS wrestling in TN is diluted with the 3 divisions and the depth is extremely weak we can’t use these kids in state results.  The only way to compare these kids is by how well these kids have performed at the top 10 major Nationals that college coaches look at exclusively. Because how these kids preform at major national against their top peers at their weight is something we can directly compare across all weights.  

if we are going to do a legitimate P4P ranking then the only way to do it is by results in National Tourneys. 
 

A couple of notes, 

It’s Cagle with a C and not a K and I never said he was better than Whitworth I said he pinned the kid that beat Whitworth in the Bloodround at NHSCA and finished 5th.  Most people haven’t seen Cagle wrestle.  He grew up in Ga and actually used to wrestle against Whitworth and Jaxon Smith all the time.  Moved to Costa Rica and trained with their national team for 2 years and did some international wrestling, then to Knoxville and won state without any partners in the room and placed at National Prep and NHSCA.  He is now Whitworth’s teammate and training partner and it will be exciting to see how much better those to make each other.  

Yes, Noah has lost a match in Tennessee. He lost to Hunter Boarders 2 years ago. It was a great win for Boarders. Noah and isabell have wrestled multiple times, and it’s never been close.  They won’t wrestle this year or probably ever again.  Isabell was at 45 at Super32 and Noah was at 26.  
 

Garrison lost more than 2 matches last season.   He did not place at the Grappler or Super32 last year.  So from fargo to Fargo he had 6 loses.   He also missed the KC stampede and Prep Slam because he was sick which were the only two really tough tourneys that Baylor went to during the season last year so his TN high school season wasn’t that stout.  This season he took 3rd at Fargo in Greco, 3rd at the Grappler and DNP at Super32. So, he has more losses.  Yes, at the Grappler he beat Alec Martin on the backside but he did lose to him on the frontside so he is 1-1 against the #5 kid.  Now Beating #4 Justin Rivera in sv on the backside at Grappler is legit huge win and great accomplishment.  I’m not saying all this to in anyway degrade Garrison.  I think he will end up being one of the best wrestlers this state has ever produced if not the best. You were just cherry picking his results to match your hypothesis that he should be number 1 so that’s the only reason I even bring it up.  He has as many losses as our other top kids. 
 

Trae Mcdaniel- seriously?  I get your rational why you downgraded the heavy’s.  I don’t agree with it but I get why.  But how in the world can you justify that Trae is not Number 1 on your list?   Two years ago, as first year cadet Trae Double Fargo AA.  From that point on until the next Fargo, Trae had one loss the entire season and that was at NHSCA where he finished 3rd.  So from Fargo to Fargo, Trae had 1 loss and Dendy had 6. And, Trae had a much tougher high school season than the schedule than most of the other kids in state had.  Heck even at state Tournament, Trae had to wrestle Ivy.  This Fargo Trae double AA again finishing 4 and 8th.  Trae was ranked by Flo at different times last year and he has wins against multiple nationally ranked kids too.  Don’t ask me who I don’t follow public school results hardly at all but I’m fairly certain he does. Trae is clearly the best pound for pound little in the state and it’s not even close. 
 

and Yes, if Cooper Flynn and Cody Chittum wrestled for a TN HS then yes Cooper would be #1 and Cody would be #2 and the separation between them and the rest wouldn’t be close.  Cooper is so far beyond any TN kids now it’s ridiculous.  

[durdon]

Here is my Top 10 P4P based off how each one of these kids have performed at major national tournaments against other National kids at their weight.  It’s the only criteria by which we can really determine how these kids in different weights stack up against each other.  

1. Skyler Coffey - NHSCA 5th and Super 32 4th. He was the only TN HS wrestler to place at 32 Ranked 7th by Flo

2.Trae Mcdaniel- 3rd at NHSCA this year and he is the only 2 Time Double Fargo AA we have wrestling in state. 

3. James Howard - NHSCA Champ and Double Fargo AA (3rd in Both)  As a first year cadet too. 

4. Garrison Dendy - 3rd at Fargo in Greco, 3rd at National Prep. Ranked 19 by Flo. 

5. David Harper -  7th at National Prep, Fargo Freestyle 3rd this year, 7th last year

6. Gavin Cagle - National Prep 8th and Nhsca 5th. 

7. Noah Horst - National Prep 4th this year,  2 years ago 8th at Fargo

8. Ashton Davis -  As a 1st year cadet this year, Fargo Freestyle 8th and NHSCA 4th 

9.  Garrett Bowers -Flo Nationals Freestyle 3rd and National Prep 6th this year 

10.  Alex Whitworth - 3X State Champ on his way to 5 and two time National Prep AA 4th this year. 

[PurpleWrestler]

8 minutes ago, durdon said:

Here is my Top 10 P4P based off how each one of these kids have performed at major national tournaments against other National kids at their weight.  It’s the only criteria by which we can really determine how these kids in different weights stack up against each other.  

1. Skyler Coffey - NHSCA 5th and Super 32 4th. He was the only TN HS wrestler to place at 32 Ranked 7th by Flo

2.Trae Mcdaniel- 3rd at NHSCA this year and he is the only 2 Time Double Fargo AA we have wrestling in state. 

3. James Howard - NHSCA Champ and Double Fargo AA (3rd in Both)  As a first year cadet too. 

4. Garrison Dendy - 3rd at Fargo in Greco, 3rd at National Prep. Ranked 19 by Flo. 

5. David Harper -  7th at National Prep, Fargo Freestyle 3rd this year, 7th last year

6. Gavin Cagle - National Prep 8th and Nhsca 5th. 

7. Noah Horst - National Prep 4th this year,  2 years ago 8th at Fargo

8. Ashton Davis -  As a 1st year cadet this year, Fargo Freestyle 8th and NHSCA 4th 

9.  Garrett Bowers -Flo Nationals Freestyle 3rd and National Prep 6th this year 

10.  Alex Whitworth - 3X State Champ on his way to 5 and two time National Prep AA 4th this year. 

All of ya'll need to get off that Chatt weed, or what ever it is your smoking. 

First, how any one puts Bowers and Whitworth at the bottom is way beyond me. Last year everyone had Palmer at the top of the list, only one to beat him in TN? Whitworth. The kid has teched his way through this state, and will continue to do so. The others better just be glad they aren't in his class. 

And there is one Big name that isn't even being mentioned. So how you call this a LB for LB ranking is insane. Just call it "these are my favorites to watch". 

[durdon]

1 minute ago, PurpleWrestler said:

All of ya'll need to get off that Chatt weed, or what ever it is your smoking. 

First, how any one puts Bowers and Whitworth at the bottom is way beyond me. Last year everyone had Palmer at the top of the list, only one to beat him in TN? Whitworth. The kid has teched his way through this state, and will continue to do so. The others better just be glad they aren't in his class. 

And there is one Big name that isn't even being mentioned. So how you call this a LB for LB ranking is insane. Just call it "these are my favorites to watch". 

mine is based off National Placements and not who I like to watch.  

Who else would you put on the list if it’s not Chattanooga kids?  And

who is the big name we missing?  
Whitworth is down on the bottom because he only has one major National Placement in the past year. Mostly cause he has been hurt. 
And just FYI, Whitworth beat Palmer 2 years ago and not last year.  

[udahman]

just curious. how exaclty is cagle wrestling for mccallie  a private school. after wrestling for cak a private school without sitting a year.  dont give me that bull about moving or whatever when there family owns a house in knoxville.  do we bend the rules for rich kids now. just because they made a mistake and realize he doesnt have practice partners i mean really??? where was this for the kids in the last couple of years. you know. the kids that were’nt prevy to money.  just asking for a friend??????

[PurpleWrestler]

30 minutes ago, durdon said:

mine is based off National Placements and not who I like to watch.  

Who else would you put on the list if it’s not Chattanooga kids?  And

who is the big name we missing?  
Whitworth is down on the bottom because he only has one major National Placement in the past year. Mostly cause he has been hurt. 
And just FYI, Whitworth beat Palmer 2 years ago and not last year.  

Ok, but National placements help, but it can't be the main criteria for LB 4 LB in TN. A ton of national stuff often has to do with brackets, and seeding. So I don't always give that total weight. When we look at the best in TN, Whitworth has proven his is top 2. No he hasn't had success lately at a national level, but match him up against anyone in TN, and he proves it there. (and you are right, my bad about when he beat Palmer, but still).  

Along with looking at national stuff, you forget age division play a HUGE role in how they do. Dendy did well, but that was at Cadets. G. Bowers was in Juniors, Not taking anything away from his accomplishments, but that does not put him at #1 in TN. Still will say Whitworth is tops in TN right now. 

And the name you left off is Wooten. Just because he doesn't wrestle year round, does not mean anyone wants to match up with him this year. 46 pins in one season, at some of the toughest tournaments in the country, yeah, he makes my list for sure.

[durdon]

ok my phones been blowing up tonight. After debating this with some coaches and other wrestling dads, I’m making some changes.  

I moved Howard to #2.  Winning NHSCA and placing 3rd in both styles at Fargo is better than Trae’s 3rd at NHSCA and his Fargo placements. I moved Ashton Davis up 2 spots. His Fargo and Nhsca placements are better than cagle and Noah’s.  I jumped Whitworth over Garrett Bowers too.  4th at preps is better than 6th and the head to head.  Whitworth has beaten Bowers twice now. 
 

Here is the new P4P list!
 

1. Skyler Coffey - NHSCA 5th and Super 32 4th. He was the only TN HS wrestler to place at 32 Ranked 7th by Flo

2. James Howard - NHSCA Champ and Double Fargo AA (3rd in Both)  As a first year cadet too

3. Trae Mcdaniel- 3rd at NHSCA this year and he is the only 2 Time Double Fargo AA we have wrestling in state. 

. 
4. Garrison Dendy - 3rd at Fargo in Greco, 3rd at National Prep. Ranked 19 by Flo. 

5. David Harper -  7th at National Prep, Fargo Freestyle 3rd this year, 7th last year
 

6.  Ashton Davis -  As a 1st year cadet this year, Fargo Freestyle 8th and NHSCA 4th 

 7. Gavin Cagle - National Prep 8th and Nhsca 5th. 

8.  Noah Horst - National Prep 4th this year,  2 years ago 8th at Fargo

 

9. Alex Whitworth - 3X State Champ on his way to 5 and two time National Prep AA 4th this year. 

10.  Garrett Bowers -Flo Nationals Freestyle 3rd and National Prep 6th this year 

 

[SportsTNFan]

4 hours ago, durdon said:

Ok, so then why are you even ranking the Heavyweights and other Big wrestlers if you think those kids aren’t really wrestlers?  If we waved a magic wand and Garrison was 285 and wrestled Coffee and Howard, who would win?   We have no idea, nobody does.  It’s all subjective. I’ve already said I think that Noah would win that magic wand competition but that just my subjective option.  I think Noah beats Garrison, Trae, Coffee and all the rest if they are the same weight.  Your magic wand is even more biased and subjective for this because you are biased against the big boys and you have a Baylor slant. 
 

Flo does there P4P mostly based off of who has the biggest upside for College so that’s one way to do it.  And if you do that then it’s Coffey and Howard who would be 1 and 2 cause if both those kids decide to wrestle in college they can go Big Ten or ACC will start and make the nationals. They are both sure bets.  But, TN doesn’t really have but a handful of D1 prospects so I don’t think we can rate our kids that way. 

Because the level of HS wrestling in TN is diluted with the 3 divisions and the depth is extremely weak we can’t use these kids in state results.  The only way to compare these kids is by how well these kids have performed at the top 10 major Nationals that college coaches look at exclusively. Because how these kids preform at major national against their top peers at their weight is something we can directly compare across all weights.  

if we are going to do a legitimate P4P ranking then the only way to do it is by results in National Tourneys. 
 

A couple of notes, 

It’s Cagle with a C and not a K and I never said he was better than Whitworth I said he pinned the kid that beat Whitworth in the Bloodround at NHSCA and finished 5th.  Most people haven’t seen Cagle wrestle.  He grew up in Ga and actually used to wrestle against Whitworth and Jaxon Smith all the time.  Moved to Costa Rica and trained with their national team for 2 years and did some international wrestling, then to Knoxville and won state without any partners in the room and placed at National Prep and NHSCA.  He is now Whitworth’s teammate and training partner and it will be exciting to see how much better those to make each other.  

Yes, Noah has lost a match in Tennessee. He lost to Hunter Boarders 2 years ago. It was a great win for Boarders. Noah and isabell have wrestled multiple times, and it’s never been close.  They won’t wrestle this year or probably ever again.  Isabell was at 45 at Super32 and Noah was at 26.  
 

Garrison lost more than 2 matches last season.   He did not place at the Grappler or Super32 last year.  So from fargo to Fargo he had 6 loses.   He also missed the KC stampede and Prep Slam because he was sick which were the only two really tough tourneys that Baylor went to during the season last year so his TN high school season wasn’t that stout.  This season he took 3rd at Fargo in Greco, 3rd at the Grappler and DNP at Super32. So, he has more losses.  Yes, at the Grappler he beat Alec Martin on the backside but he did lose to him on the frontside so he is 1-1 against the #5 kid.  Now Beating #4 Justin Rivera in sv on the backside at Grappler is legit huge win and great accomplishment.  I’m not saying all this to in anyway degrade Garrison.  I think he will end up being one of the best wrestlers this state has ever produced if not the best. You were just cherry picking his results to match your hypothesis that he should be number 1 so that’s the only reason I even bring it up.  He has as many losses as our other top kids. 
 

Trae Mcdaniel- seriously?  I get your rational why you downgraded the heavy’s.  I don’t agree with it but I get why.  But how in the world can you justify that Trae is not Number 1 on your list?   Two years ago, as first year cadet Trae Double Fargo AA.  From that point on until the next Fargo, Trae had one loss the entire season and that was at NHSCA where he finished 3rd.  So from Fargo to Fargo, Trae had 1 loss and Dendy had 6. And, Trae had a much tougher high school season than the schedule than most of the other kids in state had.  Heck even at state Tournament, Trae had to wrestle Ivy.  This Fargo Trae double AA again finishing 4 and 8th.  Trae was ranked by Flo at different times last year and he has wins against multiple nationally ranked kids too.  Don’t ask me who I don’t follow public school results hardly at all but I’m fairly certain he does. Trae is clearly the best pound for pound little in the state and it’s not even close. 
 

and Yes, if Cooper Flynn and Cody Chittum wrestled for a TN HS then yes Cooper would be #1 and Cody would be #2 and the separation between them and the rest wouldn’t be close.  Cooper is so far beyond any TN kids now it’s ridiculous.  

I have been out of the loop, but to clarify, Cagle who won state last season transferred to McCallie and eligible this season? 

[durdon]

25 minutes ago, FRHSIrishVol said:

I have been out of the loop, but to clarify, Cagle who won state last season transferred to McCallie and eligible this season? 

If you went to the Father Ryan football last Friday against McCallie, you would have seen Cagle catching a ton of catches and scoring a few times. So yes, the Cagle family has moved to Chattanooga and Gavin is a student at McCallie and he will wrestle 170 this year.