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SouthTowner: This That and the Other


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4 hours ago, CougarDadx2 said:

Here is a snip out of the Guv's shutdown order - is the reasoning behind this order troubling to anyone else? I guess it's not martial law if you call it something else.

“We need you to understand that staying home is not an option, it is a requirement,” said Lee.

I have some issues with it. First, we need to have caution and precaution right now. I agree that we need to keep our distance from people and limit where we go and what we do. But it is not for the government to force upon us, nor is it for the government to shed the Constitution for 'our own good.' As a matter of fact, the founders laid it out so that the government couldn't tell us what was for our own good but to lay out our rights. Rights that didn't come from government but  were given to man from higher above. 

If we give up these rights just for now, will we get them back? Certain rights were taken during the Great Depression and both World Wars and most were given back. Some were not. It happened again after 9/11 when president Bush started a program of spying on our calls and emails. He said this would be given up but for now was a matter of our own security. These measures were important, I agree, but they were not given up. It still goes on. 

With this requirement by the Governor, one that people are urging the President to mandate as well, it feels like we are willingly - although slowly - allowing room for the republic to turn towards tyranny. Something the founders tried to prevent. I know that isn't the case here. But what is to say that sometime down the road something else happens, and you know something else will. What is to prevent the government from taking more and more rights and not giving them back? When we allow a little here, what is to prevent them from taking a little more there? All for our own good of course.

/Soapbox

I do think though that this is a tricky situation when you do have people that do not take cautions and put others at risk. How do you stop it, but not infringe?

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

- Benjamin Franklin

Edited by The Drunken Sailor
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8 minutes ago, The Drunken Sailor said:

I have some issues with it. First, we need to have caution and precaution right now. I agree that we need to keep our distance from people and limit where we go and what we do. But it is not for the government to force upon us, nor is it for the government to shed the Constitution for 'our own good.' As a matter of fact, the founders laid it out so that the government couldn't tell us what was for our own good but to lay out our rights. Rights that didn't come from government but  were given to man from higher above. 

If we give up these rights just for now, will we get them back? Certain rights were taken during the Great Depression and both World Wars and most were given back. Some were not. It happened again after 9/11 when president Bush started a program of spying on our calls and emails. He said this would be given up but for now was a matter of our own security. These measures were important, I agree, but they were not given up. It still goes on. 

With this requirement by the Governor, one that people are urging the President to mandate as well, it feels like we are willingly - although slowly - allowing room for the republic to turn towards tyranny. Something the founders tried to prevent. I know that isn't the case here. But what is to say that sometime down the road something else happens, and you know something else will. What is to prevent the government from taking more and more rights and not giving them back? When we allow a little here, what is to prevent them from taking a little more there? All for our own good of course.

/Soapbox

I do think though that this is a tricky situation when you do have people that do not take cautions and put others at risk. How do you stop it, but not infringe?

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

- Benjamin Franklin

Nailed it!

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Yes he nailed it.

As I said on another thread, they've locked up the football fields so you can't run and throw on govt property because life is so precious ...but you can dang sure schedule an abortion in a lot of places! 

Someone throw the stat out here for projected virus deaths in the US in 3 months vs the number of murders by abortion in the same amount of time. We got this all messed up!

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12 minutes ago, uknoit2 said:

Yes he nailed it.

As I said on another thread, they've locked up the football fields so you can't run and throw on govt property because life is so precious ...but you can dang sure schedule an abortion in a lot of places! 

Someone throw the stat out here for projected virus deaths in the US in 3 months vs the number of murders by abortion in the same amount of time. We got this all messed up!

Some areas are letting car thieves and rapists go while threatening to put people in jail for checking on close friends and family as well as arresting pastors for holding church services even in a safe manor.

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3 hours ago, uknoit2 said:

Yes he nailed it.

As I said on another thread, they've locked up the football fields so you can't run and throw on govt property because life is so precious ...but you can dang sure schedule an abortion in a lot of places! 

Someone throw the stat out here for projected virus deaths in the US in 3 months vs the number of murders by abortion in the same amount of time. We got this all messed up!

So far there have been 8,492 deaths in the us from Coronavirus. The latest abortion numbers I found via a quick search were from 2017. Right at 862,000 abortions. We didn’t shut down the country for that. Staggering difference. 

Edited by BIGPURPLEMACHINE
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8 hours ago, BIGPURPLEMACHINE said:

So far there have been 8,492 deaths in the us from Coronavirus. The latest abortion numbers I found via a quick search were from 2017. Right at 862,000 abortions. We didn’t shut down the country for that. Staggering difference. 

Sad situation this country's in pal 

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I'm bored and you are a great person so let's poke the bear with a pointed stick.

You are correct but are presenting only part of the issue and that makes your thoughts appear out of context with the responsibilities of the US Gov’t.  What you are espousing is from the roots of American democracy.  These roots spawned from documents like the Magna Carta, the petition of Rights, the English Bill of Rights and the Virginia Bill of Rights.

You also have to examine the writings of Philosophers Thomas Hobbs, John Locke, and Jean-Jacques Rousseau as well as a handful of others.  Why you may ask….because the people that wrote our Constitution that limited government power did.  There is this concept in government based through Federalist principles called the Social Contract.

A Social Contract is basically an agreement between members of the community and the Sovereign or the government.  OK SO WHAT!  Well in laymans terms we the people agree to give up some of our power or freedom in exchange for government services and protection.  In the US Constitution’s Preamble it is written that we agree to this Constitution for several reasons but the one that applies here is to promote the General Welfare.  Welfare in its original intent in 1787 was meant as health, happiness, or prosperity; well-being.  The same way that the Government sets food standards so you cannot be sold poisoned food the Government can set standards of behavior.

Your observations in absolution are not new. In June 1919 the Harvard Law Review published an article by legal philosopher Zechariah Chafee, Jr. titled “Freedom of Speech in War Time” The argument about rights and freedom was analogized by that of the man who was arrested for swinging his arms and hitting another in the nose, and asked the judge if he did not have a right to swing his arms in a free country. The Judge simply stated “Your right to swing your arms ends just where the other man’s nose begins.”  Your right to move about freely during a time of National emergency simply isn’t an entitlement and in fact ends because other people are potentially affected.  You surrender that ability in exchange for the Government assisting with the health of all Americans and to restore Friday night football sooner rather than later.  I just had to try and steer this back to football somehow.

In Conclusion don’t tug on Superman’s cape, Never shoot a larger caliber target with a small caliber round, and never blitz the backside of a flexbone offense.

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12 hours ago, uknoit2 said:

Yes he nailed it.

As I said on another thread, they've locked up the football fields so you can't run and throw on govt property because life is so precious ...but you can dang sure schedule an abortion in a lot of places! 

Someone throw the stat out here for projected virus deaths in the US in 3 months vs the number of murders by abortion in the same amount of time. We got this all messed up!

I don't have the numbers, but some states have  now declared abortion a "necessary medical procedure." 

Edited by The Drunken Sailor
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10 minutes ago, The Drunken Sailor said:

I don't have the numbers, but some states have  now declared abortion a "necessary medical procedure." 

Yea I saw that crap too...and people out protesting, shoulder to shoulder, to have it so. Wheres the social distancing there? SMH 

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