Tennessee....Shot Clock or Not?

[tradertwo]

On 1/14/2020 at 12:33 PM, warmachine7954 said:

The shot clock was introduced because the team that was ahead just stalled the whole 4th quarter in the NBA. Spectators didn't like that so they lost money.

High school basketball is about more than spectators and money. It's about teaching the game properly. I'm sorry but if you can't come out and guard a team that is stalling you don't get a chance to win. 

This year is a prime example of how AAU has "evolved" the game in a negative way. College ball weak, this years draft is weak, the NBA isn't growing like it should. The future superstars of the league are not American. High school baketball has kids dominating on athletisicm and not skill or a combination. 

A shot clock costs up front, then cost to add another official to run it, and then makes teams force a shot instead of running an offense. Stalling doesn't happen nearly as much as people want to believe. 

When I coached in South Korea we had to us a shot clock and it was garbage. Our team was bigger, more athletic, and better than almost every team in our league. Our coach knew that so our kids didn't have to guard for very long as a unit because we knew that other team had to shot the ball every 40 seconds regardless of the situation. It didn't make for good games unless the two teams that were playing shot it quick anyway. In one instance it worked if two teams could shoot well. However, if you were a poor shooting team then you had to get a layup or take a shot that you didn't want in 30-40 secs. 

What if you play a pressing team? 7-8 seconds in the back court and you've lost even more time off the clock in the half court. 

There is already too much 1-on-1 in games now because the kids emulate the NBA game. There is much more to the game of basketball than ooh's and aahh's from the crowd and money from gates. The state of TN has already given the soul of the game away by restricting high school coaches from practicing wiht they're kids and giving way to AAU

Ridgeway did it to Dyer County back in 2002. DC wouldn't come out of the match-up zone. Ridgeway held the ball and made them come out. DC couldn't guard very well man-to-man. (because DC played the Match-up 99.9% of the time. I played at DC a few years before this) DC got beat. 

More eloquently and detailed than I will go but exactly right.

Boundaries on all sides, two teams of five players, two goals, and one set of officials... everything above and beyond that is talent and strategy. If a team who is outmatched in talent, utilizes strategy to win, then what's wrong with that? In it's purest form, basketball is a team sport where discipline, teamwork, and strategy beats pure athleticism most of the time... lets keep it that way.

[Observation]

13 hours ago, tradertwo said:

More eloquently and detailed than I will go but exactly right.

Boundaries on all sides, two teams of five players, two goals, and one set of officials... everything above and beyond that is talent and strategy. If a team who is outmatched in talent, utilizes strategy to win, then what's wrong with that? In it's purest form, basketball is a team sport where discipline, teamwork, and strategy beats pure athleticism most of the time... lets keep it that way.

I agree completely on this. TSSAA needs to fix the classification issue before worrying about shot clocks. Shot clock will just create more bad basketball. 

[Bearettesalltheway]

Dedinitely. The idea of basketball is to score not hold the ball forever only to get foiled after 2 minutes. 40 seconds is good. Speeds the game up. Could make the game more interesting. Of it doesnt work they could always get rid of it the following season

[Moonshiner]

On ‎2‎/‎4‎/‎2020 at 8:31 PM, Bearettesalltheway said:

Dedinitely. The idea of basketball is to score not hold the ball forever only to get foiled after 2 minutes. 40 seconds is good. Speeds the game up. Could make the game more interesting. Of it doesnt work they could always get rid of it the following season

More to it than that. Part of the idea to keep the other team from scoring.  The idea of HS basket is teamwork, teaching the game,  strategy, and winning or rather giving the kids a chance of winning. Speeding the game up isn't necessarily good for HS basketball. Most teams aren't patient  enough to run the offense anyway. Teams that are  way over matched by speed and size will be forced to jack up shots they wouldn't normally take, playing into the other teams hand,  Blowouts aren't interesting either. How bout this,  if the a team is holding the ball......might want to try something different on defense.  What's the difference between  holding the ball with a 10 point lead with 2-3 minutes left in the game compared to 1:30 - 2:00  to run a set play.     

[ecu]

Probably less than 1% of all possessions are longer than 30 seconds. Why change ?

[old24eagle]

On 2/1/2020 at 9:14 AM, FBfan26 said:

Every disagreement its always about the small schools. Most small schools got the money but just TIGHT with it lol

You're VERY wrong about this. There may be some small schools like that but most of us  get ZERO money from the school system and use all of the money made at gates and concessions to pay officials, buy unis , balls and other equipment necessary just to keep the program going, and at the end of the season after our largest fundraiser and all the bills are paid if we still have ANY money in the account it has been a good season! You are correct in saying most disagreements are with the small schools however. Most rules and regulations are legislated by members of larger schools and work more in favor of larger schools. While that is frustrating I understand why...majority rules is as fair as you can make it.

[99Guy]

Folks you all do realize that: A)most high school officials also officiate small college games as well so no extra training or special refs would be needed, B)there would be no need for a "4th official" as some have posted, the shot clock operator literally would be responsible for 2 reset buttons. If they can train someone in the school to do the game clock (which is way more complicated) I'm sure they can manage a person to hit 1 of 2 buttons when the ball hits the rim, C)more money?? Most places dont pay table workers as is and are volunteers or school workers. The only extra cost is the 1 time buying of the actual shot clock & accessories. It wont break the bank. All these excuses are really poor and easily debunked, most are just scared if the shot clock comes, coaches will actually have to coach and actually use strategy. Holding the ball for minutes on end is not coaching and certainly isnt any strategy, its disrespectful to the game & tells their players they dont think they are good enough.

Edited February 14, 2020 by 99Guy
Misspelled word

[tradertwo]

19 hours ago, 99Guy said:

Folks you all do realize that: A)most high school officials also officiate small college games as well so no extra training or special refs would be needed, B)there would be no need for a "4th official" as some have posted, the shot clock operator literally would be responsible for 2 reset buttons. If they can train someone in the school to do the game clock (which is way more complicated) I'm sure they can manage a person to hit 1 of 2 buttons when the ball hits the rim, C)more money?? Most places dont pay table workers as is and are volunteers or school workers. The only extra cost is the 1 time buying of the actual shot clock & accessories. It wont break the bank. All these excuses are really poor and easily debunked, most are just scared if the shot clock comes, coaches will actually have to coach and actually use strategy. Holding the ball for minutes on end is not coaching and certainly isnt any strategy, its disrespectful to the game & tells their players they dont think they are good enough.

Nope... just difference of opinion.

My post includes none of the problems nor any "fixes" that you list. My preference for no shot clock is simply a contradiction of your opinion that coaching and strategy is related to faster play, more shot attempts, and mandatorily speeding up the game, and has no bearing on cost or added staff.

   In order to defense the tactic of "Holding the ball for minutes on end", you only have to have a player in close enough proximity to begin the five second count. In my opinion, there's much more strategy and discipline (coaching) involved in running a half court offense than there is in running the floor and jacking up shots, even if the main objective is only to retain possession of the ball... likewise, there's also more to defending that offense than the run and gun style that a shot clock favors.

[old24eagle]

On 2/14/2020 at 2:46 AM, 99Guy said:

Folks you all do realize that: A)most high school officials also officiate small college games as well so no extra training or special refs would be needed, B)there would be no need for a "4th official" as some have posted, the shot clock operator literally would be responsible for 2 reset buttons. If they can train someone in the school to do the game clock (which is way more complicated) I'm sure they can manage a person to hit 1 of 2 buttons when the ball hits the rim, C)more money?? Most places dont pay table workers as is and are volunteers or school workers. The only extra cost is the 1 time buying of the actual shot clock & accessories. It wont break the bank. All these excuses are really poor and easily debunked, most are just scared if the shot clock comes, coaches will actually have to coach and actually use strategy. Holding the ball for minutes on end is not coaching and certainly isnt any strategy, its disrespectful to the game & tells their players they dont think they are good enough.

You ever been to a ball game at Clinch High School? I bet you haven't ...either way I have been to several and there has NEVER been enough money come in the gate to pay the officials for the game THAT night! I'm not knocking Clinch but they would never make enough gate or concessions money to buy extra.

Also , can you imagine uncle jim bob running the shot clock and not resetting it at a crucial time in a big time game! 

This is a poor uninformed take on small school sports IMO.

[crazzyness]

High school basketball is the worst (fundamental wise) that it's ever been. Kids come into the 9th grade and can barely advance the ball while being pressured without carrying, traveling, illegal dribbling, it any combination of the three. Most have no clue how to run an offense. A shot clock would be the detrimental to the development of high school basketball players in this state. 

 

On the other side, folks, y'all don't want BillyBob from the crowd running the shot clock. The game clock gets screwed up multiple times a game, but barely any one notices because the game clock only DIRECTLY impacts one possession a period. A shot clock directly impacts every single possession. Imagine 10 or 12 possessions being screwed up a game directly by the shot clock operator. You would need a trained/paid shot clock operator for it to work. A lot of schools don't have the money for that (thats not taking account Of actually having to purchase install the equipment) and, quite frankly, we don't have the bodies to do it either.

[Khall555]

On 2/4/2020 at 8:31 PM, Bearettesalltheway said:

Dedinitely. The idea of basketball is to score not hold the ball forever only to get foiled after 2 minutes. 40 seconds is good. Speeds the game up. Could make the game more interesting. Of it doesnt work they could always get rid of it the following season

I have attended HS basketball games since 1990 by estimation between 600-700 games between both boys and girls. In that time I have seen less than 5 games where a team held the ball and stalled the game for the entire game. It’s very rare to see. Also in that time I have seen a massive amount of blowouts and mismatches where you feel bad for the kids getting embarrassed. A shot clock would make blowout more likely and larger and hold no value to sportsmanship  IMO. Forcing bad teams to take bad shots would create more blowouts. 

 

If if you want to watch basketball with a shot clock, and where athleticism dominates, walking and carrying the ball is normal watch the NBA. 

Edited February 19, 2020 by Khall555

[Bobcats83]

Shot clock in high school is ridiculous.  Patience on offense often levels the playing field for teams with less talent.  It creates strategic adjustments for the more talented team and shows great discipline for the team slowing it down.  

The team with more talent has the choice to pressure their opponent or sit back and let them be patient.  Coaches have to coach more at high school level without a shot clock than they would with one.    Shot clock would only lead to a ton of bad shots and more blow outs.

The game is for the kids, not us people watching.